Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Jon]

I just feel for the people who are going to lose their job.

yep, there could be a fair few of those.

anyone working for the govt in the public sector is in trouble.

That includes me and our dept, who do loads of data processing and analysis for the DWP, for their back to work programmes.

They're not going to cut all welfare progs and back to work schemes, but they do seemingly intend to "pool" them all into 1 scheme, so that may be a worry for us.

[drat01]

It's a good start but Brown and Darling left us in a big pile of excrement so there will be a long way to go

but I see the Unions are saying it's a bad move and the private sector are saying it's a good move so it seems that people still want to play politics over it all

The private sector are not all saying this as the reality of it all is that it is them who benefited from Public Sector spending. The fact that they will not disclose the number of jobs that will be cut and don;t forget we will then have to pay for these people out of work, is concerning. The accountants are in charge now and any firm will tell you that once the bean counters start running the show its time for common sense and reality to disappear. I love how they hit travel as though that will be a major saving. The reality of that is people still need to get around and there is often a degradation in the efficiency of departments when travel is stopped. The reality of commerce and business is that people have to move and get around

The LibDems's again are acting shamefully and the people who voted for them must now regret it. They are totally going against their manifesto pledges and to see them actively supporting the typical Tory assault on the public sector, is one that I never thought I would see happen. The LibDems are now finished and the merge into the Con's is virtually complete

[bickster]

They haven't stopped travel though have they Ian, they've just stopped first class travel, I thought I heard on the radio

And which manifesto pledges are the LibDems going against? Curious more than anything as its all going a bit blah blah blah in my eyes and my eyelids are glazing over

[drat01]

Apparently - from a "friend" in the know - all travel has to go through more levels of approval now which inhibits it in real terms - its a trick we have seen in various companies when the bean counters start their ideas - they always seem to think that travel = jolly when the reality is that it aint the case

[Awol]

The private sector are not all saying this as the reality of it all is that it is them who benefited from Public Sector spending.

IT firms that have been taking the living piss out of government contracts will certainly suffer, but I don't believe it will be putting the likes of IBM or Accenture out of business anytime soon.

The fact that they will not disclose the number of jobs that will be cut and don;t forget we will then have to pay for these people out of work, is concerning. The accountants are in charge now and any firm will tell you that once the bean counters start running the show its time for common sense and reality to disappear.

Surely putting people with an ounce of financial understanding in control is exactly the introduction of reality that is needed and has been so visibly absent under the previous government?

As for job loses, I expect that is for the relevant departments to now ascertain. Yes it's a shame but the previous government created too many public sector jobs. We cannot support them as a country. It's really that simple.

I love how they hit travel as though that will be a major saving. The reality of that is people still need to get around and there is often a degradation in the efficiency of departments when travel is stopped. The reality of commerce and business is that people have to move and get around

Two words: video conferencing. It won't always be a substitue but when times are tough you tighten your belt.

The LibDems's again are acting shamefully and the people who voted for them must now regret it. They are totally going against their manifesto pledges and to see them actively supporting the typical Tory assault on the public sector, is one that I never thought I would see happen. The LibDems are now finished and the merge into the Con's is virtually complete

Wibble.

[drat01]

Two words: video conferencing. It won't always be a substitue but when times are tough you tighten your belt.

Two words back - Don't work. Video conferencing is not an option, it satisfies about 1% of the needs for face to face meetings. You can achieve as much via a phone call as you can from VC. Your support Jon for the Tory policy is understandable but the facts are that cut backs on travel help no one except the accountants to boost their own self importance. The simple reality is that face to face meetings have to happen. What they are hoping to save in terms of monies is pennies and when you compare it to the lack of productivity means that you actually lose. Been there, seen it, suffered it and laughed at it each time it resurrects itself

You say Wibble but why is it? The LibDems have failed their voters and more and more of them are raising this as an issue as the ConDem's start to actually disclose their Tory led policies. Clegg has sold them down the river so that he can have his Andy Warhol moment.

IT firms that have been taking the living piss out of government contracts will certainly suffer, but I don't believe it will be putting the likes of IBM or Accenture out of business anytime soon.

Why focus on IT? There are lots of areas that have contracts with Gvmt departments that will suffer now because of this. Tony said before that the private sector was happy but that is just not the case. Certain areas may feel some happiness, based on what I don;t know but there are a lot of companies who will have to lay off staff as a result of these cutbacks. Interesting when the Tory party were spouting their rubbish about a tax on jobs pre election they are now forgetting what these actions will do. It's estimated that more people will lose their job because of these actions than any through NI increases.

