economic situation is dire

[Awol]

Point scoring Gringo?

Eh? :? People are allowed to criticise the abortion currently in power in this country I believe - for now at least.

Never mind though those nice chaps in the banking and counting world will still keep making a few quid and the "oiks" will be put into their place, eh?

Also no need to make personal cheap shots is there??

Several alternative proposals to borrowing this country into 30 years of debt have been put forward, for example direct lending by the BoE to business to keep SME's that are otherwise sound, running. Fact is no one is saying this a UK only problem, but pointing out that Brown's assertion we are best placed to recover being in direct contradiction of the IMF and other international bodies is fair cop.

Here's another one:

"British jobs for British workers". Oops.

[Gringo]

Point scoring Gringo?

Funny how you still fail to mention any sort of global impact while you keep on with your crusade against the current government. I wonder if you are so vociferous about the Spanish gvmt or is there less impact in a small taverna?

Post on poster surely?

Funny how you still fail to mention any sort of global

I'm sure I've referenced "global" conditions quite a few times, but hey ho doesn't suit the mantra.

When the global boom was going on one party claimed that it was responsilbe for the growth of the economy, whilst the other claimed it was their assured management.

Now the boom has bust one party is claiming it is the failure of the global economy whilst the other claims it was the result of their opponents mismanagement.

Workers all around the world are starting to protest. In Russia, in France, are these because of the actions and policies of teh UK gvmt?

As referenced on the previous pages myself - obviously ignorant to the global impact?

People are now getting fed up with moaners and want to see doers.

Nope. As referred to myself on the previous pages, people are are getting fed up with those claiiming no responsibility for the issue. I quoted reasonably respected political and economic commentators and you posted.......?

those who see this all as a UK only issue.

Please point to any post on this board or any political / economic commentator who has express such an opinion. I believe all people understand this is a global concern, but also the majority of people hold individual countries' leaders and failure of those countries leaders to regulate responsible. You can't have global collective responsiblity of failure if no one ultimately is to blame. They all are.

You get the impression that some are not happy unless they are unhappy

Post on poster again surely.

Never mind though those nice chaps in the banking and counting world will still keep making a few quid and the "oiks" will be put into their place, eh?

As someone currently consulting for two investment banks on their risk strategy, lets hope so.

[drat01]

Post on poster surely?

I suggest you look at the wording of your first post before you start that game again Gringo - and just as a reminder still waiting for an apology that you promised a few months back .....

I'm sure I've referenced "global" conditions quite a few times, but hey ho doesn't suit the mantra.

Nope - again your post is very pointed (again) in it's condemnation with little or no reference to other economies - but hay mantra and all that

Please point to any post on this board or any political / economic commentator who has express such an opinion. I believe all people understand this is a global concern, but also the majority of people hold individual countries' leaders and failure of those countries leaders to regulate responsible. You can't have global collective responsiblity of failure if no one ultimately is to blame. They all are.

what an interesting comment. So every post has to refer only and singly to something someone here says and then you claim post on poster when anyone challenges you. Or is it basically no one can question you? You contradict yourself in your statement, but I suspect that is a round and around argument. Maybe what you are advocating is a change of EVERY government, and maybe a change of EVERY financial body? As the PM has said there is nothing that we can relate to in the past to compare to this. It's like comparing Villa's defeat at Doncaster a few years back to the 0-0 draw last week. Same "teams" but a whole set of different circumstances. Maybe MON should have done what you are suggesting and not bothering with any sort of tactics or team talk before the replay as it will sort itself out?

Nope. As referred to myself on the previous pages, people are are getting fed up with those claiiming no responsibility for the issue. I quoted reasonably respected political and economic commentators and you posted.......?

Nope what? Maybe in Spain you didn't get the opportunity to see any of the political TV and comments of recent when even Robinson admitted that the personal attacks on Brown from the Tory party were now starting to irritate people and they wanted actions or at least alternative policies. Maybe if your agenda is different and one of happy being unhappy then constant moaning would be your best suggestion. Not sure of what the outcome will be, but just as long as some are happy eh?

Post on poster again surely.

You are being sponsored for this phrase? Unless of course you are saying that you fit into that category? If you do then great at least we know for certain what makes you tick. If not then why are you worrying about it? Do you not agree that for some they would find fault with anything?

As someone currently consulting for two investment banks on their risk strategy, lets hope so.

and good luck to you on that project.

[drat01]

Eh? Confused People are allowed to criticise the abortion currently in power in this country I believe - for now at least.

