Villa Park redevelopment

[sidcow]

45 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Looking at it they can easily add more rows to the front of the upper tier to create a bigger overhang and perhaps rejig the vormitories stairs. 

Sorry, did you write something? I've just been admiring the pictures. 

As an aside, my favourite Holte End moment (apart from a fit bird who used to walk up and down the gap between the left an right of the old Holte Terrace) was when we first played Wimbledon and we sang "The Holte End's bigger than your ground." 

Edited April 13, 2023 by sidcow

[sidcow]

Expanding The Holte would please my son because he's having an existential crises at the prospect of The North Stand being bigger than The Holte. 

[sidcow]

I'm 4 rows from the back of the lower Holte, so below the overhang. 

I'm not sure how much those rows back change the perspective but I don't think you could fit many more rows onto the overhang before my view was impeded. Maybe a couple more. 

Upper Holte seems to have about 200 seats across. 

Maybe 3 rows would get 600 more. 

Then again I can easily see the top of the Police control station. 

Maybe an extra 10 or so rows could be possible. 

I mean I was on the very back row at Crystal Palace a few years ago and all you could see was the feet of the players on the far touchline. I'm certain 5 or 6 extra rows wouldn't make it near that bad. 

6 rows would probably give you £750k extra income for entrance only per season so worth a couple of million of investment long term. 

I'll look around on Saturday and think about it a bit more.   Be interested how many rows account for the overhang, would give an idea how much more rows would project forwards. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by sidcow

[sidcow]

OK apologies for the excess of posts. 

I've just looked at photos taken from my seat. I can see acres of sky above the North Stand. I'm talking over twice it's height and no sign of the overhang. 

I'll see if I can post a picture. 

I'm certain you could extend that overhang A LOT and not affect my view. 

This seems like a logical way they could fit in a lot more seats. Probably need additional exits, maybe to the side but I would say definitely possible. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by sidcow

[sidcow]

That overhang could go a hell of a long way forward before my view is a problem. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by sidcow

[Rich192]

 

Here's a good photo showing that, too. 

[sidcow]

Just now, Rich192 said:

 

Here's a good photo showing that, too. 

I mean looking at that there must be 5 or 6 rows on the existing overhang. 

I'm now pretty certain they could add 10 rows to get that 2,000 though exists will start attracting a lot of attention. 

2,000 seats could produce circa £1.2m per season in pure entrance money so the economics of a big spend really do stack up, especially if there is some Euro 2028 cash floating about. 

The more I think about it the more this makes seems like the most likely solution. 

For me the main issue is the support for the structure. Could you could but a massive beam across the whole length of the stand supported either side?   Is there a way of putting in steel uprights at the back of the lower Holte for some cantilever support? 

Questions Questions. 

 

[brommy]

22 minutes ago, sidcow said:

OK apologies for the excess of posts. 

I've just looked at photos taken from my seat. I can see acres of sky above the North Stand. I'm talking over twice it's height and no sign of the overhang. 

I'll see if I can post a picture. 

I'm certain you could extend that overhang A LOT and not affect my view. 

This seems like a logical way they could fit in a lot more seats. Probably need addition exits, maybe to the side but I would say definitely possible. 

Crazy that my group of Upper Holte row 12 seats that I've had since the stand was completed in 1994, could end up being row 20!

I do wonder if we're close on where the majority of the extra seats taking Villa Park from just over 50,000 to just over 52,000 will be located. Could an extra few rows be added at the back of the Upper Holte?

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

Could an extra few rows be added at the back of the Upper Holte?

I was just wondering about that. 

Maybe with the safe standing you could increase the rake towards the back and fit in an extra row or 2?

The statement mentioned The Holte and The Trinity didn't it? 

Maybe an extra row or 2 on the Trinity Overhang as well? That's going to add 400 or so per row. 

I know that in Civil Engineering they've taken old existing bridge structures and "clipped" extra lanes onto the edge using modern methods of construction.  A lot of structures are over engineered. A bit of reinforcement and lighter modern materials can ease the load. 

[brommy]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I mean looking at that there must be 5 or 6 rows on the existing overhang. 

I'm now pretty certain they could add 10 rows to get that 2,000 though exists will start attracting a lot of attention. 

2,000 seats could produce circa £1.2m per season in pure entrance money so the economics of a big spend really do stack up, especially if there is some Euro 2028 cash floating about. 

