NormandyVillan

I don't want to be boring either, but it should in fact be pointed out that THIS IS NOT TRUE! O'Neill has won 7 in 11 INCLUDING CUP GAMES. So if you want to compare that with what McLeish has done all season, you must include McLeish's cup games as well. McLeish has won 8 games. I think most fair-minded people would agree that 7 is NOT more than 8. In fact, it's not even as many. It's... LESS!

Indeed, for He is the Almighty. Alex-u Akbar! Smite the infidels!

When you put in the full run of seasons, it's hard to describe this as "progress", although I recognise your intent was satirical. Well, yes, I did say "if you look hard enough". I wasn't really intending to be either anti-McLeish or pro-McLeish, although I suppose those stats indicate that McLeish's start has hardly been unprecedently poor. As regards managers' potential to improve results after a slow start: O'Neill certainly proved he had that potential, although he spent quite a lot of money to achieve the moderate success of successive 6th place finishes. Houllier we'll never know, although I suspect he would not have been as successful as O'Neill. McLeish? I suspect he won't either, especially with cash being tight, but it's still a case of wait and see. The football has been fairly dire at times, but the results have not been disastrously poor so far, more like just a fraction below par. A win against QPR and he'll have as many wins as defeats and we'll be back in the top half (8th to 10th depending on other results), which for me would be about what you would have expected from an averagely competent manager. I'll be generous and give him 5.8 out of 10 so far and a "Could do better." Or perhaps that should be "Might do better, you never know..."

As some people have rightly pointed out, 6 wins in 22 League games is not very impressive, but if you look hard enough you can still interpret that as long-term progress: It took O’Neill 24 games to reach 6 wins. It took Houiller 23 games to reach 6 wins. It took McLeish 22 games to reach 6 wins. So the good news is that, if we keep progressing at the same rate, we can look forward to seeing an immediately successful manager as early as about 2050.

I agree, but knowing our manager’s insatiable appetite for attacking football I’d say it’s more likely to be somewhere between 4-1 and 7-3 to Villa. At any rate, I expect another dazzling display of McLeish’s Dutch-style ‘total football’ with: ..........................Van Given Huttenbrink, Van Dunne, Krollins, Van der Vaarnock Van Herdegem, Van de Petrof, N’Cruyffbia, Heeskens .................Agbonelaar, Bentkamp It’s just a pity we won’t be able to wear orange shirts because of the colour clash.

Apparently it was in 1963 and that was Villa's longest ever series of home defeats. If we lose to Everton the all-time record will be equalled.

December's a good time to play Liverpool at home. 5-1 to Villa (HT: 5-1).

Exactly what I was thinking. Sudden wave of optimism on Villa Talk?

I believe the difference is that Sky only count the time the ball is in play, whilst the BBC stats source count all the time. So if a Spurs player kicked the ball out for a Villa goal kick, the moment the ball went over the line, the Sky stat source would stop the clock and not start in until the goal kick has been taken. Whilst the BBC source would count this period as Villa possession. So Villa's "ball possession" would include the incredible amount of time spent holding the ball while preparing to take throw-ins. I don't know if this was because the players were time-wasting to hold onto a "respectable" 2-0 defeat (which is embarrassing), or just because they are as clueless with the ball in their hands as with the ball at their feet, and there is no one moving to receive the ball in a decent position. Either way, it was as frustrating as hell. Thirty seconds of dithering around every time before basically throwing it back to Spurs via someone's head. My God we are crap...

I’m glad to see that everyone else is as impressed as I was by what we witnessed last night. So congratulations to all involved in last night’s heroic performance at Tottenham, where our players fought tooth and nail to cling onto a highly creditable 2-0 defeat against one of the best teams in the world. The admirable spirit of self-sacrifice was epitomised for me in the 90th minute when Stiliyan Petrov, completed undaunted by the risk of a red card, lunged in perfectly to fell Gareth Bale just inches outside the penalty area. Well done to our very own Captain Marvel for that act of heroism, and to each and every one of the players who worked so hard to achieve such a splendid result. With such warriors in our ranks, we are surely destined for greatness. “To dare is to do”, as the slogan proclaims at White Hart Lane, and without wishing to be too rashly optimistic, I believe that with this team of heroes, with this indomitable fighting spirit, even the glittering prize of a point at Swansea could be within our grasp.

Staring at what? Like most people, I'm not too optimistic about this one, but the good news is we only need to avoid an 11-goal defeat to stay in the top 8. I'm quietly confident we'll manage that.

Come on Villa. I want to see us 5th by 5 o'clock tomorrow!

