avfc1982am

BROKEN ARROW!! Funny

Not sure Lerner realises you can get relegated in soccer! Not sure Lerner realises you can get relegated in soccer!

People are going say you need to support the players blah blah blah. The bottom line is I don't give 2 sh*ts about Leicester in the cup, and in my opinion if he isn't gone by start of kick off the weekend the supporters of our great club need to vocally protest his management. It's not nice, but a necessity now and a cup game is the right time to vent. It's now or never for me, I just don't see what the point is waiting to protest until the end of the season when Lambert, the players and the owner can run and hide not giving a sh*t at the destruction they have caused. The Crapship Lambert IS going down people and taking us with it!

Nobody has said such a thing, things are really bad for all of us right now, the last thing we need is fans turning on other fans for no reason. Your right. What we need is fans turning on the manager to force him to resign or the club to sack him. It's getting totally ridiculous.

There is every point in sacking Lambert even if he just takes the negativity with him. Something needs to change quick before it is too late! All this give him til the end of the season is just nonsense, nothing will change as the players have a defeatest mindset under him now.

Can't go with all of that. You get your tactics correct, formation, movement etc, and it will allow greater opportunities to be creative increasing the confidence within the squad. Confidence will also come from the belief that what you are doing is correct. Tactics are imperative in top flight football and to suggest the players at a premiership club cannot transition from defence to attack or visa versa is very naive. Lambert has himself said the squad is his strongest, if this is the case and I think we all agree it is, why are we in reverse?

Not by me he wasn't. As great as the piss up was in Norwich that day I was embarrassed by the Lambert chants. But this is what happens when the manager is incompetent. People just want better.

Sorry but we don't all agree. This is unrealistic in my view and here's why. Going back to the Poundworld analogy from earlier. After Lambert's 1st season in charge of Villa he was shopping in Poundworld for precisely 1 season. Now after 3 years in charge he has now been shopping there for 3 years. So why should we expect an improvement after a further 2 years of being forced to water down a Premier League squad? It is not a given when you are replacing bigger wages with smaller wages that you will improve. In fact it will invariably and inevitably have the opposite effect. This is what brings me back to Lerner. It's also why, regardless of who is in charge, if we continue down this route then it is an inevitability that we will go down. It will not be the manager's fault no matter who that is, although no doubt whoever happens to be in charge at the time will get more than their fair share of flack. For me the buck will stop categorically at the chairman's door. What your saying then is the manager has no bearing on the performances of the team only money does? Line up, formation, tactics, nothing matters because it's all about the money invested? Absolute nonsense! We've been played off the park many times in the last 3 years against teams that cost a fraction of our own so called "Poundland" squad. The thing is it's probably a good 18 months since we had to water anything down. Only players to improve have been brought in - no ones really been sold. So what if were not spending 10,15 or 20mil on players. Is that reason to say the manager is never culpable? If that is the case why not just get rid anyway, after all it can't get any worse can it?

Tantamount to bully boy tactics right there Yet I don't seem to recall the same level of condemnation when it was directed at the likes of O'Leary, Houllier and McLeish. Yet I dont seem to recall anyone ever saying to those managers 'go now or we'll hound you until you do and you'll deserve it' which is the sentiment at least of the post quoted. Can you show me those posts directed at the three managers you have mentioned? Where you been? Sorry but OLeary and Mcleish had far more hatred thrown their way when they were in charge. If Lambert had half the stick Mcleish had he would've been gone ages ago. Making out people are bullying Lambert is as ridiculous as it gets.

Think the percentage would be up nearer to 85-90% personally.

