Bolitics The New Condem Government

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Dacre? Awfully French sounding name...

[drat01]

Did tony really post the socialist worker as some attempt to justify the mail and cameron? .... :-)

You just get the feeling that this story re the mail and its motivations may just run a bit more. Will be interesting to see reactions on opinion polls (dear daily mail readers that is not a reference to the eastern european country)

[peterms]

 

I believe the smear tactic originates from the tory party's dirty tricks department, probably that toxic oozing aussie slimeball they've soiled the furniture with.  The Mail handled it badly, and compounded it by their utterly stupid intransigence.

It could just be Mr. Vagina Dialogues and his loathing of any idea that the Newspapers might be effectively controlled. Whichever, it's had the opposite effect to that intended, I'm sure.

 

 

Yes, that's definitely part of it.  Dacre is trying to punish Miliband for supporting Leveson, and at the same time warn Cameron about what could happen to him - though the Mail has been pretty unsupportive of Cameron, while still pumping out the right wing propaganda.

 

Dacre and the tories have an overlapping agenda in wanting to shaft Miliband, but they also have disagreements with each other.  More than one agenda in play here.

[StefanAVFC]

Non-Labour voters seem pissed as well

[peterms]

On the vile piece of shite that is Paul Dacre, Stephen Fry is worth reading.

 

This is an extract:

 

 

IL DUCE DACRE

I should add this, just because you have a Right To Know. Lord Dacre is himself a frothing autocrat. An absolutely foul-mouthed boss, who constantly screams the c word at just about anyone. He would have read my Open Letter to David Cameron and yelled that “that word removed Fry needs another **** dressing **** down” — just the kind of language that his paper would prissily decry of course, there’s the glory in the vile bastard’s hypocrisy. He sends his son to Eton, but somehow mocks me for being posh. He bullies, swears and shrieks, but presents his paper as having the values and standards of a misty Midsomer Britain. He decries indecency on one page and pushes his male readers into a semi over a semi-nude actress on another. His cancer scare, miracle cure stories are sickeningly anti-science and the only good thing to be said about his Mail is that no one decent or educated believes in it. Which is what you can say about psychics, mediums, homeopathy and the casting of runes, but that makes it, like them, more exploitative and wicked, not less.

 

Dacre is, all those who have had the misfortune to work for him assure me, just about as loathsome, self-regarding, morally putrid, vengeful and disgusting a man as it possible to be. His power is absolute. Cross him either in private or public and you will be assassinated by his sycophantic squad of columnist minions, all of them infected with his brand of repulsive hypocritical and gleeful spite, ready to vomit out a screed against the BBC (watch this hilarious Vine loop as an example http://entertainment.ie/wtf/Watch-If-you-think-Sky-News-was-bad-with-the-royal-baby-coverage/202884.htm ) or any other institution they hate.

 

 

[tonyh29]

Did Peter really quote Stephen Fry

Is it April Fools day ??

[peterms]

Did Peter really quote Stephen Fry

Is it April Fools day ??

 

I'm happy to quote any sane and sensible view, Tony.

 

But I don't recall ever having quoted the SOWshallist Workah!

 

Unlike your good self.  Perhaps your tastes are more eclectic, your reading more catholic than my own.

[tonyh29]

Did Peter really quote Stephen Fry Is it April Fools day ??

I'm happy to quote any sane and sensible view, Tony. But I don't recall ever having quoted the SOWshallist Workah! Unlike your good self. Perhaps your tastes are more eclectic, your reading more catholic than my own.

And yet you quote Stephen fry About that break you need .... The picture and the vile statement from the labour MP underneath it were to highlight the bile that labour people " and their supporters" were pushing at the time .... Of course they are probably too busy being full of themselves to notice the hypocrisy on view today by their supporters Edited October 1, 2013 by tonyh29

[tonyh29]

I believe the smear tactic originates from the tory party's dirty tricks department, probably that toxic oozing aussie slimeball they've soiled the furniture with. The Mail handled it badly, and compounded it by their utterly stupid intransigence.

It could just be Mr. Vagina Dialogues and his loathing of any idea that the Newspapers might be effectively controlled. Whichever, it's had the opposite effect to that intended, I'm sure.

Yes, that's definitely part of it. Dacre is trying to punish Miliband for supporting Leveson, and at the same time warn Cameron about what could happen to him - though the Mail has been pretty unsupportive of Cameron, while still pumping out the right wing propaganda.

Dacre and the tories have an overlapping agenda in wanting to shaft Miliband, but they also have disagreements with each other. More than one agenda in play here.

Definite as in Stephen Fry told you on twitter or definite as in you have proof ?

[peterms]

 

 

Did Peter really quote Stephen Fry

Is it April Fools day ??

I'm happy to quote any sane and sensible view, Tony.

But I don't recall ever having quoted the SOWshallist Workah!

Unlike your good self. Perhaps your tastes are more eclectic, your reading more catholic than my own.

 

And yet you quote Stephen fry

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's definitely part of it. Dacre is trying to punish Miliband for supporting Leveson, and at the same time warn Cameron about what could happen to him - though the Mail has been pretty unsupportive of Cameron, while still pumping out the right wing propaganda.

