TrentVilla Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm sure I had a match box on my desk this morning but it appears to have vanished..... I suspect the work of Villa's very own borrower Bannan who has nicked it for a bed. The issue for me with Bannan has never been his physical stature, I don't really see it as a big (pardon the pun) issue. My issue with him is I just don't think he is any good, I don't think he has anything going for him at all, he has no redeeming elements to his game not even his 'world class' crossing. He contributes nothing and we carry him week after week and he isn't good enough to deserve that, we are not good enough to allow for that and so I want him out the team. In fact given his age, lack of progress and in my view lack of ability I'd be quite happy to see him out of the club. Obviously there are others I'd like to see the back of as well as Bannan but none that have quite such a regular role within the team. I'm sure some take issue with his height but it is a side issue and one that is a useful diversion from the real issue most people have with him, his lack of impact in games and almost complete lack of end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 This may be a fairly blasphemous thing to say on a Villa board, but regarding Barry Bannan; O'Neill was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Disagree completely. He doesn't contribute "nothing" and he isn't "carried." That's not just ludicrous exaggeration it is flat wrong. He's contributed 46 accurate crosses in 106 balls. Best in the Premier League. He's contributed 30 key passes - the most of any Villa player except Benteke. That is "end product." This season Bannan's proved he does have ability which stands out in the Premier League. Is he the complete player yet ready to carry the team? No. Bannan has played only half the time available and when he's played we've usually been a better side but he's not the kind of player who can grab and dominate a game like Steven Gerrard. Lower your expectations and you will appreciate what a useful player Bannan has been for the team. Edited January 28, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 I don't think he has anything going for him at all, he has no redeeming elements to his game... He contributes nothing and we carry him week after week and he isn't good enough to deserve that, we are not good enough to allow for that and so I want him out the team. In fact given his age, lack of progress and in my view lack of ability I'd be quite happy to see him out of the club. Obviously there are others I'd like to see the back of as well as Bannan but none that have quite such a regular role within the team.... Disagree completely. He doesn't contribute "nothing" and he isn't "carried." That's not just ludicrous exaggeration it is flat wrong. He's contributed 46 accurate crosses in 106 balls. Best in the Premier League. He's contributed 30 key passes - the most of any Villa player except Benteke. That is "end product." This season Bannan's proved he does have ability which stands out in the Premier League. Is he the complete player yet ready to carry the team? No. Bannan has played only half the time available and when he's played we've usually been a better side but he's not the kind of player who can grab and dominate a game like Steven Gerrard. Lower your expectations and you will appreciate what a useful player Bannan has been for the team.I'm somewhere between these 2 views. I think he can and does contribute. The stats Con put up show that. I feel that with BB the issue is basically 2 fold on the negative side, maybe 3 fold - 1. He doesn't select the right ball to play often enough, or he selects the wrong one too often. When he picks the right pass, he's good. The question is can you tolerate the continued selection of bad options from him.The second issue is confidence, and that's something that's affecting the whole team.The third is his behaviour away from the ground - drinking and driving, and other things.On the plus side he can pick a pass, he's a nifty player when on form, and he works harder than alternatives such as Ireland. He doesn't hide, he shows for the ball. He chases back and so on.In an ideal world he'd be able to be rested more often, he'd be less concentrated on because we'd have a better squad.A few months ago, everyone seemed to be on Delph's case, but he's now playing well. I'm not bannan's biggest fan, but he's nowhere near as "useless" as seems to be the view of a number of people. Struggling sides all have a scapegoat, and he's ours at the moment. People become pre-disposed to knock certain players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Disagree completely. He doesn't contribute "nothing" and he isn't "carried." That's not just ludicrous exaggeration it is flat wrong. He's contributed 46 accurate crosses in 106 balls. Best in the Premier League. He's contributed 30 key passes - the most of any Villa player except Benteke. That is "end product." This season Bannan's proved he does have ability which stands out in the Premier League. Is he the complete player yet ready to carry the team? No. Bannan has played only half the time available and when he's played we've usually been a better side but he's not the kind of player who can grab and dominate a game like Steven Gerrard. Lower your expectations and you will appreciate what a useful player Bannan has been for the team. Are you listening to yourself? Ability which stands out in the Premier League? End product? You need to lay off the glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzy_Avfc Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Bannan is a good passer of the ball, every now and again he'll produce a quality set piece too. (Shame nobody on our team can aim a header!) BUT he just can't be a CM. I'd say Bannan would play well in the CF role without defensive jobs on his mind. Putting him at CM is causing us to be badly overrun in the middle of the park. If we can't fit him in the CF role, use him as a substitute as a CF. NOT for a CM job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 End product.... 