Bolitics The New Condem Government

[snowychap]

This morning Cameron talked about Doctors and their customers!

Just continuing the officialspeak of the last couple of decades plus (we've been 'customers' of the DWP for a long while now, for example).

[blandy]

2 conflicting reports though i suppose we have to accept the words of anarchists over the police these days .

To be fair the police do tend to lie until video evidence to the contrary is produced - then the CPS cover for them.

Quality

[snowychap]

Could have sworn that Paxman just erred and said c*nts instead of cuts. :oops:

[snowychap]

...anarchists...

What a load of old cobblers.

[Gringo]

More anarchists onto the bonfire of misery

Debt advisors stop taking cases as funding ends

For the past five years, the £25m-a-year Financial Inclusion Fund has been paying for about 500 specialists in England and Wales to give free advice.

But the cash is due to run out in March and the government has said it will not renew the fund.

The news means that advisers face redundancy at a time when demand for their advice is forecast to grow.

The debt advisers affected have been sent redundancy letters and been told to stop taking on any new clients, other than those with the simplest problems.

The Money Advice Trust, a charity which promotes independent help for people with debt problems, forecasts that 200,000 extra requests for free debt advice are expected this year, taking the total to a record 1.6 million

[drat01]

and yet more people tell Gideon and Cameron (and cuckold Clegg) that what they are proposing re cuts is wrong - will they listen? only if their backers say so

Economy is too weak to handle cuts, Osborne is warned

One of the nation's leading economic authorities today adds to the pressure on George Osborne to execute a U-turn on his economic policies.

The National Institute for Economic and Social Research (NIESR) urges the Chancellor to "ease off" spending cuts and consider tax rebates if the economy shows signs of a further sharp slowdown and says there is "a case for delaying some of the austerity programme but accelerating planned increases in the state pension age".

The NIESR adds that there will be no real-terms rise in house prices until 2013, allowing for general inflation, and that households will suffer a fall of 0.8 per cent in their disposable incomes this year. UK growth will be "only" 1.5 per cent, it says.

In a blow to the credibility of the Government's plans to reduce the country's debt levels, the NIESR also predicts that Mr Osborne will fail to meet his goal of eliminating the structural budget deficit by the end of this parliament, albeit narrowly.

The Institute warns: "The debate over the timing and scale of the consolidation is not over. In these circumstances we would argue for a delay in consolidation. Governments act slowly and expenditure cuts on goods and services appear to be delaying themselves.

"This process is likely to continue, and, if cuts cannot be made, either taxes should rise now or tax rises should be announced for the near future."

Such tax hikes, the NIESR stresses, should only be contemplated if the recovery does pick up, and might be better postponed until 2013. If the economy stumbles, it suggests a policy U-turn instead.

The NIESR's acting head, Ray Barrell, said: "If the economy does slow down sharply over the next six months, then the Chancellor should use fiscal policy to support the economy. The most sensible options would be to announce a temporary 'tax holiday' on national insurance contributions or income tax, or for tax rebates. These would have an immediate impact – changing public spending plans takes more time."

He added that the Government might in any case wish to "ease off" some of its departmental spending cuts, especially if they meet practical problems in implementation. In a flat contradiction of the argument the Chancellor reiterated over the weekend, the NIESR says there is little danger. "There appears to be no reason to think that the burden of interest payments is currently expected to be excessive, and real borrowing costs facing the Government are very low. In addition, there is little evidence to suggest that market perceptions of the risk of a government default have been worryingly high."

Angela Eagle, the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, said: "It's time for George Osborne to get his head out of the sand, look at the facts and rethink his reckless plan to take another £20bn out of the economy in April on top of the VAT rise. He needs a plan B and he needs one quick."

But, in what may evolve into an unlikely political alliance between the Labour leadership and Tory backbenchers, the NIESR's call for tax rebates or "holidays" to stimulate growth may also find support among Tory tax cutters as the Budget, on 23 March, approaches.

Former cabinet minister John Redwood said: "To get enterprise growing, creating the many new jobs we need and welfare reform requires, we need tax cuts. The Chancellor should be dusting down plans to get the UK back into shape as a competitive place for business and investment. Recent years of tax increases have left us struggling, losing capital, talent and companies that could make a difference."

