Clarry Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I think that if life meant LIFE in this country, there'd be far less people advocating the death penalty. that is true. that may make me think about changing my mind. also, if prisons meant no frills that would go some way to convincing me. its because prison is such a non-deterrent & non-punishment, that we are looking for the ultimate punishment. I take ir from your comments that you are a criminal then? Prison being so nice and all? Because I'm shit scared of doing anything that might get me locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 not according to the father who was arrested as in the smacking thread. He said he was cold and had only one blanket not according to Kate Adie who said on R5 on sunday that some of the prisons here and nop better than ones in the far east she has visited the myth is that prisons are comfy and yes if you behvae yourself, not get into trouble there are privledges but few prisoners get these and anyone who knows my family background will be aware I know what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myb Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 can you prove it would be TT ? how about the parents of this 'poor lambs' who smash things up they would have had corporal piunishment if the same age as me, surely it had a positive effect on them ? there is no proof at all that capitial punishment is a deterrent to the most serious forms of crime I think the fact that as punishment has become 'softer' the perceptions of crime in this country is that it has got worse (despite the fudging of figures from the Government), is evidence enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I know a lad who was in Durham nick and he described it as hell. But then he was a nice lad who had a bit of bad luck (don't want to get into the whys and wherefores). Others, more of your career criminal types if you will, in there with him didn't seem to think it was so bad. Maybe such types who might view it as an occupational hazard, adjust better and become accustomed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 how is 'perceptions' evidence ? how come we had child and police killers when we had hanging - Derek Bentley anyone ? deterrent or not ? Jack the ripper ? remember for example the number of children being killed as a % of population has stayed static for decades only the outrage of the media gets worse prompting peopel into their perception that there is a child molester on every street corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I know a lad who was in Durham nick and he described it as hell. But then he was a nice lad who had a bit of bad luck (don't want to get into the whys and wherefores). Others, more of your career criminal types if you will, in there with him didn't seem to think it was so bad. Maybe such types who might view it as an occupational hazard, adjust better and become accustomed to it. yep thats is how I understand it, for some 5 years prison in conditions few of us would like is a price worth paying and the amount of drugs in there is way beyond our comprehension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myb Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 how is 'perceptions' evidence ? In the same way that people "think" the current penal system is the best way of dealing with crime. How is that evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 As I said a few pages back, it's barbaric, it wont lower murder rates and it certainly won't make a difference to mine and your everyday lives because the streets will be no safer. So why do it? An eye for an eye? No thanks not for me this one. The kind of crime which we are talking about (premeditated murder and so forth) is a tiny fraction of overall crime, (the people advocating that lesser crimes like rape come under the death penalty are frankly living on another planet). We'd be better off thinking up ways of combating the 99% of crimes that actually go on, if we want to make a difference on the streets. The drunken brawls on a Saturday night, the addict who robs for money, the organised car thieves, joy riders and the anti social kids. Prison needs to serve 3 purposes, to deter and punish, but most importantly to rehabilitate and I think that's where the system is currently failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 can you prove it would be TT ? Of course he can't, can you prove it wouldn't be in the UK? By which I mean without quoting wiki references to a society packed full of firearms across the ocean that isn't the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 also, if prisons meant no frills that would go some way to convincing me. I take ir from your comments that you are a criminal then? Prison being so nice and all? Because I'm shit scared of doing anything that might get me locked up. yes, i'm a criminal currently in leicester prison. thats why i can spend so much time on here, with my 4mb broadband connection in my cell. The mean screws only let me use it 8 hours a day maximum though, and they filter out the child p0rn sites. b&st&rds. seriously though, it might be horrible to a lot of law-abiding people, but to a lot of these criminals who don't have much in life, and don't have anything to lose, then its actually pretty ok. there was that tramp in manchester in the newspapers a couple of years ago. everytime he got released from prison, he'd commit a crime straight away so he could go back in. he said it was so nice in there compared to living on the street, that he didn't want to leave!!!! anyway, i think the thread has digressed from talk of Death Penalty to prison conditions. so i say... hang them all!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarry Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 also, if prisons meant no frills that would go some way to convincing me. I take ir from your comments that you are a criminal then? Prison being so nice and all? Because I'm shit scared of doing anything that might get me locked up. yes, i'm a criminal currently in leicester prison. thats why i can spend so much time on here, with my 4mb broadband connection in my cell. The mean screws only let me use it 8 hours a day maximum though, and they filter out the child p0rn sites. b&st&rds. I'm sold! Where's my swag-bag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Prison needs to serve 3 purposes, to deter and punish, but most importantly to rehabilitate and I think that's where the system is currently failing. and currently it does none out of the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 can you prove it would be TT ? Of course he can't, can you prove it wouldn't be in the UK? By which I mean without quoting wiki references to a society packed full of firearms across the ocean that isn't the UK? so if you can't quote the only western country with it then simply there is no evidence surely you can compare murder rates between states or even in one state alone that does not have the death penalty no wiki refence but this from the guardian about New york people are so glib to claimn it is a deterrent with no evidence at all suggesting it is and in fact evidence suggest it makes no difference whatsover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World_Domination Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Is a life time (50years) in prison more humain than a quick death as a punishment ? Is it back to the question of could you kill for the greater good ? The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you I'm the righteous man. And Mr. .45 here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. we need sheperds or we are doomed I tell ye.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 can you prove it would be TT ? Of course he can't, can you prove it wouldn't be in the UK? By which I mean without quoting wiki references to a society packed full of firearms across the ocean that isn't the UK? so if you can't quote the only western country with it then simply there is no evidence surely you can compare murder rates between states or even in one state alone that does not have the death penalty no wiki refence but this from the guardian about New york people are so glib to claimn it is a deterrent with no evidence at all suggesting it is and in fact evidence suggest it makes no difference whatsover Ian I have just done a quick google and figures from 1994 showed over 200 million privately held firearms in the USA. Assuming that equates to 50% of the general population being tooled up if you extrapolate that to the UK we'd be looking at 30 million privately held firearms of various sizes from pistols to heavy machine guns. That might make quite a difference to the UK murder rate imho, capital punishment or not. Now do you understand why your constant references to America when we are debating something's relevance to the UK are about as useful as tits on a fish? You are utterly incapable of proving your own position but continue to shout that people should prove there's when no comparable situation exists. This is just opinion and neither side of the debate can 'prove' anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 are you being awkward ? I am comparing New York to other US states, you would imagine in New York being a city actually some problems there are actually worse yet their levels of murders are way lower than New Orleans _ Lousiana which I think has the death penalty surely you must accept comparsions between US states are valid therefore if there is no deterrent effect shown then simply it does not work ? you have no evidence at ALL none, to prove captial punishment works as a deterrent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 are you being awkward ? I have been thinking the same mate. you have no evidence at ALL none, to prove captial punishment works as a deterrent Ahem. The post above your's Ian: This is just opinion and neither side of the debate can 'prove' anything. Klar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 There have been numerous studies conducted in the us on the subject and the overwhelming evidence points to that fact that it has little effect on murder rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCLaura Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 *Snigger* I love seeing two men go at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCLaura Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Wait.... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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