Surely putting people with an ounce of financial understanding in control is exactly the introduction of reality that is needed and has been so visibly absent under the previous government?

Wrong again. Putting accountants in charge of financial expenditure is flawed and we see that in the "real world". Their priorities do not lie with the understanding of how the business runs or how you actually make money. If you think that bean counters are our salvation fair enough, my experiences of companies that use that tactic is that they stagnate and often shrink in terms of efficiency and usefulness.

[Awol]

Ian

Ok, so in your opinion they have got this all wrong. So tell me, what should the current government be doing to drastically reduce the structural deficit left to them by Labour's utter incompetence/financial incontinence?

I'm all ears....

[tonyh29]

Has anyone specified what all this travel is for ?

Of course if you are pitching for new business then it needs to be F2F but if it's just day to day business then email and a phone call is more than adequate ..

Tony said before that the private sector was happy but that is just not the case

I was talking generally to make the point about "politics" but saying that I've not seen any of the private sector mob come out against it yet so Yes the private sector is happy though no doubt you have a link to Mrs Miggins and her pie shop or something , saying otherwise ?

[drat01]

Ian

Ok, so in your opinion they have got this all wrong. So tell me, what should the current government be doing to drastically reduce the structural deficit left to them by Labour's utter incompetence/financial incontinence?

I'm all ears....

The timing and the severity is wrong. Before the election the Lib Dems and Labour said that and I think both were correct. The LibDems when they merged into becoming the Tory party dropped that as a philosophy. A lot of what they are announcing is hiding the real costs in terms of jobs and also trying to headline certain actions as though it will solve all of the issues - some of the punch lines they were using were toe curling.

We must ensure the timing is right. If spending is cut too soon, it would

undermine the much-needed recovery and cost jobs. We will base the timing

of cuts on an objective assessment of economic conditions, not political

dogma. Our working assumption is that the economy will be in a stable

enough condition to bear cuts from the beginning of 2011–12.

It's funny you still maintain this whole economic problems as being a Labour one and still conveniently forget that the rest of the world are experiencing the same issues.

[tonyh29]

It's funny you still maintain this whole economic problems as being a Labour one and still conveniently forget that the rest of the world are experiencing the same issues.

I thought Brown solved that when he claimed to have saved the world :-)

[Awol]

The public are still - seemingly - unaware of the severity of the cuts that are coming in the autumn. We are getting further into debt to the tune of 3.5 billion per week, we need 20-25% cuts across all departments just to eliminate the deficit and that's without begining to pay off what we actually owe.

It's going to be carnage and the only people to blame for that are the previous, financially ruinous government.

[drat01]

Absolutely and utterly disagree with your statement there Jon, but that is old ground. You will never be convinced that anything but a "It was Labour's fault" for every issue, I suspect. The LibDems have done a complete and utter about face sell out in order that they can enjoy their pieces of Gideon's silver, the actions of the "haves" are now about to hit hard on the "have nots" - and I know which parties I will blame 100% for that - the ConDem's!

[Awol]

It's funny you still maintain this whole economic problems as being a Labour one and still conveniently forget that the rest of the world are experiencing the same issues.

What's funny os your continued insistence, despite being shown time and again why you are wrong, that the two parties have merged. A coalition is not a merger.

However, due to Labour's policy of spending everything during the boom, borrowing more then spunking that as well, we were very poorly placed when the recession hit. 'First in, last out' is a badge of pride in the military, in a recession it's the mark of incompetence.

Largest debt in Europe, largest deficit in Europe..that my old mukker is down to Gordon the terrible.

I believe your solution, ie, don't cut as much and cut later would see us dry raped by our creditors. That much should be obvious to anyone with a passing interest in the situation. Besides which 6 billion is barely scratching the surface and is effectively only two weeks worth of borrowing at legacy levels. I honestly believe Ian that you're another one who has no idea quite how much trouble we are in.

[drat01]

What's funny os your continued insistence, despite being shown time and again why you are wrong, that the two parties have merged. A coalition is not a merger.

And as pointed out to you the other day even the definition is the same. The fact that the LibDems are now so happy to embrace the Tory policy which is a complete U turn from their pre election and long held policy shows that they are one and the same now.

However, due to Labour's policy of spending everything during the boom, borrowing more then spunking that as well, we were very poorly placed when the recession hit. 'First in, last out' is a badge of pride in the military, in a recession it's the mark of incompetence.

