Bolitics The New Condem Government

[drat01]

another one of this Gvmt more scandalous laws comes into place today, conveniently sneaked in with little fanfare and no doubt loved by those that contribute the millions to the Tory party.

 

From today basically this Gvmt is making people pay for the privilege of questioning an employer if they are unfairly dismissed.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23482520

Edited July 29, 2013 by drat01

[drat01]

 

. I don't see much, or any, read-across to labour votes from this. Do you? Why?

Apart from the obvious , cause they defected to the BNP as they share similiar ideals rather than UKIP who share similiar Tory Ideals .. Though in the Brown era that does seem to have been a temporary flirtation based on the BNP vote subsequently getting wiped out ... Possibly repeated with UKIP ??

But Labour seem worried enough about UKIP .....

http://labourlist.org/2013/06/labour-must-not-let-ukip-win-working-class-votes/

Edit: not suggesting Labour is a racist party before someone suggests it ...,

 

and again we see this quite feeble attempt to link Labour and the BNP again, why do you persist with this. Interestingly you bring it up after a previous comment re UKIp and the Tory party. Correct me if I am wrong has there ever been any BNP speeches at Labour conference, can you honestly ever see that happening. It's actually quite disturbing this continued attempt to make a link here, but shows more a desperation than anything else.

 

If you actually read that article that the was talked about on there you will see it was linked a piece in the Grud - is it now that the Grud is a mouthpiece of the Labour party? Most rational people will understand that UKIP has within it behind it devious political types who see that they can never succeed if they only target their allies in the Tory voters. (and interestingly from a Labour written website the comment and BNP , EDL being right wing seems to have been missed)

 

But I suppose when we have a Gvmt led by an incompetent Tory party, I suppose the best way of allowing them to continue imposing the god awful policies is to deflect attention and to blame others. They seemingly have convinced some and have enough people on ground floor happy to spread the message

Edited July 29, 2013 by drat01

[villaajax]

Fees for Employment Tribunals Begin

 

Thanks to the Tories, people will now have to pay a fee of either £160 or £250 just to lodge a claim for a tribunal with a further fee of either £230 or £950 if it goes ahead.

 

So if you're in a low income job or perhaps you're just being squeezed by the failing Tory policies and have reason to take your employer to a tribunal... too bad!

[robojoel]

Fees for Employment Tribunals Begin

 

Thanks to the Tories, people will now have to pay a fee of either £160 or £250 just to lodge a claim for a tribunal with a further fee of either £230 or £950 if it goes ahead.

 

So if you're in a low income job or perhaps you're just being squeezed by the failing Tory policies and have reason to take your employer to a tribunal... too bad!

Absolutely disgusting. Its like these scumbags know that they only have a limited time and are moving as much in the way of assets into the hands of and law in favour of the rich elite. It is a barefaced and unashamed controlled demolition everything that is still positive in this country In the greedy interests of the rich elite. I for one hope they and their supporters rot in hell, unfortunately I fear the people whose lives will become a living hell as a result will be the poorest, sickest and most underprivileged. But of course the Tory scum don't give a **** about that as they are inevitably either ignorant or selfish, sometimes both.

[villamark]

People use ET as a way of blackmailing empolyers, they know it costs an employer money to get a case prepared, the ampount of time HR spend on it plus getting legal advice.  Most employers give a grand or two to avoid the cost of going to ET, the only problem with this policy is thast the fee should be much higher.

[tonyh29]

another one of this Gvmt more scandalous laws comes into place today, conveniently sneaked in with little fanfare and no doubt loved by those that contribute the millions to the Tory party.

 

 

 

 

you keep harping on about this but conveniently forget people like Lord Sainsbury who have donated between £10 - £15 million  to Labour ** 

 

no doubt he did it as a sense of duty

 

 

** and withdrew his funding as Ed is so "average"

[tonyh29]

 

Fees for Employment Tribunals Begin

 

Thanks to the Tories, people will now have to pay a fee of either £160 or £250 just to lodge a claim for a tribunal with a further fee of either £230 or £950 if it goes ahead.

 

So if you're in a low income job or perhaps you're just being squeezed by the failing Tory policies and have reason to take your employer to a tribunal... too bad!

Absolutely disgusting. Its like these scumbags know that they only have a limited time and are moving as much in the way of assets into the hands of and law in favour of the rich elite. It is a barefaced and unashamed controlled demolition everything that is still positive in this country In the greedy interests of the rich elite. I for one hope they and their supporters rot in hell, unfortunately I fear the people whose lives will become a living hell as a result will be the poorest, sickest and most underprivileged. But of course the Tory scum don't give a **** about that as they are inevitably either ignorant or selfish, sometimes both.

 

 

 

The number of tribunal claims rose by 81% between 2001 and 2011, with the administrative costs being borne by taxpayers up until now.

 

I suspect from that rise in claims that either bosses have been getting nastier  ..or people have been making frivolous claims

 

maybe this will result in fewer people chancing their arm   ?

 

 

slightly linked but it was reported that car insurance premiums are dropping  ..one of the main factors being that fraudulent claims have been stopped  and the whiplash culture is coming to an end  .... maybe the idea is to do the same with tribunals  ?