The Conservative Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, called last week for an end to the new 50p top rate of tax.

The NIESR comes close to endorsing the recent charge of the former head of the CBI, Richard Lambert, that ministers are putting politics before economics. A politically convenient timetable for deficit reduction – getting the "pain" over early, before facing a general election in 2015 – may conflict with the economically wise route of delaying spending cuts while the economy is weak and quickening the pace later as recovery strengthens.

It adds: "Our forecast highlights the fact that the planned consolidation is currently not large enough to achieve this [the 'Fiscal Mandate' set by the Chancellor] and taxes will eventually have to rise.

"We would not argue for further consolidation immediately and we have consistently argued for consolidation only when the economy can support it; our view remains that this will not be the case in 2011."

The Fiscal Plan, says the NIESR, will fail to end the structural deficit: "On the basis of the current fiscal consolidation plan, this target will be missed, albeit by less than 0.5 per cent of Gross Domestic Product."

A Treasury spokesman responded; "Dealing with the deficit is a vital pre-condition to growth and abandoning the plan which has restored internationally credibility, helping to keep market interest rates low, would only store up bigger problems."

link

[peterms]

From the government's point of view, it's pretty clear-cut. Just tell these people to pay their debts. Really, what further advice could possibly be required?

[drat01]

From the government's point of view, it's pretty clear-cut. Just tell these people to pay their debts. Really, what further advice could possibly be required?

The let them eat cake philosophy

[peterms]

2 conflicting reports though i suppose we have to accept the words of anarchists over the police these days .

To be fair the police do tend to lie until video evidence to the contrary is produced - then the CPS cover for them.

Oh, look! Some video evidence.

There's a clear view of the door in question. Can anyone spot the criminal damage?

We can also see a policeman spraying CS gas in breach of police guidelines, using it on people who don't appear to be posing any kind of a threat.

[Awol]

I agree with Ian's link regarding tax cuts even if doing so reduces the pace of deficit reduction. Dogmatically sticking with a certain policy is one thing, doing so in the face of evidence that it isn't working is another - and daft.

Less tax = more growth = stronger/faster recovery.

[Gringo]

From the above link.....

The Acpo guidelines state that CS spray should not be used at a distance of less than one metre from the target, "unless the nature of the risk to the officer is such that this cannot be avoided".

"In such cases, officers must be prepared to justify not only their use of the spray but also their decision to use it at a distance which may cause damage to eyes due to the discharge pressure of the liquid."

Well it looks like he may have some explaining to do.

There was considerably less trouble at the events over the last weekend. Wonder how much that is to do with the new app to avoid the police kettling lines, and the police's lack of ability to round people up and lock them up for hours on end without water, food, toilets etc sees them resort to other ways of inciting unrest and discouraging people from attending future protests.

[Awol]

2 conflicting reports though i suppose we have to accept the words of anarchists over the police these days .

To be fair the police do tend to lie until video evidence to the contrary is produced - then the CPS cover for them.

Oh, look! Some video evidence.

There's a clear view of the door in question. Can anyone spot the criminal damage?

We can also see a policeman spraying CS gas in breach of police guidelines, using it on people who don't appear to be posing any kind of a threat.

I love this quote: "if protesters refuse to cooperate then police tactics will have to become more extreme." Not "if protesters become violent", just a refusal to cooperate. Surely if people are just being a pain in the arse and not actually breaking the law then the police response is actually unlawful? That's assuming of course that they are in fact restrained by the very law they are supposed to uphold - which we know they are not - so I've answered my own question there.

The UK is so broken that looking in from outside it now appears absurd that people have put up with it for so long.

[peterms]

I love this quote: "if protesters refuse to cooperate then police tactics will have to become more extreme." Not "if protesters become violent", just a refusal to cooperate. Surely if people are just being a pain in the arse and not actually breaking the law then the police response is actually unlawful? That's assuming of course that they are in fact restrained by the very law they are supposed to uphold - which we know they are not - so I've answered my own question there.