The more I think about it the more this makes seems like the most likely solution. 

For me the main issue is the support for the structure. Could you could but a massive beam across the whole length of the stand supported either side?   Is there a way of putting in steel uprights at the back of the lower Holte for some cantilever support? 

Questions Questions. 

 

From my seat in row 12 Upper I can't see the rear half of the lower Holte due to the angle of the Upper Holte rows in front of me which overhang by only a few rows. Adding too many rows at the front of the Upper could risk restricting the view of the Holte End goal line below.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

From my seat in row 12 Upper I can't see the rear half of the lower Holte due to the angle of the Upper Holte rows in front of me which overhang by only a few rows. Adding too many rows at the front of the Upper could risk restricting the view of the Holte End goal line below.

Aahh. Yes. Stand down troops. 

[Rich192]

Looking back at the promo video that we released. Looks below as if the Trinity and the Holte is connected far more than it is now:

 

 

So maybe a few seats there? There's also a different roof on the Holte End in this video, so there might be bigger changes in the Holte in phase 2 than we originally thought, which would bring about those additional 2k or so extra?

Or am I reading too much in to a promo video...?

[sidcow]

OK. So going back to my theory of "clipping" to existing structure, just 2 rows onto Trinity Upper I think gives 1,200 and 2 Rows to Upper Holte gives 800 which gets our 2,000.

Shouldn't need substantial structural alterations and shouldn't massively amend evacuation requirements and shouldn't affect views substantially. 

Shouldn't cost a fortune as long as the existing structure can cope with the loading. 

[sidcow]

3 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Looking back at the promo video that we released. Looks below as if the Trinity and the Holte is connected far more than it is now:

 

 

So maybe a few seats there? There's also a different roof on the Holte End in this video, so there might be bigger changes in the Holte in phase 2 than we originally thought, which would bring about those additional 2k or so extra?

Or am I reading too much in to a promo video...?

Whoa. That picture DOES suggest a new Holte Roof with possible extra rows to the rear. You might well be onto something there. 

[brommy]

2 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Looking back at the promo video that we released. Looks below as if the Trinity and the Holte is connected far more than it is now:

 

 

So maybe a few seats there? There's also a different roof on the Holte End in this video, so there might be bigger changes in the Holte in phase 2 than we originally thought, which would bring about those additional 2k or so extra?

Or am I reading too much in to a promo video...?

I'm not convinced the promo video is that accurate in its visual portrayal of a future Villa Park but hey, if the capacity is increasing to 52,190, the 2,100 or so extra seats are going somewhere and I enjoy chatting about what I see as my second home.

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, brommy said:

I'm not convinced the promo video is that accurate in its visual portrayal of a future Villa Park but hey, if the capacity is increasing to 52,190, the 2,100 or so extra seats are going somewhere and I enjoy chatting about what I see as my second home.

Just realised I was looking at that the wrong way round and it was the new North Stand roof I was looking at

[brommy]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Whoa. That picture DOES suggest a new Holte Roof with possible extra rows to the rear. You might well be onto something there. 

Whilst the promo video appears to show a different style roof than current it doesn't appear to extend any further back. I think plain white roof shown in the video was used to simplify the CGI process in lieu of the actual roof which has black lines on it.

[Captain_Townsend]

With the new North Stand we get to 50,000. For me, the obvious next move is Witton Lane. As things stand the current Witton Lane Stand is about 3,500 seats smaller than the Trinity (and a lot more cramped). 

I would not be surprised to learn that they have figured out a way to build a new Stand on Witton Lane - maybe diverting the road under the Stand- and this new Stand will, aesthetically, look like the Trinity but won't quite be on the same scale. So, that's our extra 2,000 or so seats (and better facilities).

Overhangs, digging down etc? I just don't see it. 

 

[VillaJ100]

Problem with Witton Lane is the houses there. Building further out would cause them issues. Course Doug could have bought all the land for a pittance and decided not to. I don't think having it look like the Trinity will be popular either

Edited April 14, 2023 by VillaJ100

[Captain_Townsend]

4 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

Problem with Witton Lane is the houses there. Building further house would cause them issues. Course Doug could have bought all the land for a pittance and decided not to. I don't think having it look like the Trinity will be popular either

Well, not a direct replica, but the same general style. Construction has evolved a lot since 1993-94 there might be ways of doing it jow that there weren't in 1993. For example,  a much more transparent roof etc.