Extended Warranties / Guarantees

[Davkaus]

We're missing a bit of context here, @Anthony. Your laptop broke, they repaired it, that repair lasted 5 months. What I'm curious about is how long ago did you buy the laptop? And you paid for the first repair? How much was the repair? Have they explained any rationale in rejecting your request

I'm not legally qualified, but personally if I'd paid hundreds (I'm assuming, based on the components replaced) for a repair, and that repair itself had failed within 5 months, if they wouldn't play ball, I'd be sending them one further mail to say you believe it reasonable to expect a manufacturer repair to last longer than 5 months, and the next step if they aren't willing to put right their inadequate repair will be a claim in small claims court. And if they call your bluff, I'd follow through on that. The judge isn't going to expect you to pay someone like @Mandy Lifeboats for a claim of such relatively low value or to have legal advice, and more likely than not Dell will fold as soon as they realise they'd have to try and defend their case.

[Seat68]

My work dell laptop is a great old work horse, does what I need, relatively fast start up, no complaints at all. I purchased a different dell laptop and it was absolutely awful, on a clean build it took ages to start, ridiculously slow at processing anything and about 18 months in it literally gave up, doesnt boot anymore, cant get to the bios, wont boot from usb or anything. I now have a HP which I have zero complaints about, and will never buy another dell.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

A house in the suburbs eh? Can't win 'em all I guess.

Seriously though, I can't find the law on repairs anywhere, other than 'reasonable', which, as you very well know is a really good word for lawyers who want to generate money.

A Dell laptop, repaired by Dell and only used in an office environment. Surely it's reasonable to expect it to last at least a year? FWIW they replaced the battery, motherboard and charging socket, as the laptop wasn't charging. Now it's not charging again.

Please note, I'm not expecting you to give me lots of your time and expertise for free, but any links or recommendations for further reading would be very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get the answer you want.    But I think you have been given some decent advice.  

@GeorgeVilla82seems a very good bet.   But I think one of us has misunderstood the issue.   Its my understanding that you purchased a laptop.  It was fine.  It lasted for a reasonable amount of time.  It broke.   It was repaired.   You are unhappy with the repair.   If my understanding is correct @GeorgeVilla82 advice doesn't fit.   There was no inherent fault.   But please accept my apologies if my understanding was incorrect.     

I would concur with the suggestion from @davkaus that you state your intention to take the claim to small claims court and do so if they refuse.  But you could lose the case and incur more cost.   Many large companies simply pay up because it's cheaper than getting a solicitor to even look at the case.   But if they turn up you will need to provide evidence to support your cases.   A general feeling that it should last longer isn't really admissible evidence.   Especially if DELL provide a statement from a trained technician that states its perfectly reasonable.   

The big problem you have is this  >> none of the people who replied know the full facts of the case.   Even if we did, we are not technical experts on the equipment and repair.   There is ample consumer law on the purchase of new items.   But its less helpful when it's a repair on an old item.   

In your shoes,  I would hope to get some clarification from @GeorgeVilla82on the issue above.   I'd then be sending a formal letter mentioning the Small Claims Court.   

I hope this helps and is worth my fee.   

 Small claims court: how to make a claim & fees involved - Money Saving Expert

The small claims court is the low-hassle way to take legal action for up to £10,000 against a firm or individual in the UK. But be confident you've got a case before you start as new fees mean you'll now pay twice as much if you lose. This guide tells you how to make a claim, whether it's the best course of action, and how to max your chance of winning.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Further to above.   

Check the Terms and Conditions you accepted.

Obviously I don't have a copy but the following is an extract from one on the Dell Website. 

Dell will repair Dell Products using parts which are new, equivalent to new or reconditioned, in accordance with industry standards and practice, and which will work for at least the remainder of the applicable statutory and/or contractual Product warranty period. You will own all replacement Products and/or parts. Dell shall own any Product and/or parts that are replaced, and, if requested by Dell to do so, you must return them to Dell.

This raises a question that I can't answer.  

Did the parts used in the repair last the remainder of the applicable statutory and/or contractual Product warranty period?   

You could write to Dell and ask them what parts they used and what the applicable and/or contractual Product Warranty period is for each part they used.   

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE VERBATIM.   Use the actual T&C wording that you signed up to.   

 

 

 

[GeorgeVilla82]

My interpretation (which may be wrong!) of @Anthony's posts is that the retailer accepted that the laptop had an inherent fault by undertaking the first repair free of charge - once a product is past the first 6 months from purchase, it's for the consumer to demonstrate that there was an inherent fault at purchase which has now become apparent. So I assumed that they agreed that the product was faulty for the purposes of the Consumer Rights Act.

Once that's been established, the CRA is pretty clear that the retailer has one opportunity to repair or replace the product. If that fails, then the consumer is entitled to a refund - full if within 6 months of purchase, and partial to recognise usage if longer than 6 months. 