I think you're right, it is unlawful.

The trend seems to be towards punishing people for taking part in demonstrations in order to dissuade them from doing so again. That seems to be the motive behind kettling, which in no respect could be said to be an attempt to isolate people using or threatening violence.

There are some short versions, here, of letters from students and staff at Cambridge describing their personal experience of the demonstrations and what the police were doing. (The LRB had asked people at Cambridge for accounts of what went on - don't know why they picked this one institution).

[tonyh29]

There's a clear view of the door in question. Can anyone spot the criminal damage?

obviously i wasn't there so don't know if Boots had closed the shop and locked the doors but in the video the door is clearly not fully shut and at first glance appears to have been prised slightly , I suppose the first question would be did she try and force the doors open in order to "just push some leaflets through the door" ?

I couldn't actually see any leaflets on the floor behind the door so how do we know for sure that is all she was trying to do ? probably only she can answer that question and a short and selective video probably doesn't really allow anyone to say what exactly her motives were

Now , she doesn't look like a violent protester so the police probably should have used a bit of common sense , but the CS spraying is clearly wrong in this instance and should be dealt with

[peterms]

There's a clear view of the door in question. Can anyone spot the criminal damage?

obviously i wasn't there so don't know if Boots had closed the shop and locked the doors but in the video the door is clearly not fully shut and at first glance appears to have been prised slightly , I suppose the first question would be did she try and force the doors open in order to "just push some leaflets through the door" ?

I couldn't actually see any leaflets on the floor behind the door so how do we know for sure that is all she was trying to do ? probably only she can answer that question and a short and selective video probably doesn't really allow anyone to say what exactly her motives were

Now , she doesn't look like a violent protester so the police probably should have used a bit of common sense , but the CS spraying is clearly wrong in this instance and should be dealt with

Other accounts say that she bent the rubber seal between the doors to get the leaflets through.

To prise the doors, she would require a tool.

Both the arrest and the gassing seem like a deliberate escalation of the situation, out of proportion to what was happening. In previous years, police have been guided not to escalate situations. This seems to be changing recently, and Hugh Orde's threatening comments suggest there will be more of this.

[tonyh29]

Other accounts say that she bent the rubber seal between the doors to get the leaflets through.

so attempted criminal damage then ? which spookily enough was what the police arrested her for

[blandy]

Bending a (reformable) rubber seal in order to post a leaflet is not "criminal Damage"

[tonyh29]

she was arrested for "Attempted" criminal damage , how does plod know what her intentions were ? how do we for that matter ?

put it another way if plod sees someone attempting to break into a car does he have to wait until the person has actually broken in and driven off before he can attempt to arrest him ??

[peterms]

she was arrested for "Attempted" criminal damage , how does plod know what her intentions were ? how do we for that matter ?

put it another way if plod sees someone attempting to break into a car does he have to wait until the person has actually broken in and driven off before he can attempt to arrest him ??

Your argument is becoming increasingly desperate and far-fetched, Tony.

Attempting to break in to a car is a crime, and witnessing the attempt is sufficient evidence to make an arrest.

Arresting someone because she may have had an intent, though her actions plainly did not amount to damage and therefore there is no earthly reason to believe that she did in fact have such an intent, is abuse of power, pure and simple.

Should the police come and arrest you on the grounds that you may have an intent to murder, though there is no reason whatever to suppose that you actually do?

It seems to me from the video that the police have managed to create a confrontation out of what appears to have been a good-natured protest. Possibly they did so deliberately, possibly they just were poorly trained and got carried away (I see the one wielding the CS gas also managed to spray his own eyes, which doesn't say a great deal for the quality of his training or his composure).

It will be interesting to see what evidence the police actually produce, if in fact they go as far as charging her. Quite likely the arrest was a sham, just a demonstration of power rather than a reasonable response to an actual offence being committed.

[snowychap]

Quite likely the arrest was a sham, just a demonstration of power rather than a reasonable response to an actual offence being committed.

There are some reports that a couple of officers from the DPG (diplomatic protection group) turned up, too. (Possibly tooled up)