Largest debt in Europe, largest deficit in Europe..that my old mukker is down to Gordon the terrible.

Oh dear we are now into Daily Mail territory with words like that and frankly its concerning. But again old old ground and you can spout out that stuff as much as you like

I believe your solution, ie, don't cut as much and cut later would see us dry raped by our creditors. That much should be obvious to anyone with a passing interest in the situation. Besides which 6 billion is barely scratching the surface and is effectively only two weeks worth of borrowing at legacy levels. I honestly believe Ian that you're another one who has no idea quite how much trouble we are in.

First thing - this not MY solution, this was in fact the LibDem solution before they merged and took up the ideas of Gideon and his hedge fund chums. So as for being "raped" by our creditors I really do think you are living in some fanciful world where the "bailiffs" will be send round in a Eastenders special. If we were in that much trouble as you mak out, and Jon I still do remember your predictions re Northern Rock and the advice for taking money out and keeping it under the bed :wink:, why are these "creditors" not "raping" us now?

The simple facts are being conveniently overlooked by you again and again, this is a world problem and very few exceptions are actually not suffering from it. We are part of a set of events that being impacted by happenings globally and in order that we don't get trampled over by the rest of the world we have to make sure that we don't at this moment take our steel toe caps off and replace them with flip-flops (see what I did there? :-) ). The actions being put in place now by Gideon and his party leaves us massively exposed - but we have to wait and see what exposure this will bring. I suppose if it all goes wrong we can move to Belize?

[snowychap]

we need 20-25% cuts across all departments just to eliminate the deficit...

I would guess the percentage of cuts would depend upon revenue increases and growth.

I think the Tories suggested that they reckoned their intended ratio was 1:1 (cuts:revenue increases - be that tax increases or an increase in revenue for other reasons).

I would say that's optimistic and it's more likely to be 2:3 (at least).

It won't (can't, I'd suggest) be done by cuts alone.

[snowychap]

Also, why wasn't this announcement made in the House?

Okay, I'll give them the announcement of their coalition deal but announcements of government action such as this ought to be made in Parliament.

Funny how that appears important to opposition parties but not to governments.

Plus ça change...

[drat01]

Also, why wasn't this announcement made in the House?

Okay, I'll give them the announcement of their coalition deal but announcements of government action such as this ought to be made in Parliament.

Funny how that appears important to opposition parties but not to governments.

Plus ça change...

To allow for a Q&A session - some pre arranged and some on the fly question from a media that was predominantly supporters of the political party giving it, would b a good bet. The ConDem's are going pretty much against everything they said while in opposition and their style is one of "bollox" to the protocol we are in charge so this is how it will be

[tonyh29]

The ConDem's are going pretty much against everything they said while in opposition

No I do believe they said they would do their best to remove the damages of 13 years of labour and already they are making a start .. good on them I say ...

[bickster]

What's funny os your continued insistence, despite being shown time and again why you are wrong, that the two parties have merged. A coalition is not a merger.

And as pointed out to you the other day even the definition is the same. The fact that the LibDems are now so happy to embrace the Tory policy which is a complete U turn from their pre election and long held policy shows that they are one and the same now.

So applying the same logic........

And as pointed out to you the other day even the definition is the same. The fact that the Tories are now so happy to embrace the LibDem policy which is a complete U turn from their pre election and long held policy shows that they are one and the same now.

But that somehow doesn't ring true because we know the Tories aren't Liberals. Its a coalition, a bit from one side and a bit from the other

Talk today even of ring fencing the NHS and Youth start up programs etc, that was Libdem policy wasn't it or did I get that wrong?

I'm not even really in favour of this coalition but I do think if we're to criticise it, we need to actually have something to criticise, they aint really done much contentious yet (apart from the 55% thing which I'm most definitely against). looking at those cuts today I think anyone in power would have done them, apart from Vince Cables dept those cuts are tiny. And I think the no first class thing is symbolic but theres nowt wrong with it imo, they might learn to live in the real world then ;-)

[bickster]

To allow for a Q&A session - some pre arranged and some on the fly question from a media that was predominantly supporters of the political party giving it, would b a good bet. The ConDem's are going pretty much against everything they said while in opposition and their style is one of "bollox" to the protocol we are in charge so this is how it will be

reminds me of Tony someone, not known for telling the truth, didn't he used to run a tory party?