drat01 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Knockout blow from the "Beast of Bolsover" shows Cameron up completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Anyone have an idea where Clegg is due to be holidaying? It looks like he has been dreaming of it and wishing that he were there instead of sat where he has been all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Cameron shows why he is a cut above anything labour can throw at him yet again ... Before the debate, 58 per cent of people said the hacking scandal had damaged David Cameron's credibility. However at the current time (1.15pm), just 47 per cent of people believe it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'm not sure 50 tory backbenchers/Sky News bloggers is a reasonable sample, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'm not sure 50 tory backbenchers/Sky News bloggers is a reasonable sample, though. mind you Ian lifted his post straight from Labour HQ so why not :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 20, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2011 What's your view of the employment of Tom Baldwin by laour, Drat - you know the News of the World journo who was the one also used by Blair to "leak" Dr David Kelly's name in to the public domain, over Iraq and WMDs. A leak that ultimately led to a death? Labour (IMO) cannot call out the tories on this issue, they are at least as bad. Yes point out all the errors of judgement vested interests, dodgy deals etc. but don't calim it as "they're bad, we're different" because they're not different. And trying to claim they are better makes them look worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 You see Pete that is the thing with all this. We saw it again today, the Tory party "defence" is well Tony Blair had Murdoch as a friend etc, you saw it in the loaded questions from their MP's hinting that all this started when Blair came to power. the cosying up to Murdoch really started with Thatcher and she exploited that to it's fullest. The Tory party stabbing one of Murdoch's friends in the back when Major came into power did not sit well with him and the opposition parties at the time took advantage of the vendetta that Murdoch wanted to wage against the Tory party of that time. Tom Baldwin was a part of this bigger thing that is the Murdoch empire and the use of journo's such as him was seen as fair play by all of the political parties. What is wrong though is the political lies that Cameron is now telling, not answering questions (must have learned that from Michael Howard) and what "facts" were passed to a leading part of the Tory party mechanism from the phone hacking sources. To claim that certain people were never paid by the Tory party is just deflection. One thing Cameron did say, and was agreed by all of the politicians is that this now has to stop. But it wont, we all know that is not how the world works. Politicians at all levels are brought by favour and influence. You see it in the major political donations, the lobbyists etc and the desire for power. Cameron is smelling of brown smelly stuff and all he can hope for is that people think its something that he can mask with the smell of something else. Can help but chuckle at the hypocrisy of the Tory supporters claiming moral high ground in this whole thing, and the silence from people like Davis and Gideon. As for Clegg, what a complete tosser he has shown himself to be, a perfect excuse to rid himself of the Tory party and he has said and done nothing at all Hague :-) "Coulson paid Hague 200,000 pounds a year for his NOTW column, according to register of MPs interests." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Oh dear: Jeremt Twunt just appeared to drop a bit of a bollock. Cameron very carefully said each time he was questioned about whether he discussed the BSkyB bid with anyone from News International that he had no innapropriate discussions with anyone from News International. He pointedly did not say whether he did or did not discuss the bid or anything about it. Dear old Jeremy has just said that any of the discussions Cameron had with people from News International about BSkyB were wholly irrelevent because he wasn't involved in the decision. He did, inadvertently, appear to undo all of Cameron's earlier work. On the Tom Baldwin issue, it wasn't the wisest move from Ed Miliband, I don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 On the Tom Baldwin issue, it wasn't the wisest move from Ed Miliband, I don't believe. On Tom Baldwin it's interesting. The Tory party, and its chief funder - the Tax avoiding Lord Ashcroft - seem to use Baldwin as some sort of deflection. Just reading that at the time of the investigation into Ashcroft, Baldwin's boss was Michael Gove :-) - oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Drat, if you can't see the problem that affects all of the political parties regarding Murdoch then your 'willful blondess' is truly absurd. It's not about party politics, it's about a functioning democracy. Do you get that or is it still all about you trying to score points? If so then you're no better than the shitehawks currently trying to deflect attention from their party's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 On the Tom Baldwin issue, it wasn't the wisest move from Ed Miliband, I don't believe. On Tom Baldwin it's interesting. The Tory party, and its chief funder - the Tax avoiding Lord Ashcroft - seem to use Baldwin as some sort of deflection. Just reading that at the time of the investigation into Ashcroft, Baldwin's boss was Michael Gove :-) - oops I think that just goes to show how complex and intertwined the relationships were. It may slow down the assault on Mr Baldwin (though one wonders why it took until to day for this revelation to come out) but, in the end, I don't think it was a clever decision to employ him just for the very obvious News International connection however innocent or otherwise he may be. When it comes down to a debate about the quality of the judgement calls made, it rather handicaps Miliband that he has to repeat the 'assurances' defence that ought to have been Cameron's achilles heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 As per Hansard: Cameron: ...We heard the evidence of Rebekah Wade yesterday, saying that there was not one single inappropriate conversation. ... Cameron:...I never had one inappropriate conversation... Two friends under suspicion carefully wording the testimony they give. Sounds like the dodgy coppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Drat, if you can't see the problem that affects all of the political parties regarding Murdoch then your 'willful blondess' is truly absurd. It's not about party politics, it's about a functioning democracy. Do you get that or is it still all about you trying to