Dacre and the tories have an overlapping agenda in wanting to shaft Miliband, but they also have disagreements with each other. More than one agenda in play here.

Definite as in Stephen Fry told you on twitter or definite as in you have proof ?

 

So, what's your problem with Stephen Fry?

[tonyh29]

on opinion polls (dear daily mail readers that is not a reference to the eastern european country)

Poland is in Central Europe

It would be like someone saying Sheffield is in Humberside

[peterms]

 

on opinion polls (dear daily mail readers that is not a reference to the eastern european country)

Poland is in Central Europe

It would be like someone saying Sheffield is in Humberside

 

 

If you said that to John Prescott, he'd lamp you.

[tonyh29]

on opinion polls (dear daily mail readers that is not a reference to the eastern european country)

Poland is in Central Europe

It would be like someone saying Sheffield is in Humberside

If you said that to John Prescott, he'd lamp you.

Being in the Lords has mellowed him and he only punches things for insurance companies TV money these days

[peterms]

Tory MP takes principled stand against the appalling shite printed by the Mail.  Also references their fascist history.  That won't go down well.

 

 

Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith has launched an outspoken attack on the Daily Mail for its founder's support for "the Nazi cause", in the wake of the newspaper’s relentlessly hostile coverage of Ed Miliband’s late father.

 

Speaking at the Huffington Post UK’s fringe event at the Conservative Party conference in Manchester on Tuesday, the Tory backbencher defended the Labour leader's 'right of reply' article in Tuesday’s Mail, in which he accused the paper of a “character assassination” against his father, the Marxist thinker Ralph Miliband, who passed away in 1994.

 

Goldsmith said Miliband had a "reason to react" to the Mail’s "appalling article" on Saturday – headlined 'The Man Who Hated Britain' - and accused the Mail and its owners, the Rothermere family, of doing "more to pursue the Nazi cause prewar" than any other publication.

 

The Conservative MP for Richmond Park and North Kingston echoed the views of countless Twitter users by raising the Mail’s past associations with fascism and Nazism.

 

He said it was "odd for a newspaper to judge a man on the basis of the history of his family when that newspaper is owned by a family that did more to pursue the Nazi cause prewar than any other [publication]".

 

Referencing Harold Harmsworth, the first Viscount Rothermere and proprietor of the Mail, who lavished praise on the Nazis in the run-up to the Second World War, Goldsmith remarked:

 

"[Joseph] Goebbels himself wrote endless documents about Rothermere, describing him as being a strong ally and strongly against the Jews. Those are the words he used. ‘Strongly against the Jews’. Has Rothermere aplogised? Have we ever had an apology from the Mail, or the Mail group, in relation to their history."

 

The current Viscount Rothermere, Jonathan Harmsworth, is the chairman of DMGT, the publisher of the Daily Mail.

 

Goldsmith continued:

 

"Maybe they’ll say it doesn’t matter don’t judge a paper or current person on the back of their history. In which case. Leave the guy alone."

 

The MP’s comments are the strongest condemnation of the Mail so far from a Conservative Party figure. Speaking on the Today programme on Tuesday morning, David Cameron said he understood Miliband’s anger about his father but wouldn’t criticise the Mail, saying he had not read the original piece. Health secretary Jeremy Hunt refused to condemn the Mail as well, preferring to highlight Ralph Miliband’s opposition to free markets in an interview with the BBC News Channel.

 

Speaking at the fringe event, the Tory backbencher also recalled the Mail’s attacks on his own late father, Sir James Goldsmith, the billionaire businessman and founder of the Referendum Party.

 

“The Daily Mail are always going for my father who died in 1997,” he told the 100-strong audience in Manchester. “So I am used to that aspect of it.”

 

In December 2011, the Mail's Ephraim Hardcastle column accused Goldsmith Snr of having claim that the victims of the Holocaust "lacked the initiative to get out" and the paper was forced to later "clarify he said no such thing".

 

Goldsmith Jnr revealed that he "waged war against the Daily Mail, not with lawyers, but using my sister [Jemima] and her army of Twitter followers, and, within 24 hours we got a grovelling letter of apology from [Mail editor Paul] Dacre himself, which is now up on the wall in my loo. It’s something I’m very proud of."

 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

'Land of opportunity'.

 

I'm not sure tapping into the American Dream works outside the small percentage of people (on these islands) who still see the US as the ideal.

 

Although, it is further proof of what many have believed for years - that the centre-right is becoming increasingly 'American'. Fortunately we don't do religion. Not yet at least. I don't think it is too far fetched to imagine a Tory party torn between 'conservative' Tories, (CoE, middle-class white people, UKIP sympathisers), and the more 'moderate' Tories who are a little more European (yes, you heard!) in outlook (Cameron, despite trying to woo the older crowd, is one of them), who are more focused on £££ than whether or not certain people can marry.

Edited October 2, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[drat01]

 

................