[tonyh29]

 

Fees for Employment Tribunals Begin

 

Thanks to the Tories, people will now have to pay a fee of either £160 or £250 just to lodge a claim for a tribunal with a further fee of either £230 or £950 if it goes ahead.

 

So if you're in a low income job or perhaps you're just being squeezed by the failing Tory policies and have reason to take your employer to a tribunal... too bad!

Absolutely disgusting. Its like these scumbags know that they only have a limited time and are moving as much in the way of assets into the hands of and law in favour of the rich elite. It is a barefaced and unashamed controlled demolition everything that is still positive in this country In the greedy interests of the rich elite. I for one hope they and their supporters rot in hell, unfortunately I fear the people whose lives will become a living hell as a result will be the poorest, sickest and most underprivileged. But of course the Tory scum don't give a **** about that as they are inevitably either ignorant or selfish, sometimes both.

 

 

 

the true voice of the labour party I see

 

what a disgusting thing to say  ....  so someone puts their X in the Box for the Tory party and suddenly they are up there with Harold Shipman  and the catholic church on the evil list  .... bonkers  , absolutely bonkers

[drat01]

 

another one of this Gvmt more scandalous laws comes into place today, conveniently sneaked in with little fanfare and no doubt loved by those that contribute the millions to the Tory party.

 

 

 

 

you keep harping on about this but conveniently forget people like Lord Sainsbury who have donated between £10 - £15 million  to Labour ** 

 

no doubt he did it as a sense of duty

 

 

** and withdrew his funding as Ed is so "average"

 

Blimey the "ahh but Labour" thing did have a good holiday. It seems he needs to get into any and every reply now

 

Funny how you conveniently ignore commenting on the point in hand re the scandalous way that people will now be charged and who will benefit - any chance of that?

[drat01]

 

 

Fees for Employment Tribunals Begin

 

Thanks to the Tories, people will now have to pay a fee of either £160 or £250 just to lodge a claim for a tribunal with a further fee of either £230 or £950 if it goes ahead.

 

So if you're in a low income job or perhaps you're just being squeezed by the failing Tory policies and have reason to take your employer to a tribunal... too bad!

Absolutely disgusting. Its like these scumbags know that they only have a limited time and are moving as much in the way of assets into the hands of and law in favour of the rich elite. It is a barefaced and unashamed controlled demolition everything that is still positive in this country In the greedy interests of the rich elite. I for one hope they and their supporters rot in hell, unfortunately I fear the people whose lives will become a living hell as a result will be the poorest, sickest and most underprivileged. But of course the Tory scum don't give a **** about that as they are inevitably either ignorant or selfish, sometimes both.

 

 

 

the true voice of the labour party I see

 

what a disgusting thing to say  ....  so someone puts their X in the Box for the Tory party and suddenly they are up there with Harold Shipman  and the catholic church on the evil list  .... bonkers  , absolutely bonkers

 

So where is any of that related to Labour? - "ahhh but Labour" ...... sigh, I forgot that is the only reply

[Risso]

 

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

 

I can see why you've chosen to work with numbers, not words.

 

 

It wasn't my post that was poorly phrased, leaving it open to misinterpretation.

[tonyh29]

 

 

another one of this Gvmt more scandalous laws comes into place today, conveniently sneaked in with little fanfare and no doubt loved by those that contribute the millions to the Tory party.

 

 

 

 

you keep harping on about this but conveniently forget people like Lord Sainsbury who have donated between £10 - £15 million  to Labour ** 

 

no doubt he did it as a sense of duty

 

 

** and withdrew his funding as Ed is so "average"

 

Blimey the "ahh but Labour" thing did have a good holiday. It seems he needs to get into any and every reply now

 

Funny how you conveniently ignore commenting on the point in hand re the scandalous way that people will now be charged and who will benefit - any chance of that?

 

 

 

I did  .. you just conveniently forgot to read it

[drat01]

People use ET as a way of blackmailing empolyers, they know it costs an employer money to get a case prepared, the ampount of time HR spend on it plus getting legal advice.  Most employers give a grand or two to avoid the cost of going to ET, the only problem with this policy is thast the fee should be much higher.

 

I would be interested to see / hear your evidence for that, especially the blackmail comment.

 

Maybe the fact that workers rights are so eroded now is worthy of consideration and the costs impacts of any righting wrongs that typically happen when employers act illegally / immorally (or both) are worthy of debate?

 

The way I read your comments is that only people with money should have the right to legally question these things? 1600 pounds for a full hearing is a pretty serious amount of money - especially as you are claiming it should be more. I wonder how many people can / would afford that?

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

 

Absolutely disgusting. Its like these scumbags know that they only have a limited time and are moving as much in the way of assets into the hands of and law in favour of the rich elite. It is a barefaced and unashamed controlled demolition everything that is still positive in this country In the greedy interests of the rich elite. I for one hope they and their supporters rot in hell, unfortunately I fear the people whose lives will become a living hell as a result will be the poorest, sickest and most underprivileged. But of course the Tory scum don't give a **** about that as they are inevitably either ignorant or selfish, sometimes both.

