KentVillan

If a manager of Bielsa's quality and track record suddenly became available to Villa, then fair enough, it's worth considering an early switch. Benitez or Rodgers might fit that bill. But the impression I get is that the Smith Out crew on here would be happy with a Fat Sam or a Pulis or some equivalent manager from a foreign league - i.e. managers who have never come close to winning a top-level competition in their careers.

Okay a few points here: Most clubs in English football are unsuccessful and badly run, so let's not pay too much attention to what they're doing. Some clubs change manager frequently but have a longer term approach in areas like youth, transfer policy, finances, etc. (Southampton is a good example). Purslow is trying to change a lot of things here at the same time, and it would be good to have some stability. Of the most successful clubs in English football (the ones we used to measure ourselves against!) only one has succeeded by chopping and changing (Chelsea). The rest have all given most of their managers 150+ games. Even a struggling Man Utd have given Mourinho and Van Gaal 100+ games each. So questioning DS's position after 20 games of mixed results (not relegation form) isn't consistent with what successful clubs are doing. From what I can see, well-run clubs give even a struggling manager a bare minimum of 50 matches, and ideally they let him have around 100 games. If Smith still hasn't got anywhere after 50-100 games, then maybe he's had his chance, and we can reasonably ask him to leave.

Let's not turn against JT. We have no idea how much influence he has, what he's contracted to do, what mistakes he's made, etc. A lot of this thread is just people jumping to conclusions, and people turning against a top player who gave us a good season and has always spoken highly of the club.

Been trying to work out what's going on with Hourihane. This whole podcast is interesting, but listen to 4:48 here on Dean Smith's attention to detail and Villa's attacking football. Makes me wonder if Hourihane's problem is nothing to do with DS, but more to do with him being a bit soft when things turn against him. With Grealish out and no decent water carriers in the side, Hourihane is exposed, and he can't handle the pressure. I still think he's a decent footballer in the right setup, but despite having the same accent as Roy Keane, he clearly lacks any of his fight.

Your salary doesn't make you fitter. As you get older, you accumulate more injuries and weaknesses, and your body takes longer to repair the normal damage from 90 mins of football. This isn't like you playing three games of 5-a-side a week... these guys are going flat out, and unless your name is Ronaldo or Messi, it catches up with everyone at some point in the season. Tammy is looking tired, for example, and you can hardly criticise his attitude or professionalism.

I think actually for some of these players, "pass and move, pressing and what not" is very far removed from what they've done for their whole careers. Sure, they can pass a football accurately, but it's the positioning, movement off the ball, how long they keep the ball before releasing, the decision making, etc. which might be unnatural. Also, players are individuals with personalities and opinions, and varying levels of intelligence. Pressing systems are particularly prone to one or two players not doing their job. Some players are very adaptable to different systems (I reckon Whelan fits into this category) and some struggle unless the team suits their style (Hourihane, Kodjia). I've only watched the highlights of the West Brom game, but Hourihane is again at fault for one of their goals with a pathetically soft tackle. When you're turning relatively easy tackles into 50-50s, something is wrong with your attitude. Hourihane in my view is a selfish player who plays for goal / assist stats and highlight reels. Smith should drop him, but it's hard to see who replaces him!? I'm frustrated by recent results and agree with some of hippo's points about Smith's record being overegged, but I still think he's dealing with a really shit hand, and has also been quite unlucky with injuries and freak goals. I would only support sacking him if a very good replacement were available, and if it was a sensible time to change the management (i.e. not mid-season). I think realistically that means giving Smith the whole of next season. We've had decades of underachievement, what's another mediocre season in the grand scheme of things? If you back your managers and give them time, you become a more attractive club to play at or manage.

My worry is that is actually the problem at the moment. He's getting good performances out of "his" players, but he seems to have lost all of Bruce's players, who still make up most of the team. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

I don't think anyone is arguing that if we stick with Smith through thick and thin (e.g. 2 more seasons of mid-table mediocrity) that he will come good. We're just saying that he's done nothing so far to justify most of the criticism. A lot of people are jumping to huge conclusions based on a few games. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, what system he's trying to instil, who's listening to or ignoring his instructions, who's pissing him off but has to play anyway because of lack of options, etc. We can guess at a lot of these things and read between the lines from matchday performances, player history, news reports, and interviews, but from the limited number of games we've seen, it's mostly just guesswork. It's very hard to tell the difference between a badly coached player and a selfish idiot. It's also hard to tell the difference between a badly coached player and a well coached player who is still adapting to a system. Remember a lot of these lads are either a bit dim or very set in their ways (or both), and it can take months to retrain their instinctive movements and decision making. Imagine if you've spent your whole career pumping the ball down the line from full back, and you're now being asked to look first for the inside ball every time... and the player you're meant to be passing it to doesn't want it, because he only cares about his YouTube reels, and the only player who does want possession in the middle of the park is long-term injured? This isn't stuff that just suddenly clicks a few games into a manager's tenure. The way for a manager to get quick results is to keep things simple, familiar tactics, round pegs in round holes, work on a few setpiece routines. Let the players play their natural game. I thought we brought DS in for something more ambitious? Purslow has a plan to build a team around young players, affordable wages, and an attractive, possession football style. He identified DS as a good candidate for making that happen. None of that stuff is going to happen overnight. My sense is that DS's big dilemma at the moment is Hourihane: he offers real quality on set pieces and goals from midfield, but he also lacks quality defensively and in possession. These weaknesses are less of a problem when DS can pull McGinn and Grealish back into a central three, which is why our possession stats looked a lot better before Grealish got injured. Now McGinn is playing higher, and Hourihane is either holding by himself, or alongside Whelan / Jedinak. That's clearly going to affect the possession game that DS was trying to play, given the intrinsic qualities of those players. I don't see an easy solution to this problem. Same for the full back problem - you're not going to change Hutton and Taylor at this stage in their careers. As far as I can see, they've both always played the exact same way under every manager they've ever had. There's stuff like this happening right through the squad. None of it will be fixed until DS has had more time.