Get rid of Lambert by any means necessary! Well said. No, not well said at all. That's not a plan, that's an aim. How are you achieving that without it having a detrimental effect on the players? Remembering that we can't go "throwing" games. Every single one is a cup final, to use said cliché. What's the plan? What is the current plan then? You see aiming or attempting to get rid of something that is more detrimental to the team if continued is actually part of the short term plan you mention- First you stop the bleeding, then you treat the wound. Can you understand that? Does anyone think anything on the pitch at the moment looks like a progressive plan that Lambert is masterminding? It's more like groundhog day and an experiment that continually fails and only the person carrying it out believes it will eventually come good. Nearly everyone else has just lost faith in the man or are just pissed off at the incompetence of him. It's easy to drop the whole "every game is a cup final" phrase, we've had that shit for 4 years now. The bottom line is Lambert and the players aren't playing like they are in cup finals weekly, in fact they've been as you put it, "throwing" games away on a weekly basis. Also any notion that the fan's are now responsible for players and managers performances in the last 15 games is total nonsense. Getting behind them for the last 3 years which most of us have done under Lambert's tenure has had absolutely zero impact in terms of progression or pulling out results. And as I said previously the players can differenciate between criticisms of themselves and the management. The problem is with Lambert not the players and believe me as much as they may like him do you honestly think they believe in what his is doing or able to implement it? Any action to rid the club of Lambert asap is a good start to any plan, in my opinion.

Get rid of Lambert by any means necessary!

He should be given hell even if we just manage to survive. The fact that he has dangled us over the edge of the cliff yet again is, in my belief, an absolute disgrace. After the final whistle on the final day, all bets are off. Or when we are mathematically safe even, if that happens. Totally fine with that. What...? When it's too late to do anything! Funny how people were saying "give him til xmas", then January and now the end of the season. Lambert is shot as a manager currently, whether the owner, fans, or just the size of the job being too much for him, it's obvious his day's are numbered. Even if we by some miracle start scoring the goals to keep us up most have had enough of the crap served up. Waiting til we are down before acting is pretty embarrassing in itself though in my opinion. Maybe it's just me but I'm not into the whole waiting until the horses bolted scenario! I don't think he's saying that Lambert should be given until the end of the season to save his job, I think he's saying that the abuse should wait until the end of the season and that in the mean time we should focus on getting behind the team. Mantis I hear that. But say things continue like this past the 4-5 games do you honestly keep standing by watching OUR club get shafted up the arse until the end of the season and then start crying when it's too late? My point being that maybe if we are getting battered by Chelsea with 10 min left and no hope of getting back in the game, showing your displeasure to Lambert isn't going to impact a great deal on the rest of the season yet may shake things up. Come on then, let's hear your master plan. Maybe you'll surprise me into crying early. I don't want you to cry at all! You might just start me off!! Is there a master plan? I doubt it very much at the moment, especially with the current instability regarding our long term future. However I am struggling to believe that under Lambert we will improve very much in the coming games- Hope I'm wrong. Therefore I really think there needs to be an awakening of some sort. Whether getting on Lamberts back will inspire the players to up their game, who knows? Whether lambert may then take notice of other voices asking for changes, who knows? Or even letting Lerner and Fox know this cannot continue. Coming up with a long term strategy(master plan) - I need more time!! I just think in the short term action is needed to shake things up, bit like a rocket up the arse, If not the long term will look even bleaker.

I know your not a fan of the manager but I'm questioning why you think the fan's shouldn't protest? I'm with you in supporting the players but no one is saying don't support them, but at what stage do you stay 'get the **** outta dodge Lambert'. Waiting until the end of the season before is pointless I think personally.

He should be given hell even if we just manage to survive. The fact that he has dangled us over the edge of the cliff yet again is, in my belief, an absolute disgrace. After the final whistle on the final day, all bets are off. Or when we are mathematically safe even, if that happens. Totally fine with that. What...? When it's too late to do anything! Funny how people were saying "give him til xmas", then January and now the end of the season. Lambert is shot as a manager currently, whether the owner, fans, or just the size of the job being too much for him, it's obvious his day's are numbered. Even if we by some miracle start scoring the goals to keep us up most have had enough of the crap served up. Waiting til we are down before acting is pretty embarrassing in itself though in my opinion. Maybe it's just me but I'm not into the whole waiting until the horses bolted scenario! I don't think he's saying that Lambert should be given until the end of the season to save his job, I think he's saying that the abuse should wait until the end of the season and that in the mean time we should focus on getting behind the team. Mantis I hear that. But say things continue like this past the 4-5 games do you honestly keep standing by watching OUR club get shafted up the arse until the end of the season and then start crying when it's too late? My point being that maybe if we are getting battered by Chelsea with 10 min left and no hope of getting back in the game, showing your displeasure to Lambert isn't going to impact a great deal on the rest of the season yet may shake things up.