6 assists in 57 games World class.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If Bannan stays in the team and continues to impress and be much more consistent at ilmore basic stuff, regular passing, not dawdling looking for the hollywood pass and getting caught in possession, he will be top quality. People keep saying I must be Bannan or his Dad or a friend... I'm none of those things. I'm a fan who wants a team that plays the sort of football a Barry Bannan would give it. When I read hateful screeds against him, I'm not just reading the words, I'm thinking "this person doesn't want the team to have any creativity - no, no, that's not true". "this person would rather we play long ball rather than short passes - no, that's not true either". "this person is the enemy of football as we know it!!! - no, calm down, that's not true". I'd be very happy if we went in the transfer market and upgraded to the Barry BannanPlatinum and we sold our existing one. Until we do that I will continue to be supportive of our most creative players, especially the ones that work hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think he's over confident, I think he gets excited and plays a big pass when most of the time he should keep it simple, it's youthful inexperience. He should watch Scholes, he always has a picture in his head and picks the right pass nearly every time he has the ball. Let the ball do the work, it doesn't always have to go forward, use your head, always look for to take up a position to receive the ball, play the next pass in your head before you receive the ball and do it for 90, would be my advice - for what it's worth, which is very little. I like his confidence, he needs more nous and composure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The enemy of football = stats bores. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaretFondu Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 He gets assists of assists right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 How many of his key passes are to Benteke from corners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 He gets assists of assists right? Involved in the build-up to goals, such as the second against Liverpool and the corner against Reading which lead directly to the penalty. We won those matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You are referring to English football? It is very easy to find 'short' top players abroad. You need to do your own research on this, visit some wikipedia pages. English football, Allen, Brittan, Rosicky, Mata. Fabragas, Gordon Strachan, Ossie Ardiles. The template is well established even in English football you don't have to "dig" very far at all if you have a normal amount of knowledge of the game. Apologies for not holding all my information in a spreadsheet... however, Bannan still isn't a Premier League player and no amount of gigabytes, SQL Databases or pretty excel graphs will convince me otherwise. I play a lot of poker and some of the players I'm against have fantastic stats (usually through a lucky tournament or two), though they aren't very good poker players. The same holds true for Bannan IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) How many of his key passes are to Benteke from corners? According to Squawka, 30% of his key passes (they count "chances", whoscored.com calls them 'key passes') have been from those segments of the pitch that does not include the corner flag. That means a minimum 9-10 from open play or free kicks, plus any crosses he may have had from open play in the corner segments. Not all his corners are to Benteke, he's also had key passes to Baker and Clark. Not that who he passes to would be relevant for the statistics. Benteke is not the only 6'3 player in the league. Edited January 28, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Stats are meaningless unless they support a point you're trying to make - FACT. In truth, I think all stats have to be put into context of what is happening on the pitch in games rather than just looked at in abstract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 In other words, most. And we're notoriously shit from corners - in fact, the one we scored from was taken by somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 In other words, most. And we're notoriously shit from corners - in fact, the one we scored from was taken by somebody else. A floated delivery no less. We've nearly scored from Bannan deliveries at corners. Benteke had his floaty from Bannan cleared off the line. The Baker effort on to the bar was a whipped delivery. We don't get many of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We haven't scored from his key passes that were corners and we haven't scored from his key passes that were not corners. Perhaps the quality of these key passes might not be what you're pretending to think they are? Opta don't measure quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 Disagree completely. He doesn't contribute "nothing" and he isn't "carried." That's not just ludicrous exaggeration it is flat wrong. He's contributed 46 accurate crosses in 106 balls. Best in the Premier League. He's contributed 30 key passes - the most of any Villa player except Benteke. That is "end product." This season Bannan's proved he does have ability which stands out in the Premier League. Is he the complete player yet ready to carry the team? No. Bannan has played only half the time available and when he's played we've usually been a better side but he's not the kind of player who can grab and dominate a game like Steven Gerrard. Lower your expectations and you will appreciate what a useful player Bannan has been for the team. I can't be arsed with this, the above is total bollocks. Lower my expectations? According to you he is potentially a world class player and is already a world class crosser. Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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