A frankly ridiculous post Jon

Also no need to make personal cheap shots is there??

What the hell are you trying to say here? So there should be no condemnation for any of the banking sector, no condemnation of the counters, no condemation of people like Jim Rogers etc - obviously then we can only condemn Labour and Brown under your rules, how fair of you.

Several alternative proposals to borrowing this country into 30 years of debt have been put forward, for example direct lending by the BoE to business to keep SME's that are otherwise sound, running. Fact is no one is saying this a UK only problem, but pointing out that Brown's assertion we are best placed to recover being in direct contradiction of the IMF and other international bodies is fair cop.

Alternatives that have basically been dismissed as fanciful and not working. How come other major countries have not taken these wonderful ideas up? Believe it or not but the IMF have known to be wrong at worst and slightly off with their predictions at best. No one has said that this country is not facing major problems. Actions are what is needed. Can you imagine if a country was not so dependent on the financial sector? Can you imagine if a country who's prominence in the world came about from a mix of industry, finance and a whole load of other things had most of them killed off in some sort of ideology exercise to crush unions and the like?

Times are tough everyone knows that, the WORLD knows that. Flicking a few switches and changing a few people to replace them with others who have no clue isn't the best solution, despite what the constant whine and moan may say

And just for you Jon have a look at this IMF appointment from a few years back .......

Hmmmm

[snowychap]

Never mind though those nice chaps in the banking and counting world will still keep making a few quid

Perhaps the banking people might go and get a peerage/a cabinet position/a consultancy role with the treasury/a well paid job with UKFI?

[drat01]

Never mind though those nice chaps in the banking and counting world will still keep making a few quid

Perhaps the banking people might go and get a peerage/a cabinet position/a consultancy role with the treasury/a well paid job with UKFI?

Maybe they will maybe they wont, was there a reason you posted that Snowy?

Maybe they will contribute millions to the Tory party via offshore accounts?

Maybe they will give all their money to Bob Geldof

[snowychap]

Maybe they will maybe they wont

I'd suggest a lot already have.

was there a reason you posted that Snowy?

Yes. I wanted to.

[mykeyb]

Eh? Confused People are allowed to criticise the abortion currently in power in this country I believe - for now at least.

A frankly ridiculous post Jon

Why?

[tonyh29]

Alternatives that have basically been dismissed as fanciful and not working.

by who ? the panic stricken government of this country ?

The governemnt have tried just about everything else ..and it's failed ..maybe the alternatives would have been better after all ??

we came out the last recession strong based on the very same alternatives that you've decided won't work

Most experts and now even Brown's own friends are fairly open that whilst some events were outside of the government control they have to accept more than their fair share of the blame for the mishandling of the economy ... even his friends are saying it there can't be many left now who think he is blameless ....

It's hard for you to accept as you've kinda brought into the myth of Gordon the great chancellor ... I've been saying for years he was a charlatan .. history is proving me correct ...

[ianrobo1]

for example you say loads of borrowing but this was needed to stop at least 4 major UK banks from collapsing

Some Rabi in the US said recently , that instead of giving $800 bn to bail out banks that were irresponsible and failing , why not use the money to create a well run peoples bank and let the others go to the wall

Interesting thought ....

all those having a go at the current policies of the US, UK and German governments still fail to answer if they would have allowed bofA, Citibank, AIG, JP Morgan, HBOS, RBS, B&B, Northern rock an a few others go under

and what they think the impact of that would have been given we saw what happened to Lehman;s ?

[drat01]

by who

Hmm let me think - now which country has adopted them? ............. answers on the back of a postage stamp please

[Gringo]

I'm sure I've referenced "global" conditions quite a few times, but hey ho doesn't suit the mantra.

Nope - again your post is very pointed (again) in it's condemnation with little or no reference to other economies - but hay mantra and all that

So the posts on the previous pages referring to greece and france are invisible. Fair enough.

Please point to any post on this board or any political / economic commentator who has express such an opinion. I believe all people understand this is a global concern, but also the majority of people hold individual countries' leaders and failure of those countries leaders to regulate responsible. You can't have global collective responsiblity of failure if no one ultimately is to blame. They all are.

what an interesting comment. So every post has to refer only and singly to something someone here says and then you claim post on poster when anyone challenges you. Or is it basically no one can question you? You contradict yourself in your statement, but I suspect that is a round and around argument. Maybe what you are advocating is a change of EVERY government, and maybe a change of EVERY financial body?