He won't sack him. A protest can ONLY be detrimental. Every. Single. Game. Counts. Every moment, every kick. We cannot take that kind of risk. Full support is the only option, which is why after almost two years of staying away (lots of reasons by the way) I don't intend to miss a game if I can help it from now until the end. This is MY club and I don't want to see her put in any more jeopardy than she already is. You still didn't answer the detrimental bit however I love the bold. This is how I feel about the Villa but unlike you I would rather get rid of that which puts MY club in jeopardy. Do you think we will stay up?

He should be given hell even if we just manage to survive. The fact that he has dangled us over the edge of the cliff yet again is, in my belief, an absolute disgrace. After the final whistle on the final day, all bets are off. Or when we are mathematically safe even, if that happens. Totally fine with that. What...? When it's too late to do anything! Funny how people were saying "give him til xmas", then January and now the end of the season. Lambert is shot as a manager currently, whether the owner, fans, or just the size of the job being too much for him, it's obvious his day's are numbered. Even if we by some miracle start scoring the goals to keep us up most have had enough of the crap served up. Waiting til we are down before acting is pretty embarrassing in itself though in my opinion. Maybe it's just me but I'm not into the whole waiting until the horses bolted scenario!

How do you truly know a protest will be detrimental? How do you know that the pressure of the crowd won't eventually force the owner into making changes to the management and maybe giving us a chance to stay up should things get worse than what they are? Maybe Lerner will change his stance and expectancy level of the manager. And I think everyone understands the situation perfectly. If something doesn't change we will go down for the first time in nearly 30 years. In my own opinion I don't see that after 3 years of absolute garbage football anyone will think toy's are being thrown from the pram. Most will think about time! I don't give a crap about the media either and like you care about what the players think however this isn't about the players it's about the manager/owner. I think that the players can differentiate between themselves and the manager.

You do that then. I won't be, nor will I be protesting. I also reserve the right to feel embarrassed by you. Cheers. Why would you be embarrassed at those protesting? You see what I don't get is the fact that so many fans are totally against protesting because of the idea it will have a detrimental affect on the team. Yet let's be honest here, most fans that go aren't neccessarily supporting the team either because most of the time the atmosphere is flat anyway, only a small minority sing or try to get the rest going. I think fans have a right to protest if needed without it being frowned upon or looked on as embarrassing. The bottom line is, those that do indeed eventually snap, will have after being unbelievably patient for a long time. After realising something drastically needs to change. And what about those that go and suggest they are supporting mearly because they turn up, yet sit there thoughout the game hardly saying a word or singing a song, raising the noise level, are they embarrassing? At the end of the day we live in a democracy whether arguements or protests are warranted is to be decided eventually by the majority and as been happenening for centuries for what ever reason. I guess eventually the majority in our case will snap and protest. Also most fans I would guess don't neccessarily look at themselves as a fan but more part of the club as the club is part of them. Some people care enough to voice their concerns for something they genuinely love. Personally I call it passion and find it amazing how others can look on it as embarrassing or anything other than a genuine care for the club. This isn't a personal dig doug but I am genuinely curious as to why you and others would find a protest uncalled for, embarrassing, or whatever detrimental? Maybe actually a small but affective protest by all or the majority may pull the players together and not neccessarily make them fold - just a thought.