score points? If so then you're no better than the shitehawks currently trying to deflect attention from their party's involvement. Jon, what the hell are you talking about - or trying to deflect? The issues re Murdoch are not single issue here. The whole NI and the Murdoch empire has wielded far too much political power around the world for many years and as I said opposition parties especially courted him. The big issue now is that the Tory party that you are seemingly desperate for us not to look at, were caught with their pants down being buggered by a series of people with close links to Murdoch and the illegal acts it has been caught out on. Add to that the favours that it was showing in business - see Cameron and his evasive actions today, make for bad reading for them. Worse than we have seen before. As said - which you chose to ignore - agree with all the political sentiments re removing that outside influence, but that will never happen. Never has done never will do. With people like Ashcroft and his Tax avoidance billions how can it been transparent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 'willful blondess' Ye wot? p.s. Sounds like a description of Boris. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The Grud report that Cameron DID speak with NI re BSkyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2011 The big issue now is that the Tory party ....were caught with their pants down being buggered by a series of people with close links to Murdoch and the illegal acts it has been caught out on. Add to that the favours that it was showing in business - see Cameron and his evasive actions today, make for bad reading for them. Worse than we have seen before. I agree it's "a" big issue, but it's not "the" big issue. The big issue is that both labour and the Tories are/were equally as bad equally as guilty on this. It's not just about the Tories are/were up to their necks in it, labour was too.The issue is that our Governments for the past 20+ years were at it. The libs weren't, but only because they were never going to form the Government and so were of no consequence. Yes the Tories are in charge now, and yes it's right that focus should be on them, as they're the Gov't. Cameron and gideon & Co. have plenty of explaining to do. However I find it really irksome when Labour MPs or supporters attempt to make out that it's only the tories that were at it, or are the only political party that has a great deal of explaining to do. Labour were at it as well, just as much. It's not a party political issue. It's much bigger than that. I suppose the MPs sort of have to do it, as the opposition, but it reeks of hypocrisy and people can see that. Yes, people like Tom Watson shine and good on him and the others like him. People like Cameron, Blair, Brown, Osbourne, Hunt, Milliband and so on ALL have some explaining to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 21, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2011 Was listening to Prescott the other day and he claims he was constantly saying to "the likes of Tony and Gordon" that they shouldn't be as supine to Murdoch as they were, he even said he thought that they shouldn't be seen to be attending functions with them and being any where near as cosy as they were, he said it fell on deaf ears every single time. Like Prescott was the loan voice... Of course he would say that now but he seemed believeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarrieBlue Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The big issue now is that the Tory party ....were caught with their pants down being buggered by a series of people with close links to Murdoch and the illegal acts it has been caught out on. Add to that the favours that it was showing in business - see Cameron and his evasive actions today, make for bad reading for them. Worse than we have seen before. I agree it's "a" big issue, but it's not "the" big issue. The big issue is that both labour and the Tories are/were equally as bad equally as guilty on this. It's not just about the Tories are/were up to their necks in it, labour was too.The issue is that our Governments for the past 20+ years were at it. The libs weren't, but only because they were never going to form the Government and so were of no consequence. Yes the Tories are in charge now, and yes it's right that focus should be on them, as they're the Gov't. Cameron and gideon & Co. have plenty of explaining to do. However I find it really irksome when Labour MPs or supporters attempt to make out that it's only the tories that were at it, or are the only political party that has a great deal of explaining to do. Labour were at it as well, just as much. It's not a party political issue. It's much bigger than that. I suppose the MPs sort of have to do it, as the opposition, but it reeks of hypocrisy and people can see that. Yes, people like Tom Watson shine and good on him and the others like him. People like Cameron, Blair, Brown, Osbourne, Hunt, Milliband and so on ALL have some explaining to do. I think the ''big issue'' here is Cameron's judgement. Having been warned of Andy Coulson he went ahead and employed him. It may just be an isolated error, but it maynot , how many other bad judgement calls has he made? and can we affordto have a pm with susopect judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Labour were at it as well, just as much. It's not a party political issue. It's much bigger than that. I suppose the MPs sort of have to do it, as the opposition, but it reeks of hypocrisy and people can see that. exactly ... Ed tried to use it to cement his position , but ultimately he has failed .. and I suspect long term may have even helped Cameron as the focus has been removed from the cuts and the economy of late Miliband, after two impressive weeks, reverted to looking somehow too small for his job (let alone Mr Cameron's). A circuitous, three-part question bored his own side, whereas many of Mr Cameron's remarks were met with approving roars from his backbenchers (which, if you have heard Tory MPs hold forth on their aloof, electorally underachieving leader, is not something he could have counted on). For the time being, however, and thanks to his career-long habit of excelling under pressure, Mr Cameron has consolidated his position. Full article here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's not a party political issue. It's much bigger than that. Indeed, it's about the country's prime minister. Full article here Excerpt: Then came prime minister's questions, the weekly ritual which usually touches on a range of pertinent (and impertinent) topics but which was this week dominated by hacking and all things related. I may be mistaken but I don't think it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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