I'm surprised that quite a few people seem to think there was something 'spirited' about Villa's performance on Saturday. To me it looked a game between a team who knew they didn't have a chance and a team who knew they didn't have to try too hard to win, and could afford to save their energy for the bigger tests coming up. And it all proceeded to its inevitable conclusion, with City jogging to an easy win in a flat, half-paced match. The French commentator I was listening to kept talking about the the "surprising lack of aggression" from Villa, how it seemed like McLeish was resigned to defeat from the start, etc. And frankly that's the way it looked to me too. I saw Everton (a club in a similar position to Villa - cash-strapped and not looking like they're going anywhere much) play at City a few weeks ago. They at least put up a fight, frustrated City for over an hour and made them work hard to get the points. Saturday's match, in contrast, looked too much like a stroll in the park for them. This seeming lack of passion from Villa has been the biggest disappointment for me so far under McLeish. His time at Blues didn't lead me to expect much good football, but I was expecting more fight.

I think it's too much to hope we'll be awarded any points without actually playing a game.

What? Villa are not going there just to try to keep the score down! This is the Battle of the Invincibles! A Clash of the Titans if ever there was one! Okay, I understand the pessimism. This could well end up with City looking a tad more invincible than us. But at least there's a couple of factors that might help to limit the damage: 1) Man Utd play at Liverpool in the early kick-off. If Utd drop points there, City will only have to win to go top and won't need any extra goals. 2) City have a Champions League game only 3 days later and may want to save some energy for that. In any event, I'd like to see Villa have a real go at this. I'm not optimistic about getting any points from the game, but I'd like to see something better than a meek surrender.

Just my thoughts on NUFC as a team at the moment: I've seen them play 3 times so far this season. 0-0 v Arsenal (sound looking defence, but uninspired in attack). 0-0 at QPR (poor performance and lucky to get away with a draw). 1-1 at Villa (much better, should have won, generally quite impressive with good passing and movement, although Villa were giving them way too much room). Sorry, I didn't see any of the games you won... Overall I'd say Newcastle look good enough to challenge for a place in Europe next season, although I'd be surprised if they stay in the Top 4. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I woud beg to differ. Have a look at our recent home form against this team and I would say 3 points is far from expected but would be very welcome :winkold: Indeed. Villa's Premier League record versus other ever-present teams (12 teams) in the last six seasons (since Wigan were promoted): Fewest wins: 0 (v. Arsenal, Man Utd & Wigan) Fewest points: 3 (v. Arsenal, Man Utd & Wigan) Fewest goals scored: 2 (v. Wigan) Most goals conceded: 12 (v. Man Utd) Worst goal difference: -8 (v. Man Utd) Worst goal average: 0.25 (v. Wigan) Fewest leads taken: 0 (v. Wigan) Statistically this is on a par with Man Utd as our hardest home fixture.

Exactly what I feared would happen this season. We looked a decent team at times from January onwards last season with those three attacking down the flanks and Bent providing the goalscoring threat up top. Now all three are gone and there's not much happening for us in attack.

Is someone going to start another "Race for Fourth" thread if we win this? After all, we WILL be fourth for at least a day if we win and Wolves lose or draw against QPR. Then if Stoke lose or draw at Sunderland and Liverpool lose or draw at Spurs on Sunday, we'll stay fourth for at least a week! I haven't seen anything to suggest we'd be likely to stay in the top four for very long, but it would be nice while it lasted...

I'd be more worried about a 9 year old using that sort of language. Indeed, but I like his sense of humour. Stiliyan “I’ll Run Faster After I’ve Put This Fridge Down” Petrov.

Is that pronounced "chew cock" or "chewy cock"?

Wouldn't want either. I think £10m + Kuyt for Downing would be an outstanding deal for Villa. I've never understood why some people don't rate Kuyt. Fantastic work rate, never stops running, no small skill, scores quite regularly whatever position he's playing in, makes things happen by sheer persistence... what more do people want?

Well, the correct English would be "with Stewart and ME in it". Andy Carroll in incorrect pronoun shock :shock:

Or maybe it's 3): McCleish was already friendly with and well respected by people at Villa, and would have been a leading candidate from the start if he had been available, but poaching the local rivals' manager was not considered as an option. Then he resigned (without any prompting from Villa) and the situation changed. Although I'm not thrilled about having McLeish as manager, I tend to think the truth is more like 3) than 2), although there may also be a bit of 1) (other managers were approached but were not interested or demanded too much money to spend on players). All just speculation, of course...

According to that Mirror article, Ayestaran left for Benfica in 2008. The 2008-2009 season was arguably Liverpool's most impressive in recent history (even though they won nothing). A close second in the League with a huge points total and only two defeats all season. So if Ayestaran leaving was the reason for Benitez's failure in his last season at Liverpool, it must have been a delayed effect.