I'm not in favour of mass boycotting. Staying away this season hasn't made me feel any better about the current situation in reality. I still catch the games via internet, still get pissed off, spend my weekend and most of the week cursing. The bottom line is if people(including myself) want a change then rather than bitching and doing nothing everybody needs to get their ass down the ground and be vocal. Let Lambert, Lerner,the players, the media and everyone else listening that fans have had enough. It happened all the time under Ellis and in fairness we had some good times as well as bad, one thing though during ellis's time, fans were nowhere near as passive then as the currently. I'm not down with the whole don't upset the players nonsense, their not babies and many of them don't give a shit anyway as they know if we go down it won't hinder their careers - they'll just move on. The situation is, it's no good crying at the end of the season when it's too late to rectify the wrongs that have been made. I'm not saying spend all game chanting for Lambert out but if we are well out of the Chelsea game with 10 mins left Lambert and the players should get a full broadside from the whole of the ground. As supporters and people that truly love the club(not just because we get a wage) it is your duty to show that this shit won't be accepted. It is time for those that want Lambert out to stand up instead of the continual passiveness which is also crippling our club.

I think that is a fair enough stance and most certainly during a game. I have wanted Lambert gone for some time now but that hasn't stopped me supporting and being 100% behind the team at the games and I therefore guess for the 90 minutes Lambert is a part of that team and I am right behind him. That will again be the case on Saturday. I guess even those that say they don't support him would acknowledge that come match day that by supporting the team and wanting those that can influence a game in a positive way for us to do well then they are for those 90 minutes supporting the manager. I have always said that I will always back a player during a game as long as I know he is putting a shift in and doing his best. A lack of ability I can forgive but a lack of effort is inexcusable. I have a similar philosophy with Lambert as I have no doubt he is doing his very best but the sad fact is that his best has been shown to be in no way good enough and at this level he is out of his depth. I don't think there is any ill feeling towards Lambert. I have never seen the vicious and nasty reactions I witnessed under McLeish and Houllier towards him and I genuinely hope it doesn't have to get to that stage and that he is relieved of his duties, walks or a miracle happens and he suddenly develops a bit of tactical nous. I 100% believe he should go but for as long as he remains here I do hope for all our sakes he can turn things around. I would love to still be in your position but for me things have just gone too far now. Every day he stays as manager is just further nails into the already closed coffin. The erratic way we played yesterday was conclusive proof that no matter what he does it just wont work. We had a decent last week in fairness with the win over Bournemouth and the signing of Gil, Sinclair and Delph signing a new deal- All that means though is we get some money now. But to go from that to what was witnessed yesterday was nothing short of disgraceful for a team in dire need of confidence. Playing Richardson at leftback was one of the most ridiculous decisions I have seen any Villa manager make. It's too much now and if I am totally honest it's starting to become tiresome. On the outside I am passive but on the inside I am fuming at the lack of action to sort the mess out. More players aren't needed, a new manager is. Personally I think if the fans don't rise up soon it will be too late, although part of me feels it is already.

Spot on. A few pundits have been saying the same this weekend. What else can Lambert say? How do you react to defeats? By maybe change his generic post match punchline?! Maybe every now and again he could say, " I got it wrong today. My line up didn't work, the formation failed and I made my substitutions to late and in the wrong areas". How about that instead of the whole " mumble, mumble... we go again"! Sorry but playing Richardson at left back today was idiotic. Both him and Hutton being expected to provide the width with no real cover is just plain stupid against a team that can move the ball quicker and who have pace. I don't blame Clark or Okore for the defensive shambles today, both had to drift too far to close spaces down today leaving them to far apart and exposed. Ridiculous tactics and line up given the expectations of a manager on his players so yes he could put it differently, just for a change.

He was shit today and shouldve been taken off much earlier than he was. Nobody is trying to hound him out the club just commenting on how crap he was today.

Will be the first player sold in the summer if we go down. Plenty of clubs will want this lad. Only player to come out of todays game with any real credit.

I think anyone who still supports him after this erratic shambolic performance needs to seriously question their loyalty to the club! Too many poor decisions in selection, formation and subs week after week. Lambert needs to go!