turvontour

I don’t disagree with you, if we go unbeaten in the next five winning four of those then great, and then maybe win four out of the next five. It’s just that this season to date we win just better than one in four, so we need to see a monumental shift in performances/results for that to materialise. Out of interest, what do you mean by playing without fear, and is that what you see as the problem at the moment? For me, if the players can’t perform at Griffin Park and a half empty City Ground then I don’t fancy our chances of getting out of this division! If I was an ex-Premier league player I would relish going to these pokey mid-table Championship grounds (on the assumption that it was just for one season) just so I could display my talent and enjoy winning matches again. I think we’re seeing just how far away from Premier League quality some of these players are.

Agree with all of this except for the last sentence. Its absolutely critical that we end this season on a high - there’s a huge difference between finishing 9th and 17th for me, if for no other reason than that it would mean that we win a fair few of our remaining games. Also, I don’t believe that we’re suddenly going to go from a 30% win rate to a 60% win rate just because we have a collective pre-season and add some more players (I know you’re not saying this here, but I’ve read similar sentiment), I think it’s far too big a leap to expect from the rut we’re in now. I mean Christ, it’s the start of February and we already know that we won’t be beating Preston, Brentford, Wolves, Leeds and Forest this season! Read those names again, all clubs that we should at least be going toe to toe with at this level. 10 games – and what 4 or 5 points, you’d be looking at it at the start of the season and saying 15-18 points minimum from those. it’s absolutely appalling. Psychologically, we want to be playing these teams next season knowing that we gave them a game (ideally a hammering) the previous year. Otherwise, we start getting into the routine that we used to against Man U and Arsenal where a win felt like a miracle. I can just see it now, "that’s a good point at Brentford, last season we got thumped there remember." Players associate matches with past performances, I’m sure of it. Perhaps a contributing factor as to why we were so strong at places like Sunderland and to a lesser degree at Anfield, I don’t know. If we just treat the rest of the season as an experiment, and give the kids a go, I feel that it would have the potential to dent the current morale in the camp further.

A clear out on that scale wont happen, but im more on board with that sentiment than to just hope things improve. The go again mentality. I just keep coming back to Alan Hutton and away games for some reason (i appreciate he didnt play yesterday, could prob use Bacuna, just Hutton seems more amusing). If you're Hutton, and you've been on 76 away coach journeys (38 games, so there and back) and youve won two of those games, surely your beyond giving a hoot how you or the team perform, within reason. It really worries me for the new players who mix with them and will with time adopt a similar mentality. I said before the Brentford game that the players in the line up are largely immaterial at present while the team collectively is so broken. Westwood or Lansbury. Mccormack or Rhodes. Doesnt matter. I really cant fathom a solution to it though which is frustrating, but then its not my job/responsibilty to do so.

Its the club thats the problem. It cant be the personnel; there's been too many changes of team, tactics, manager, players etc that it must must run far deeper than that. Ive just read someone say sack Bruce because he's got a sh*t away record. They've ALL had sh*t away records!

Sadly, i dont think teams necessarily see us as a big scalp anymore, and equally i dont believe that they up their games for us. However, i feel that we're a lot more disliked in this division than in any season in recent times due to our transfer policy essentially being to take the better players from each team. I can buy in to the idea that Brentford, Barnsley, Forest, Bristol City, Fulham etc will all up their games against us because we have weakened their team, rather than them seeing us as a chance at a giant killing. I mean invariably we're going to be in a lower league position than the teams we play anyway.

I’d imagine that he drowsily rubs his eyes, takes a moment to focus on his lavish surroundings, and then proceeds to p*** himself laughing for the next half an hour. Seriously though I’ve got nothing against Hutton, its Villa and football in general that I’m annoyed at for allowing it.

"A must win game" surely the most annoying phrase in football. This couldnt be any less a must win game, and is probably the least important game of the season so far, as we are to all intents and purposes out of the playoff race and way above the relegation zone. Not having a dig at you John, i just really cant stand that phrase. Was presumably dreamed up by sky to provide some relevance to dreary mid-table nothing fixtures like Saturday's game.