This article also explains it well

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl

Having worked for two very large nationwide electricals retailers, I can safely say that you can threaten to sue them but it probably won't change much in dealing with the Customer Services team (who are your best bet - once it gets to Legal, it will get very slow and unlikely to reach a sensible settlement). I would put a formal complaint in writing (by email and letter) setting out the chronology and the law I quoted above - happy to review it if you PM me - and also perhaps write to one of the press consumer champions (The Sunday Times A Question of Money, for example). 

Anyway, no one really wants to hear lawyers debate consumer rights law (even I get bored of it TBH!) so happy to chat via PM if easier. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Thanks @GeorgeVilla82

I formed my opinion due to the words "I needed to pay AGAIN".  The inference being that the repair was a paid one, not free of charge.  

I have no professional experience of small claims court.  But my own experience is that the larger the company the less likely they are to attend.   Does your company actually contest small claims where its for a minimal amount?  

 

 

[GeorgeVilla82]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Thanks @GeorgeVilla82

I formed my opinion due to the words "I needed to pay AGAIN".  The inference being that the repair was a paid one, not free of charge.  

I have no professional experience of small claims court.  But my own experience is that the larger the company the less likely they are to attend.   Does your company actually contest small claims where its for a minimal amount?  

 

 

I don’t work for a large retailer any more (I’m now at a luxury brand - different challenges!) but it depends. When I was at the UK’s largest electrical retailer, they had a whole team of paralegals set up to deal with customer small claims. 
 

The large department store chain I then worked at had a different approach - pay it if it was a small amount and seemed within the bounds of reasonableness. 

[Anthony]

Hello again and thank you, all of you, who have contributed.

So, for clarity, this is the history.

Buy laptop - all good.

Warranty on laptop ends. Not so long after, it stops charging.

Get in touch with Dell, agree to a paid, out of warranty repair.

Repair gets done, then fails after 5 months, with the same issue.

Dell want to charge me again to make good the failed repair. I came here to find out what the legal basis is, or at least where to start looking.

On 19/01/2023 at 14:32, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Dell will repair Dell Products using parts which are new, equivalent to new or reconditioned, in accordance with industry standards and practice, and which will work for at least the remainder of the applicable statutory and/or contractual Product warranty period. You will own all replacement Products and/or parts. Dell shall own any Product and/or parts that are replaced, and, if requested by Dell to do so, you must return them to Dell.

Reading the contract was the first thing I did when they refused to make good the repair, so I do understand what Dell's position is. However, what I'm trying to establish is the 'applicable statutory period' i.e. what does the law say about how long it should last? In a game of legal Top Trumps, the law beats anything Dell come up with.

On 19/01/2023 at 11:56, Davkaus said:

We're missing a bit of context here, @Anthony. Your laptop broke, they repaired it, that repair lasted 5 months. What I'm curious about is how long ago did you buy the laptop? And you paid for the first repair? How much was the repair? Have they explained any rationale in rejecting your request

I'm not legally qualified, but personally if I'd paid hundreds (I'm assuming, based on the components replaced) for a repair, and that repair itself had failed within 5 months, if they wouldn't play ball, I'd be sending them one further mail to say you believe it reasonable to expect a manufacturer repair to last longer than 5 months, and the next step if they aren't willing to put right their inadequate repair will be a claim in small claims court. And if they call your bluff, I'd follow through on that. The judge isn't going to expect you to pay someone like @Mandy Lifeboats for a claim of such relatively low value or to have legal advice, and more likely than not Dell will fold as soon as they realise they'd have to try and defend their case.

How long ago did I buy the laptop? - maybe 3 years? Ish? Is it relevant to this case though? Not being sarcastic! I don't think it is, but would welcome a correction if I'm wrong.

Yes, I paid for the first repair.

The repair was about £370. They replaced the battery, the motherboard and the charging port.

Their explanation for rejecting my request is "Our repairs are only guaranteed for a short while, and you're outside of that time." i.e. this is our policy, suck it.

Like you @Davkaus, I think it's reasonable for a repair to last longer than 5 months. The question is though, what does the law say? I don't want to take them to the small claims court, only for a judge to reject my arguments and say that I should've realised that what they're doing is within the law.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Anthony
missed a bit

[Mandy Lifeboats]

 

You have purchased goods and a service. 

Goods must last a reasonable time. 

Repairs to goods are a service and need to undertaken with reasonable care and skill. 

I don't think there is any resource which is going to give you the definitive answer you seek regarding these particular parts and this particular service.     

To get that clarity you need someone with in-depth knowledge of computer components who also understands consumer law.   

 

This website is as good as it gets when outlining your rights in a simple manner.   

Consumer rights & protection: get money back - MSE (moneysavingexpert.com)

"Your consumer rights protect you when you buy goods and services. This means you have rights by law, which a shop or service provider can't change." 

 

And this one which goes into more detail.   

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Which?

"Here we explain what it means when buying goods or services"