Next leader of the Labour Party should be.....

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I said long ago that the Tories are putting the deficit ahead of the people. It's disgusting that people put money ahead of their fellow humans but there we go, what can you do about it?

[snowychap]

... progression or social mobility, I believe these to be two important aspects of twenty first century democracy.

What the **** hell does social mobility (for whatever it is worth) have to do with democracy in any century?

[avfc89]

... progression or social mobility, I believe these to be two important aspects of twenty first century democracy.

What the **** hell does social mobility (for whatever it is worth) have to do with democracy in any century?

I think it should be a top priority for any Government in the 21st century.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

i'd agree that a democratic society should also be entirely, completely, meritocratic too.

none of this elitist bollocks please, completely undermines this equality buisness we like to bang on about in the West.

[snowychap]

I think it should be a top priority for any Government in the 21st century.

Who are you looking to send downwards?

p.s. You haven't bothered to try to explain what 'social mobility' has to do with democracy (in any century).

[avfc89]

I said long ago that the Tories are putting the deficit ahead of the people. It's disgusting that people put money ahead of their fellow humans but there we go, what can you do about it?

Contest it.

[avfc89]

I think it should be a top priority for any Government in the 21st century.

Who are you looking to send downwards?

p.s. You haven't bothered to try to explain what 'social mobility' has to do with democracy (in any century).

I'm not looking to send anyone downwards. I think I've confused you with my wording, I genuinely mean a better standard of living for the public in the coming years.

[snowychap]

I'm not looking to send anyone downwards. I think I've confused you with my wording, I genuinely mean a better standard of living for the public in the coming years.

I think you are confused with your own wording.

You spoke about 'social mobility' not improving the lot of all.

Social mobility is ulitmately zero-sum.

[avfc89]

I'm not looking to send anyone downwards. I think I've confused you with my wording, I genuinely mean a better standard of living for the public in the coming years.

I think you are confused with your own wording.

You spoke about 'social mobility' not improving the lot of all.

Social mobility is ulitmately zero-sum.

I said I confused you

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

social mobility doesnt mean improving the standard of living for the public, strictly speaking.

[snowychap]

I said I confused you

Edit:

I don't think I was confused; I may have been but I don't think I was.

I am a bit now, though, re-reading it and editing this the following day.

[leviramsey]

I'm not looking to send anyone downwards. I think I've confused you with my wording, I genuinely mean a better standard of living for the public in the coming years.

I think you are confused with your own wording.

You spoke about 'social mobility' not improving the lot of all.

Social mobility is ulitmately zero-sum.

If greater social mobility results in a more productive allocation of assets, then it's not zero-sum.

[leviramsey]

social mobility doesnt mean improving the standard of living for the public, strictly speaking.

Indeed, if you're talking about the ultimate in social mobility, a perfect meritocracy, one suspects that most Britons would suffer a dramatic reduction in standard of living.

("most" including large majorities of Houses of both the Lords and Council varieties... as long as there's a Labour party for the latter and Conservative party for the former, there's not going to be real social mobility... only Liberalism/Whiggism is the way out)

[snowychap]

If greater social mobility results in a more productive allocation of assets, then it's not zero-sum.

If...

I don't see why it would necessarily be so - indeed, when one factors human beings in to the equation, I'd suggest the if becomes if only. :winkold:

[Mantis]

Too bad. Ultimately the economy will improve and businesses will be in a position where they need to hire more staff. It's unhealthy for a country when so many jobs rely on government money. What happens when the government runs out of a money a la Greece?

It isn't "too bad", it's quite serious to cut sternly in the aftermath of a recession. I personally believe the Government should be active in creating work for the public, you need to keep the Economy productive, and people being unable to work will fail to keep the finances healthy.

Of course it's serious. I never said it wasn't. If the government was running on a surplus or even a small deficit I'd advocate investing but right now the government is running on a huge deficit.

You need to look past the deficit and put the needs of the Country's people first. The current plans by the Tories doesn't advocate progression or social mobility, I believe these to be two important aspects of twenty first century democracy.

Putting the deficit first is putting the needs of the country's people first. If the deficit is not dealt with you can say bye bye to the British economy and millions of jobs.

What exactly do you mean by "progression" and "social mobility"? By progession do you just mean being more liberal and by social mobility do you mean taxing the hell out of anybody with a bit of money?

[C4rvillan]

:-) the Lexus myth / lie that Cameron put out before the election

C4 proves Dave was telling porkies

Well the BMWs aren't! Here in Leicester, they have X5s for the armed response units and 5 series estates for motorway patrol. Both would be between £30,000 to £50,000 a pop. Do they need those?

[Gringo]

Bloody bile' souring Milibands' relationship, claims Neil Kinnock

Tensions between the Miliband brothers have been blown into the open after the former Labour leader Lord Kinnock accused David Miliband's supporters of spreading "bloody bile" about Ed, the younger of the siblings.

As the Labour leadership contest enters its final stages before the ballot closes on Wednesday, Kinnock has charged David Miliband with behaving in a "deeply resentful" manner.

The Milibands, who insist they will remain loving brothers whoever is declared winner a week today, have struggled in recent weeks to hide personal tensions as the contest narrowed to a two-horse race between them.

Kinnock airs their differences publicly when he tells a Channel 4 docudrama of his surprise at David Miliband's behaviour towards his younger brother, saying: "David's response to Ed running has, to my astonishment, been deeply resentful. David's people are spreading all kinds of bloody bile about Ed being in thrall to the left and he would be in the pocket of the unions and all kinds of crap like that."

The programme, called Miliband of Brothers, is due to be shown on More4 next Friday night, on the eve of the announcement of the winner of the Labour leadership battle. It is a light-hearted drama, interspersed with interviews with friends of the brothers, by the makers of the satirical docudrama When Boris Met Dave .

I hope no one complains I haven't posted the full article.

[C4rvillan]

The country is bankrupt and needs to be returned to profitability.

'Returned to profitability'? What the effing **** are you on about?

What the effing **** did you think I'm on about? I think it is quite self explanatory. We have borrowed TOO much money and need to pay it back rather than borrow even more. I take it you are one of these 'creditted' up people who think money grows on trees and things can be paid for with a bit of plastic.

To help you understand further, the country is like Liverpool FC at the minute. We need to sort the mess out rather than trying to refinance. Do you get it now?

[snowychap]

What the effing **** did you think I'm on about? I think it is quite self explanatory.

It wasn't which was why I asked you.

You appear to be of the opinion that the nation is some kind of commercial enterprise which used to make profits (profitability) and is now making losses.

Countries aren't commercial enterprises and it is not usual for a country (at least it is n'tfor the UK) to run a budget surplus.

I take it you are one of these 'creditted' up people who think money grows on trees and things can be paid for with a bit of plastic.

What a presumptuous position to take.

I don't have a credit card and I'm poor. I also take the time to at least try and understand the issues rather than spouting some nonsense about 'returning to profitability'.

To help you understand further...

He he he. Please see above. :winkold:

[Mantis]

I know somebody who lobbies parliament and has met a fair few high ranking politicians over the years and she's quite friendly with Ed Miliband. They're on first name terms. Really nice guy apparently, but then again, K Mac is a nice guy and look at how he managed Villa...

This woman is a hardcore Labour supporter who thinks Gordon Brown is a nice chap in private. Make of that what you will.