 

 

 

the true voice of the labour party I see

 

what a disgusting thing to say  ....  so someone puts their X in the Box for the Tory party and suddenly they are up there with Harold Shipman  and the catholic church on the evil list  .... bonkers  , absolutely bonkers

 

So where is any of that related to Labour? - "ahhh but Labour" ...... sigh, I forgot that is the only reply

 

 

it's quite clear which party he supports 

 

 

so I take it from your lack of condemnation that you approve of his comment then 

[Risso]

Surely the idea of the move is that it encourages employers and employees to sort things out before it gets as far as a tribunal, which can only be good for the employee in any case.  I know how much employment tribunals can cost a business.  Even when it's an open and shut case, where the correct process has been followed to the letter, if people want to go to a tribunal it can cost a business thousands.  This is an example like the insurance fraud that Tony mentions, of people without a legitimate claim spoiling it for everybody else.

[drat01]

Surely the idea of the move is that it encourages employers and employees to sort things out before it gets as far as a tribunal, which can only be good for the employee in any case.  I know how much employment tribunals can cost a business.  Even when it's an open and shut case, where the correct process has been followed to the letter, if people want to go to a tribunal it can cost a business thousands.  This is an example like the insurance fraud that Tony mentions, of people without a legitimate claim spoiling it for everybody else.

But it doesn't Mart. Now you have lodge a claim to get the process started of a few hundred quid. For so many that is something they will not be able to afford, basically the rights of workers have been eroded further and the righer in society, which are typically the companies and those that own them are favoured - that can never be a fair system

[Eames]

Massive caveat  I haven't read any of the details of the change to Employment Tribunals I may be totally off piste

 

But, IMO it is too easy to take these matters to tribunal and they are often used as a speculative wind up by disgruntled employees. In any other comparable situation eg. Small Claims Court, the claimant is required to pay the costs of launching the proceedings, as long as the costs are recoverable if the claim is successful I can't really see whats wrong with the change? Its not an unreasonable decision and the costs suggested don't really appear to me to be excessive. 

 

I wholly agree that employees need protection from unscrupulous employers in the case of wrongful dismissal or harassment but I can't see how the fees would make this less likely to happen. 

 

Equally, isn't this what people also join Trade Unions for? Surely if the Unions feel so strongly about these changes they could alleviate the misery this terrible changes will make by footing the bill for their members so they can pursue such cases? They'll have all that spare cash they're not giving to Labour to spend on something won't they? 

[drat01]

 

 

 

it's quite clear which party he supports 

 

 

so I take it from your lack of condemnation that you approve of his comment then 

 

Tony - here is one for you - you have claimed on VT before that you are not a Tory and have voted for Lib Dems and UKIP. So would you classify yourself as a Tory, UKIP or Lib Dem? Assuming you go for one of them, would you attribute any of your (often controversial - sometimes IMO offensive - sometimes by your own admission posted for effect) as being the words of the respective part(ies) that you support? Of course not - unless you are getting a "feed"

 

As for the rot in hell comment - then what is the issue? Is that as bad as hoping people get killed in some nuclear accident like you were writing on here not so long back? What about the other things you have done a lot of recently, like questioning sanity or other "insults"? I can see what you are trying to do here, but TBH you are not doing a good job at it - obligatory : If you have problems with the comments then report them to the mods and see if they feel the same as you

 

In respect to the issue here and those that support it, it certainly does seem to favour those that have monies and not the workers. Convince us otherwise can you?

[snowychap]

maybe this will result in fewer people chancing their arm ?

I'd have thought that was quite likely and I;d have thought that it was equally as likely that this would result in fewer genuine claims being begun/continued.

I don't think the government are in any way concerned about the latter, indeed I'd take a punt that they would view it as an added bonus.

...I know how much employment tribunals can cost a business...

As per the comment of a lawyer* in the Beeb article, perhaps an unintended consequence may be a larger cost to (some) businesses in terms of payouts?

*

One of the effects of the new system should be a rise in the value of settlement offers for low-value claims. Offering £500 as an economic offer to settle is not likely to be attractive to a claimant who has paid £1,200 to bring a claim.

[villamark]

 

People use ET as a way of blackmailing empolyers, they know it costs an employer money to get a case prepared, the ampount of time HR spend on it plus getting legal advice.  Most employers give a grand or two to avoid the cost of going to ET, the only problem with this policy is thast the fee should be much higher.

 

I would be interested to see / hear your evidence for that, especially the blackmail comment.

 

Maybe the fact that workers rights are so eroded now is worthy of consideration and the costs impacts of any righting wrongs that typically happen when employers act illegally / immorally (or both) are worthy of debate?

 

The way I read your comments is that only people with money should have the right to legally question these things? 1600 pounds for a full hearing is a pretty serious amount of money - especially as you are claiming it should be more. I wonder how many people can / would afford that?

 

Wife works in HR, quite a few employees put in cliams knowing the employer will pay out rather than spend thousands of pounds winning a case at ET.  it's a numbers thing, they end up doing a comprimise agreement because it is cheaper.  How about the empoyee pays the employers legal fees if they lose.