Im pretty irate about the signing too!

2 away wins in 4 days for Lambert and Weimann. We haven’t recorded back to back away wins since 2014. Although, we did have the great Phillipe Senderos marshalling the defence back then which made us more or less impenetrable. Seriously though wtf, don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this stage. Put this in the push for the playoffs thread just for the lols.

I don’t think expectation levels are overly high, most fans are accepting of the fact that we won’t go straight back up. The fact that we are playing clubs like Brentford and not even putting up a fight when a goal down is where the frustration is coming from. There was absolutely zero chance that we were going to turn that around in the second half last night. The players knew it, the manager knew it, and sadly the fans knew it.

Only four teams in the division have won fewer games than us. Doesnt exactly scream promotion at you does it......

Was it an away game today?

How has Green been voted motm by the way, looked well out of his depth for me. Missed a sitter of a header and had a few bursts down the wing with no end product. They were all bad though granted.

Bruce got it wrong and was too stubborn to change it. Could see after 25 mins where the game was heading. Absolutely no desire to turn it around from all quarters. No subs til too late, no player to drag us back into it. Hopefully just a very bad experiment. Saddest thing for me is that losing 3-0 to Brentford doesnt even come as a surprise.

He looks like he's lacking belief for me. Absolutely no conviction in his crosses whatsoever.

Absolutely phenomenal the away support by the way. One of the few positives of the last few years for me. Would be intrigued to see how many some of the supposed bigger clubs would be taking away if in our position.

Oh its hugely pschological, i agree. If youre Alan Hutton (not singling him out, just he's been a constant over the last two years) and youve travelled to and been a part of 2 away wins in 35, surely you're now at the point where you dont really go away expecting to get anything. He's human at the end of the day and we've fallen into a routine. What worries me is the impact it has on the new players, because i presume in some cases that they wont even know we're awful away.

The worst one far a while for me, OK a lot of new faces but there's no threat one we go a goal down as usual. What do the players even say to eachother on the coach to and from the away games, cant imagine there being any camaraderie? Hourihane, "Hutton, whats the craic like on the road?" Hutton, "fairly grim mate, we never win. You'll get used to it." Its infectious sadly.

Ye, its winning thats the problem, not going unbeaten. There are only 4 teams in the entire division that have won fewer games than us. I was thinking earlier how odd it would be if we were to go the entire season unbeaten at home but not do the double over anyone. Our first chance at a double is v Rotherham in March. Odd season..

This. I really hope we do try and get as many wins as possible under our belts and go into next season on a high. Weve won 30% of our games so far this season. You need to win roughly 60% of your games to go up or be in the mix. The change of win rate is going to be some ask.

I agree with all of that apart from the last sentence. One of the key reasons that we wont be going up this season is that we draw half of our matches. I just feel that as a club we have become fairly accepting of that type of result and that we need to shake it by next season if we want to be in the mix. Maybe im wrong, perhaps its just the few people i spoke to yesterday. Maybe Bruce is in there hammering them at full time saying that we absolutely cant afford to draw anymore games in this division. I guess we'll never now. I think Newcastles record sums it up, one draw this season, and that was against us......

Im completely with you on the home form being a positive and it was vitally important to turn that around given recent years. But Villa Parks hardly a fortress is it, we've won less than half our home games, 5 or 6 so far? Teams in the play offs will have won 9 or 10 at home.

I didnt mean it like that, and i agree its great that games are no longer a probable defeat at VP like previous seasons. I was saying that being unbeaten at home doesnt actually tell you anything about how your fairing that season, its a pointless benchmark. You can be promoted as Champions with an unbeaten home record and you can finish bottom with an unbeaten home record.

As i said in another thread, you can go down while being unbeaten for a season. Its such a pointless statistic.

Its a bad result. Made even more so by the fact that we rarely win away.