Disagree completely: There were loads of signs of a distinctive style, until injuries to our most technically gifted midfielder and most technically gifted defender. On what planet is "young and willing to learn and work hard" a difficult brief for a new manager? Loads of managers want these kinds of players. What makes you think he isn't trying to get the most out of this bunch? What makes you think playing Bruceball for half a season will stand us in better stead than starting to develop a more possession-based style in anticipation of next season? The "established players who have done it before at other clubs" did it several years ago, and are now in their thirties. They are not the same players who did it at other clubs. The natural process of ageing can hardly be blamed on Dean Smith. Who do you have in mind here anyway?

We have better resources than Brentford, don't we? I didn't think that needed to be stated. I despair.

You have a point about Smith's previous record. Brentford had already finished 5th the season before he arrived. But before that they had been a third-tier team for decades. He helped make them a perennial Championship side. They were also going through a transition from a Manager model to a Sporting Director + Head Coach model when he arrived. Clearly Brentford's club leadership and fans thought DS did a good job of handling that, and I value their opinion more than yours. I still say it's a win-win for us with Dean Smith. If it doesn't work out, he'll leave behind a young squad that another head coach with a similar philosophy can inherit, and hit the ground running. Purslow is finally abandoning the panic transfer policy and high wages for bench warmers strategy that has been f***ing this club for years. DS buys into this, and for that alone, he deserves a chance.

I agree this is a huge problem. Pressing is a whole team effort, and you only need one or two players to shirk their responsibilities for the whole thing to fail. It also requires a lot of stamina to do it for 90 mins, so you normally either need to dominate possession, or do it in bursts. My sense is that with Grealish in the team, our players get a lot more time to catch their breath and find their shape. He helps us manage the pace of the game and retain possession. Compare that with Hourihane or Jedinak who receive the ball in space and immediately ping a speculative pass into touch. I'd judge the pressing tactics on the players who have a future under DS (i.e. the younger lads). They all seem to be pressing and tracking back (McGinn, Tammy, El Ghazi). It's the lads who are playing for their summer transfer who are more concerned with scoring a good goal or playing a Hollywood ball for the highlights reel (Kodjia, Hourihane), and aren't helping out (was the same with Bolasie).

Majority of Villa fans are still on board. Unfortunately, it's always the vocal minority who make the most noise. The signings we've made so far all point towards a sensible long-term strategy (something hippo says doesn't exist in football).

Jurgen Klopp arrived at Liverpool on 8th October 2015. Dean Smith arrived at Villa on 10th October 2018. Let's compare their performance after 19 league games (the total number Smith has managed us in so far): Dean Smith after 19 league games: W7 D8 L4 Pts 29 Jurgen Klopp after 19 league games: W8 D5 L6 Pts 29 Klopp's Liverpool finished in 8th, behind West Ham and Southampton. That's what happens when a manager is trying to change a team's system and rebuild a squad. And his predecessor was a much more successful manager than Steve Bruce! You can't start judging any manager until he has had at least one pre-season to communicate his philosophy to the players, and a summer transfer window to tailor the squad to his system. I see a lot of similar accusations levelled at Smith that were aimed at Klopp: "Klopp can't coach a defence" - now has the best defence in the Premier League "Why is Klopp playing a striker on the wing?" - because he wanted to embed the system, and a front 3 is his main system... nobody complaining now Lack of quality and tenacity in the middle of the park - sorted over several transfer windows at great expense Poor goalkeeper - took Klopp two attempts to get this right. Wasn't fixed overnight. I'm not saying for a moment that Dean Smith is at Klopp's level, but in Championship terms, possibly he is, i.e. he could well be a Championship-winning manager. He talks a lot of sense in interviews, comes across as intelligent and popular with the players, and most of his decisions make sense. We don't know what's happening on the training ground, but the players seem to like him, even if we're a bit slow out of the blocks. The poor starts are surely down to instability in the lineup - but most of the instability in the lineup has been forced on him by injuries, transfers, and the need to fix glaring weaknesses. Just give him a chance, please.

