Jon Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 There's always excitement when signing players, it's just the novelty factor of having a new face around. Like last summer, all the headlines screamed "seven new players" when in reality we got a reserve keeper, an over the hill striker, a permanently injured left midfielder, a fat left back, a mediocre right back and some great tart who falls over a lot! an excellent summary of TPMWNMNBM's transfer dealings the summer before the one just gone, Mart :winkold: strange that out of the infamous Secret Seven, only one is arguably still a first team regular starter with a fully fit 11 (Hughes). Hopefully he won't be after january. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 funniest article i have read in a long time... either a wind up or.. well, i already have a yellow... it does however, go some way to explain the authors views on certain things.. if he is expecting instant success, then it goes without saying that he would be disappointed with the way things are going on the pitch... ignoring the mess we were in, expecting the manager to wave a magic wand, yada yada, is pure short term thinking, and as mentioned above, is more the kind of thinking that happened under the old regime.... most villa fans i know and speak to however, arent as blinkered and unrealistic as a small minority that have let their opinions be known... most i have spoken to, know that we cant expect instant success, and building up the squad, and making changes all throughout the club, will take time.. thats not an unreasonable response from realistic fans who know the issues we faced, how far we had fallen, etc... improvement will take time and anyone expecting instant success, will be disappointed and then have unrealistic views on the club and the people within the club... wonder if they will eat a rather large slice of humble pie, with a side salad of humility if the long term view is proven to be the correct one? somehow i doubt that tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwyllum18 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 :shock: Is this a wind-up or do you really live beneath the worlds biggest, wettest, darkest cloud in a state of constant tension and unhappiness? After reading the article I thought "there is just no pleasing some people". I'm going to be optimistic despite you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Right now, I am happy to sit back and trust the people running the club to get it right. To date they have shown in every regard that they know what needs to be done to get it right and their respective track records suggests they have the ability to fulfill that vision. After 25 years of Ellis, this is enough for me. You can call that the prozac approach, I will call it a realistic level of expectation, a realisitic level of hope, a realistic level of dreaming Give me organic growth, steady and certain and above all sustainable. I want my 10 year old son to be watching Villa at the top of the tree when he is my age. This is more important to me than watching Villa top of the tree tomorrow, and back in the crap again the day after, with my son supporting some crap has been club, as I have been for a long time. I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy In total agreement Peter, once again a voice of common sense and reason. Sometimes, Malcolm submits controversial arguments against the general concensus and there's nothing wrong with that, if it promotes a good debate without rancour. In this instance though, Malcolm is well out of step with the majority. Only time will tell who's right. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 There's always excitement when signing players, it's just the novelty factor of having a new face around. Like last summer, all the headlines screamed "seven new players" when in reality we got a reserve keeper, an over the hill striker, a permanently injured left midfielder, a fat left back, a mediocre right back and some great tart who falls over a lot! One could argue MON is heading the same way with his transfers. 2/3 right so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 There's always excitement when signing players, it's just the novelty factor of having a new face around. Like last summer, all the headlines screamed "seven new players" when in reality we got a reserve keeper, an over the hill striker, a permanently injured left midfielder, a fat left back, a mediocre right back and some great tart who falls over a lot! One could argue MON is heading the same way with his transfers. 2/3 right so far. TRL you're not seriously comparing MON's firts signings with DOL's are you? MON didn't have the comfort factor of a few weeks to bring in new players did he, plus Ellis was still in control of the money and even then, tried to screw up what MON wanted to do. Given that situation, you can't compare it with DOL. Sutton and Agathe were free agents, were available outside the window and known quantities to MON, also He wanted to retain Milner, but Fat Freddy scuppered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 There's always excitement when signing players, it's just the novelty factor of having a new face around. Like last summer, all the headlines screamed "seven new players" when in reality we got a reserve keeper, an over the hill striker, a permanently injured left midfielder, a fat left back, a mediocre right back and some great tart who falls over a lot! One could argue MON is heading the same way with his transfers. 2/3 right so far. TRL you're not seriously comparing MON's firts signings with DOL's are you? MON didn't have the comfort factor of a few weeks to bring in new players did he, plus Ellis was still in control of the money and even then, tried to screw up what MON wanted to do. Given that situation, you can't compare it with DOL. Sutton and Agathe were free agents, were available outside the window and known quantities to MON, also He wanted to retain Milner, but Fat Freddy scuppered that. indeed AinS TRL is way wide of the mark here IMO. :? He has IMHO purchased a player far superior to anything TPMWNMNBM purchased during his time here. His free "stop gap" acquisitions during the closed transfer window were just that: FREE signings OUTSIDE of the window. I cannot see any sort of valid comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 His failure to sign more people during the transfer window or have a backup for the Milner deal, shouldnt affect the Agathe and Sutton signings. Signings are signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 TRL, You seem to be totally ignoring the reality of the situation and timing. Ellis still in charge initially and even sticking his oar in until RL promised to underwrite the Petrov deal. As far as having a plan B for Mlner, he wasn't at the club long enough to be making those judgements or knowing how much money RL would make available, and Milner was again a known quantity and therefore a less risk buy, as well as someone who wanted to stay at B6. He was also at a price that MON knew there was money for. Yes Sutton & Agathe were signing, but clearly stated as squad fillers and not long term signings, so again not comparable to DOL's. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 You seem to be totally ignoring the reality of the situation and timing. Id say you are the ones, refusing to absorb some reality. Its not all fantastic, some its, but not all. You dont think DOL fancied money for some better signings? Even DOL could see shite players, when he wanted to. Its a matter of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted November 3, 2006 VT Supporter Share Posted November 3, 2006 seriously guys to be honest after finishing 16th last season can we really expect to finish in the top 6? look at it this way : last year was a disaster and the players and staff showed how truely poor they were the new manager and owner came in too late to revamp the squad before start of season so at the start of the season plans were put in place to "start building the house" so to speak in order to build a house you need to build foundations - training ground, good PR etc we needed to give the club a face lift and increase our presence in the world market at most of all we needed to increase the desirability of the club as noone would have wanted to join a failing prem side like us The foundations have still not been laid we are still working on that and i would say it will be next season at least before we as a club are ready to start attracting the kind of players that we want/need i think the people calling for massive world class signings have been playing FM/CM for too long as realitically clubs with our current reputation just dont get players like that unless dodgy dealings are involved (you know of the OTHER claret and blues) realistically we will finish top 10 this season and assuming att the background work is finished by then we will buy in summer next season we can start thiunking about europe which will then allow us to bring in higher quality players season 3 will then allow for qualification to champions league and who knows where we can go from there as you can see building the infrastructure is more important at this fledgling stage of the revolution PLEASE BE PATIENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Why not? DOL managed it his first season, without the massive moral boost of our chairman finally pissing off. And we got MON, the allmighty fantastic. Why shouldnt we expect a position around 6th place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 TRL you know as well as anyone that I didnt see eye to eye with the DOL out at any cost campaign that some on here waged. After saying that though the timescales that MON has had and just as importantly the timescales that Lerner and the new backroom regime have had to assess the real turmoil that was at the club meant that sufficient time wasn't there to invest wisely in the right players. (Note: I still do think that MON is a better manager than DOL and Lerner is far better than Ellis) See from MON's comments that we are not going to go on a Chelski type mass signing spree but probably on bringing in players that will improve the squad but not cost the earth. To do that you have to assess whats here and just as importantly whats available at the right price. In addition to back that up the infrastructure that will help fund these signings has to be put in place. For me I think we can judge one way or another how things have gone post the Jan transfer window. In terms of how well we do this year then I suppose top 10 will have to be accepted as being good, below that probably should be regarded as poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 You cannot compare single seasons in isolation. It's unfair. a large part of a managers job is to build a good and sustainable future. Also, not that I think this would be fair either, but it would be more relevant to compare the number of points acheived in a season as this is entirely within a clubs control where as where you finish is dependent on that and the performance of other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Why not? DOL managed it his first season, without the massive moral boost of our chairman finally pissing off. And we got MON, the allmighty fantastic. Why shouldnt we expect a position around 6th place? TRL, You've changed the direction of your argument, first it was about signings, now its about your expectations of where we will finish. As others have said, DOL's first season was always thought of as Villa overachieving and some of the other clubs under performing. Since then clubs other than the big 4 have enhanced their squads with considerable spending so the competition could now be said to be greater. Villa may well be a top 6 finisher, but I would be happy with 8th to 10th, seeing it as a major improvement from where DOL and Ellis left us and anything better than this would be great. It seems however, that you have an axe to grind about MON for whatever reason. Time will prove whether MON is "the almighty fantastic" you have called him, but one thing is sure, the majority of fans are certainly glad we have him instead of DOL. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Once again you are wrong. I answered to this. seriously guys to be honest after finishing 16th last season can we really expect to finish in the top 6? Now, how come me having some opinions on MON or DOL, make me having a problem with MON? Thats just silly, and once again people turn to this, when they cant argue the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 AVFCinSpain - See I disagree slightly with you in that post as you seem to imply that its only a DOL vs MON thing, when in fact its nothing like that. The old argument of each managers capabilities is not one that can be really assesed as the rules they work/ed under have changed radically. Far too many people IMO, are assuming that the manager is the sole key to any success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Once again you are wrong. I answered to this. seriously guys to be honest after finishing 16th last season can we really expect to finish in the top 6? Now, how come me having some opinions on MON or DOL, make me having a problem with MON? Thats just silly, and once again people turn to this, when they cant argue the case. TRL, Apologies if I misinterpreted your posts, but they seem to be clearly targeted at MON from two perspectives. Drat01, I wasn't suggesting the manager was the sole key to success, because clearly, a supportive chairman and board is also vital. It seemed to me that TRL however, had a problem with MON, when it is too early in his tenure to judge him. However, TRL now seems to be justifying his posts from a different position. I think we all hope we achieve a top 6 finish, and maybe we could if everything fell right for Villa, but it isn't a failure if we finish in the top 10 given our starting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I think your last paragraph is perfect summing up AVFCinSpain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted November 3, 2006 VT Supporter Share Posted November 3, 2006 TRL clearly you have a screw loose somewhere i think anyone who seriously expects finishing outside the top 6 as failure is kidding themselves The squad as it is is no where near good enough for top 6 even if things go our way and we get into europe we do not have the infrastructure to attract top players Villa's profile just is not attractive enough to the top players i am not saying that top 6 is impossible but as avfcinspain said it would need us to overachieve and other clubs around us to under achiveve for this to happen and to be honest we have looked very tired in the last few games and can see us slipping away from the european spots over the xmas period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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