Mandy Lifeboats

Tune in next week to see Dick Dastardly attempt to stop the drone using a demolition ball hung from a Sopwith Camel.

Discovered uninhabited by a Portuguese Captain in the employment of Spain. First settled by the French. Handed to the UK partially by treaty and partially by purchase. Not sure of the Royal Navy’s role in this one.

Having Charles as head of state does not make you part of the British Empire. I love your idea that Argentina should own the Falklands because it’s closest. When will the US be giving Alaska to Canada? They are much closer. There are hundreds of examples like that. Just from memory - UK, Spain, Denmark, Russia, Portugal, Turkey and France all own land that’s closer to another country.

Would you risk that?

I think you have answered your own question. Turkey controls the Black Sea. They have prevented any new warships entering the Black Sea. This sends a clear message to Russia that escalation will not be ignored.

Interesting news coming out of Turkey. The Turkish Defense Minister is stating that they will allow USA ships into the Black Sea in order to protect NATO surveillance drones from attack. That's a massive headache for Russia.

99.9% of the land acquired for the British Empire was acquired by means that were completely indefensible. My main point is simply that the Falklands and Gibraltar are the exception. We do have very legitimate claims to both. These weren't like Australia where we "found" the land, deemed the inhabitants to be sub-human and ethnically cleansed it. My secondary point is that even if Gibraltar and Falklands aren't British, the countries claiming ownership have very flawed claims. But compare that position to somewhere like Palestine. Why the hell were we there and look at the horrendous position we left it in. But even if we hadn't been involved there's thousands of years of actual history plus thousands of years of religious beliefs to unravel.

Mystic Mooney predicts........

Absolutely first class.

Oh.......I see now........ That's a very clear answer to: - Why do you think Canada/ Australia isn't independent from the UK? - Why do you think that Argentina are the rightful owners of the Falklands.

Yes and no. You hold your views and you express them. That’s great. This is a football forum and the debate on football matters can get very emotive. But off topic is full of people with differing views putting them forward in an informative and often humorous way. What does frustrate me is that you make statements and then fail to follow up polite requests to explain and expand upon your viewpoint. I’d still love to hear your answers to the questions I asked you at the very start of this thread.

to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Intelligent conversation and conversation without bitterness or abuse. It's just a shame that @villakram hasn't contributed his viewpoint.

Spot on!

It's only my opinion. I am sure others take the view that Northern Ireland is legitimate whilst Gibraltar isn't. But in my opinion .....we got Gibraltar in a settlement that suited all parties. The agreement was reviewed and renewed over a sustained period. Treaty of Utrecht 1713 ceded it to to Britain. This was replaced by the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This was replaced by the Treaty of Versailles 1783. Spain would like Gibraltar back. But its a claim that doesn't have anywhere near the strength of feeling associated with other land disputes. Its not even remotely like Palestine or Crimea where people are willing to die.

We captured Gibraltar (along with the Dutch) on behalf of one of the parties claiming the Spanish throne. It was then given to us by treaty.

Sorry but that's not how I see it. Russia cannot afford to draw NATO into the conflict. Its armed forces wouldn't last 7 days. The only way this war will involve nukes is if a large amount of NATO boots cross a significant distance across the Russian border. I see no reason why that would happen.

The British Empire had a terrible history. We were as bad as it gets. We should pay attention to history whether it's good or bad. We had absolutely no legitimate claim on 99% of the British Empire. Gibraltar and the Falklands are the other 1%.

Even that standpoint is subject to debate. The closest part of Argentina to the Falklands is " Isla de Los Estados". That's an area where the indigenous population regard themselves as being part of the country we now know as Chile.

A great post @blandy. A really good potted history. The section above is the only bit that is a matter of debate. A British ship saw an island in that area. It cannot be confirmed that it was the Falklands. But there aren't many other possibilities. It's highly likely that it was. A few years later a Dutch ship saw an island in that area that we know was the Falklands. A few years lated a British ship and crew actually landed on the Falklands.

OK.....there's a few points there. The earliest evidence of humans on the Falklands dates back 600 or 700 years. But it takes the form of animals that were hunted and killed there. There is no evidence of inhabitation. The Royal Navy produced the first definitive historical record of the Falklands. They found it uninhabited. This was not an age when the British would deny the existence of indigenous populations. They would simply tell them that they were now British subjects and slaughter them if they objected. The French occupied the island. They also found it uninhabited but they did notice the British Military Prescence. They too were not known for worrying about trivialities like indigenous populations. There were clearly humans visiting the Falklands before the British (see above) but they were not Argentinian because there was no such country. They could have been from anywhere. The British did chase off numerous visitors to the islands. But they did not eject settlers. We did that in many places and recorded it in great detail. But not 8n the Falklands. Argentina's claim on the Falkllands is simply that they are the nearest country to them. I can't dispute that. But the Falklands is an anomaly in the building of the British Empire. We didn't invade. We didn't slaughter the indigenous population. No-one noticed. No-one cared. It wasn't hugely important. It didn’t have lots of natural resources. It was a handy place for ships to replenish stores and avoid bad weather. We even abandoned it leaving just a plaque to remind people that it was ours.

Nukes are a weapon of last resort. Even if Russia lost all of the land it’s taken since 2014 it’s nowhere near the point where nukes become an option. Russia keeps reminding people that it has nukes in order to spread fear and create opposition to the war. Don’t fall for it. Nukes are stopping NATO destroying what’s left of the Russian Army and taking Moscow. They are very effective in achieving that.

@villakram You made some claims in the other thread and I’d like to hear your viewpoint. I ascertain that Gibraltar was given to the UK by Spain. The Spanish Civil Wars of Succession refer. You say it wasn’t. Please explain how we got it? You say we need to grant Australia and Canada their independence. I say they are independent. I say the have their own laws, government, money and can remove the King as head of state at any time. Please explain why they are not independent? The first verifiable sighting of the Falklands was by the British Navy. It was uninhabited. The first settlement on the Falklands was by the French. It was uninhabited. Argentina did not exist at this time. Please explain how Argentina can own an uninhabited island settled by French before Argentina existed? ————————————————- With regard to the British Empire I shall use your twisted logic to explain things. It’s not our fault. Us peaceful Brits were invaded by the Normans in 1066. They still occupy the country today. So blame the French. However…..the Normans were actually Viking settlers. So the French can blame a group of people from what we now call Scandinavia. So blame the Swedes, Danes and Norwegians. However…..the Viking races were heavily influenced and conquered by the people of what we now call Finland. So blame the Finns. However…….Russia claims Finland is part of Russia. So the crimes of the British Empire were caused by Russians. See how easy it is.

Gibraltar was absolutely given to the UK. What’s your version of how it became ours?

Ok…….let’s deal with some of those. Gibraltar was given to the UK. It was not taken by force. Australia and Canada are independent. The Falklands may not be British but the definitely aren’t Argentinian. Argentina didn’t exist when the British first set foot on the Falklands.

TASS is reporting that German oil imports from Russia have reduced by 99.9% in 2023.