Nyland was making howler after howler on an almost weekly basis. He was standing up and in a position to come to the ball, hold it firmly, and deal with the challenge. It was such a soft goal to concede, regardless of the handball. Kalinic was lying on his back and had to reach for the ball. It's not the same mistake. Agree, though, that Kalinic needs to put together a run of good games, or he'll soon become a target for the same abuse.

Yeah, as soon as Whelan came on, we started playing the ball through the middle. I'm not sure how much this is Whelan being a good player, or Jedinak just having an absolute stinker. My sense now is that Grealish was helping to cover up the lack of quality in centre mid by coming deep for the ball. With him out, we've exposed how bad our DMs are. On current form, I think Whelan is our best option (I did think it would be Jedinak, but he just doesn't look remotely match fit or interested.)

Love him, but thought he had a below par game until the last 10 mins.

With Grealish and Tuanzebe out, I'd say most of the teams above us. They have settled midfields and defences. We haven't been able to do that. If you're talking about our squad on paper right now and ignoring injuries, then yes I'd agree with you. But given that we're currently in 8th, that's not really saying much is it?

No it's unbalanced, and our star player is injured.

On Dean Smith's performance, I think the only clear mistake he made in terms of team selection was bringing Jedinak in. He doesn't look fit, was off the pace, and then picked up a pointless yellow card. Whelan isn't a great option, but when he came on we looked much sharper in the middle. You can argue about the Kodjia selection, but the logic of that made sense to me. Mings signing looks smart, as does bringing Green back. DS clearly hasn't lost the dressing room - El Ghazi lost the ball at one point and tracked back most of the length of the pitch to win it back. The spirit at the end to bring the result back showed real passion and belief. I also thought Hutton had a decent game going forward, although not perfect defensively. Things that bothered me: We had a plan from the outset to play the diagonal ball over their RCB. Fine, you've identified a weakness, but we kept doing it over and over again, from all over the pitch. If your wingers are your best attacking threat, then it makes sense, but basically we were removing McGinn from the game and conceding possession. We don't play like this when we have Grealish in the team. Neil Taylor's positioning just absolute dog shit as usual. On their 2nd or 3rd goal (can't remember which) he comes charging out to mark the wide man and leaves a massive gap between him and Mings, which their midfielder runs into (admittedly Jedinak doesn't track the run, but I think he's expecting the defence to deal with it). This is basic full back defending (the position Taylor has somehow played all his life) - if you have a choice, stay narrow. Don't go wide unless the ball is wide, or you're in possession. Hourihane hasn't got it. Great set piece delivery, but he gave away a pointless foul in the run up to the first goal. The refereeing. Offside and foul for second goal. Two pens for us imo, expect at least one of them to be given. Jedinak should retire. I was hopeful when I saw him in the lineup, because we've needed someone to have a good game in that possession, but he looked well off the pace, both physically and in terms of his attitude. Didn't show any desire.

Am I the only one who thinks Taylor was at fault for the third goal? Steps up far too wide and leaves a huge channel between him and Mings. Yes, Jedinak doesn't track, but he's probably expecting to have a defender behind him.

Not at good prices. The January transfer window is a rip off. We sorted out the most critical problems - GK and CB - that would have the biggest impact on results. Hutton and Taylor will do for the rest of the season, and then we can get someone at a fair price in the summer. We found one fullback, but presumably loaning him back for half a season was part of the deal.

Let me rephrase it - our lack of a good defensive midfielder is the problem tonight, and has been one of our problems all season. Other problems were GK (sorted), left back (not sorted, and playing shit tonight), CBs (sorted, I think), and RB (having a good game tonight). Does it make more sense now?

Jedinak is the problem. Doesn't look match fit. I do understand the thinking process behind bringing him in, though. I also think Kodjia as a wide forward attacking the far post makes more sense than Smith is getting credit for. We don't have the players for a 4-4-2. The long balls are happening because we don't have the confidence to play through the middle without Grealish in the side. Best attacks are coming from Hutton. I don't really see what DS does to solve this, besides bringing Whelan on for Jedinak!?

Yep, definitely a problem sometimes that the ground is "too big for the match". Similar problems at Sunderland and Sheff Wed. I think also we're a club that went from years of being a mid-table Premier League side to now three years of being basically a mid-table / play-offs Championship side. When was the last time a league match really meant anything? Maybe when we stayed up narrowly under Lambert. Even the season we got relegated it was hardly a nailbiting, touch-and-go thing. Before that I suppose the season when MON nearly got us into the Champions League was great for the fans. But most of the time it's just been the slow drip, drip, drip of mid-table mediocrity for YEARS. I can't think of any other club that has experienced this total lack of rollercoaster excitement over such a long period. Anyway, tonight should be a decent game for the neutral... fingers crossed a decent one for us too.