Nope. I said nothing of the sort. Your response is nonsensical. When I posted a few pages back I quoted pages from commentators who were of that opinion. You merely say some rabid right wing commentator said something sometime. links are nice. And I doubt it was I who started the 'post on poster' game. My post which commented on one persons changing views whilst yours centred on personal attacks on a consistently held position. My views on the failure of the bush/blair/brown dogma was well publicised before the advent of the crush/crash times. Maybe what I have been saying for a few years of the failure of the govt to implement a socialist agenda is being emphasised in the current environemnt. Because I started on this thread with an anti-brown agenda that didn't suit the I'm alright jack brigade who thought the crash woudln't affect them and maintained such a stance is surely a strong point. If you want to post some of my previous quotes back to me that contradict such a poistion, feel free.

As the PM has said there is nothing that we can relate to in the past to compare to this.

The PM has said a lott of things

* No boom and bust

* short and shallow

* not my fault

All wrong, 10 years presiding over a failure of regulation? Becuase he was too scared to regulate. Just what you need in a strong leader to bring you out of this mess

Maybe if your agenda is different and one of happy being unhappy then constant moaning would be your best suggestion. Not sure of what the outcome will be, but just as long as some are happy eh?

What is this nonsense? You posted the same claptrap on the obama thread, when I was posting more positive stuff about obama than the labourites who were still pushing for hilary. Maybe the comments aren't connected, or maybe just becoming a theme. Some people just like being unhappy for no reason. Maybe there isn't a recession after all and it's just people moaning for the sake of it.

As someone currently consulting for two investment banks on their risk strategy, lets hope so.

and good luck to you on that project.

Thanks, they need all the help they can get.

[drat01]

Why?

Because it is? Care to share some sort of contribution to this thread?

[Gringo]

Never mind though those nice chaps in the banking and counting world will still keep making a few quid

Perhaps the banking people might go and get a peerage/a cabinet position/a consultancy role with the treasury/a well paid job with UKFI?

Let's hope so. Lord Gringo of Northfield has a great ring to it. And then I can earn fortunes amending legislation on the fly for two days a a week.

[Gringo]

all those having a go at the current policies of the US, UK and German governments still fail to answer if they would have allowed bofA, Citibank, AIG, JP Morgan, HBOS, RBS, B&B, Northern rock an a few others go under

and what they think the impact of that would have been given we saw what happened to Lehman;s ?

As some bloke said earlier

In the interview Mr Brown said: "This is the first financial crisis of the global age. And there is no clear map that has been set out from past experience to deal with it.

...

"We're learning all the time about how to deal with what are real problems for which we have no historical analogies to fall back on, because when the 1930s problems hit them, they did not have the global financial markets that we have today."

They don't know what they are doing they are making it up as they go along. The only thing they do know is they got it wrong for the last 10-30 years but won't admit it.

[drat01]

Gringo - you are obviously up for a "fight" of some sort. You know the basis of the "post on poster" and what was said by the mods, shall we leave it there?

I can't be arsed playing your silly games

[ianrobo1]

all those having a go at the current policies of the US, UK and German governments still fail to answer if they would have allowed bofA, Citibank, AIG, JP Morgan, HBOS, RBS, B&B, Northern rock an a few others go under

and what they think the impact of that would have been given we saw what happened to Lehman;s ?

As some bloke said earlier

In the interview Mr Brown said: "This is the first financial crisis of the global age. And there is no clear map that has been set out from past experience to deal with it.

...

"We're learning all the time about how to deal with what are real problems for which we have no historical analogies to fall back on, because when the 1930s problems hit them, they did not have the global financial markets that we have today."

They don't know what they are doing they are making it up as they go along. The only thing they do know is they got it wrong for the last 10-30 years but won't admit it.

no anwered the question at all, given the current situation as clocks can not be turned back would you have rescued all the banks named above and if not you are aware of the consequences of this ?

Where we got now is the fault I am sure you would agree of ALL who signed up to the free market principles

[ianrobo1]

and of course the scapegoating has already started by peopel a few months back happy to work with 'forgeiners'

[Gringo]

Gringo - you are obviously up for a "fight" of some sort. You know the basis of the "post on poster" and what was said by the mods, shall we leave it there?

I can't be arsed playing your silly games

Nonsensical. My last post(s) contained nothing post on poster. Play on.

[Gringo]

no anwered the question at all, given the current situation as clocks can not be turned back would you have rescued all the banks named above and if not you are aware of the consequences of this ?

Where we got now is the fault I am sure you would agree of ALL who signed up to the free market principles

Including the blair/bush/brown axis or do we by pass their blame and move onto easier targets?