The picture and the vile statement from the labour MP underneath it were to highlight the bile that labour people " and their supporters" were pushing at the time .... Of course they are probably too busy being full of themselves to notice the hypocrisy on view today by their supporters

 

 

Oh Tony, Tony Tony, the noise of scraping is obviously the new larger barrel you have purchased (tax free? ). All you are doing now is displaying a support for the Mail as I see it (and anyone "liking" your posts, IMO). I appreciate you are still trying to deflect any scrutiny away from the Tory party (and fellow right wing views) and it's leadership (and members) with the way it has been reacting, but your, what looks like a defence of the Mail and it's tactics is somewhat head scratching. Your quite weak attempts to link an article in the Socialist worker is poor even for the most desperate, do you not agree and to then try and link that to Labour in some way - and in turn Milliband (?) is something that is either being the biggest devils advocate ever or quite a weak and desperate attempt to prove a point.

 

It seems as quoted above that even some of the more controversial Tory MP's are fully behind the stance of Milliband and those fair minded people who are now vilifying the Mail and those who have supported it's stance. It's a shame that Cameron et al could have not been more forceful in their reply, but as Trent pointed out, you would not expect him to do so, a missed opportunity for him (even if he did not believe what he was saying). Fair minded and rational people I would say have a fairly clear view on this whole episode in that the Mail are totally at fault with what is a vile attempt to score some political headway against Milliband. I fail to see how anyone can really justify them, the message or anything but condemnation of what they have tried to do. Unfortunately, with attempts to put up pics from Soc Worker, talks about Thatcher, Prescott etc, is quite desperate etc.

 

Still we should not gloat over other's mistakes, eh?

[drat01]

'Land of opportunity'.

 

I'm not sure tapping into the American Dream works outside the small percentage of people (on these islands) who still see the US as the ideal.

 

Although, it is further proof of what many have believed for years - that the centre-right is becoming increasingly 'American'. Fortunately we don't do religion. Not yet at least. I don't think it is too far fetched to imagine a Tory party torn between 'conservative' Tories, (CoE, middle-class white people, UKIP sympathisers), and the more 'moderate' Tories who are a little more European (yes, you heard!) in outlook (Cameron, despite trying to woo the older crowd, is one of them), who are more focused on £££ than whether or not certain people can marry.

You say we don't "do" religion, but look at the recent Tax announcements and the emphasis on things like marriage. While not all mariage is based on religion it certainly fits in the same area of thought

[tonyh29]

drat01, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:drat01, on 02 Oct 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

 

All you are doing now is displaying a support for the Mail as I see it (and anyone "liking" your posts, IMO). I appreciate you are still trying to deflect any scrutiny away from the Tory party (and fellow right wing views) and it's leadership (and members) with the way it has been reacting, but your, what looks like a defence of the Mail and it's tactics is somewhat head scratching. Your quite weak attempts to link an article in the Socialist worker is poor even for the most desperate, do you not agree and to then try and link that to Labour in some way - and in turn Milliband (?) is something that is either being the biggest devils advocate ever or quite a weak and desperate attempt to prove a point.

 

 

 

that's the trouble with being myopic ... however , I'm not actually aware that anyone on this thread has defended the Mail 

 

the posts have been about why Cameron didn't come out offering a tearful apology for something that has nothing to do with him and then pretty much going around and around in circles to come back to the same place where we started 

 

 

the points you raised were to show the usual hypocrisy  but at least you managed to spell weak right today

Edited October 2, 2013 by tonyh29

[colhint]

I think you may have missed the earlier debate about the Mail. Tony did not defend them. In fact he said they came out poorly. Someone then said that Cameron should have said something. At which point Tony pointed out that Cameron said on R4 that Ed had every right to be angry. Later on someone posted that Prescott had said Cameron was right in what he said. After that someone kept saying he should have said more. Whether he should or not, who knows. Tony then put up the SW image as an example . Not to defend the mail but to make the comparison and  to say should Ed have said something about that.

But at no time did he Defend the mail

[drat01]

You see Tony is your haste to defend the Tory party and Cameron you have missed the point completely - first rule of driving look all around. The comments have been made re condemnation of the article, which I am now assuming you agree is an awful piece that should never have been printed let alone stated? Political parties and let's be honest the PM have been involved in some pretty interesting legislation and procedures recently with the press and talk of respect etc. Now Cameron (and others like the toad that is Hunt especially) could have and should have said more in the way of condemning the article and the subsequent rhetoric from the Mail, they sadly didn't. That was a big mistake on their part and they should have serious looks as to why they didn't and what the larger agenda is.

 

You come along and start quoting the Soc Worker in some way trying to link that as some sort of justification along with other nonsense, talking about Brown, Prescott anyone and everyone that has little relevance to what is a big story, and the easy (and IMO fair) accusation of deflection and "ahh but Labour ..." are thrown at you. I appreciate by your constant references and long running sigs that you like to play the "game" of anything and anyone but Labour / Milliband, but the reality is the story is quite a serious one for what it actually stands for and what it's actually saying and how people are being judged. Do you not agree?

 

So shall we have no more references to obscure publications that have little or no relevance to the subject, no references to Prescott etc :-)

 

 

p.s. your obsession with Sheffield is somewhat interesting, I wonder what point you are trying to make? ......