HolteExile

The checks are here to stay aren't they? They'll be even more useful this year, to distinguish us from West Ham. Which would have been even more difficult with the same kit manufacturer.

I don't think he's been given the chance has he? Lambert remains my first choice. I'm increasingly nervous about Solksjaer, I'm not sure he's right for the job at this point. Unless we give him a fair bit of money we'll be in and around the relegation spots again next year and he's not used to that. I think the main attraction of a figure like Solskjaer, Rodgers and co is -as well as playing a more attractive and progressive style of football than the previous incumbent (not hard) they should also be well placed to spot talented young (or not previously well known) players on the way up. Before they start to command really mental fees. Ergo a manager of that ilk could probably make £10-15 million stretch a long way. Whoever we select, after a season of narrowly avoiding the drop, I don't think we'll spend less than that. A Benitez (or even McPish) have a preference for the 'play it safe' option of players who have already made it. And the fees generally reflect that, as we've seen.

If you're selling us on that basis, he's probably better off where he is. Why go through the hassle of moving and all that entails just for 3/4 league placings? Fortunately, I disagree that 7th-9th would be 'over-achieving' for a club like Villa. Whilst not demanding 6th or higher as of right, historically that's where we've been more often than not, certainly since the foundation of the Prem. With the standard of the league at present, 6th or higher for the Villa in the next few years will be overachieving. Just staying in the league for Norwich would still be overachieving. The core of that side is still players that were around since League One, their wages were/are probably inferior to a lot of Championship clubs. Lambert (or whoever else for that matter) will get plenty of leeway in at least the first two seasons if we're not in and around 6th place, due to the underperformance of the last clown, and the attritional joyless football that had become the norm on his watch. Providing they at least take the fight to the opposition and actually set up to try to win matches, that alone will be enough in the medium> short term. But no Villa manager should ever be said to have 'overachieved' by finishing mid table.

I take your overall point dukes, but it's possible that with a near similar amount to spend at the Villa he'd stay where he is. He knows the club, knows the players and -crucially they are (for the most part) HIS players. The fans also love him there and -as an outsider- he might look at the stick that both GH and McLeish received in recent years (in both cases justified, mind) and decide not to chance it. The club has only just dodged relegation this season (even if squad wise we should have been nowhere near the drop zone) and he might just think that if he's sitting in 14-16 place with us next March he'll be getting it in the neck, and a promising career is up in ruins. Personally, I think he'll be given far more leeway that the last two - if he continues to do what he's done at Norwich and 'have a go.' Regardless of the calibre of the opposition. But it's a consideration all the same, if he values his reputation (as I'm sure he does). Then if we look at the two sets of players: I think even most Norwich fans would concede that we have the better squad by far. But some of our lot have been in cruise control for a few seasons now, happy just to coast and pick up their 40-60k a week. The Norwich lads have come up this season with a degree of hunger, desperate to prove themselves. Unlike our pisstakers, who think they've already made it. Were he to come in, he might want to move a number of players on and reshape the side. But -as we've seen- underperforming players on fat contracts are difficult to shift. In some cases they have to be paid off, or their deals simply left to expire. So there is less scope to trade. Then those same shitheads that contributed to the demise of the last two managers bring him down. Whereas at Norwich, the wages of his players are such that -if he needs to move a few on- he can do it. And use any money generated to pool towards squad strengthening -rather than payoffs. I'd bank on his players to still have that hunger to prove themselves next year too. Might not be enough to avoid second season syndrome, but we'll see.

£30 million? I'm sure I seen a press conference from PL recently when he was quite open about there being little money to spend, as finances we're still tight from 2/3 years ago. I can definitely see a scenario whereby the club would try and loosen the purse strings to persuade him to stay, but the figure there might just be a tad ambitious. A £30 million spend this summer will probably make you one of the biggest spenders in the top flight, it's unlikely that even some of the established clubs will spend that. As an example, we spent £40 million in 2008 and were the second highest spenders in Europe. £35 million in 2009 had us second only to Man Citeh. Everton, Tottenham, Newcastle and co haven't spent close to those amounts these past few years, and the suggestion is that most clubs will spend even less this summer. As for Lambert, he'd definitely be an upgrade on McLeish (not hard). Some are concerned because of the similarities to MON, but MON had his plus points too. However if we opt for a DoF (as has been mooted) that would most likely put the kybosh on any chance of Lambert.

It's mostly a decent article. But it ignores the fact that we were in the top/2/3 spenders in the league for the three summers MON was here (more even than Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal). Indeed, in 2008 we were the second highest spenders in Europe. So moderate budget? Not really, no.

Good point well made.

As I mentioned elsewhere Frank DeBoer fits the bill perfectly. A few years ago it may have been unrealistic to expect us to prise a manager away from Ajax but given the economic gulf between the respective leagues I think we could do it. I'm sure I read a few years back that one of the De Boer twins was a Villa fan. Or that Villa was the English club whose results one of them used to look out for when they were younger.

I think Given was head and shoulders above everyone else this year - from the first game of the season until now. Ireland has been much improved - but still up and down form wise (which I suppose is still an improvement on last year). On the positive side to this, Stevie is a confidence player - and this can only help in that regard. It shows a degree of resolve to bounce back the way he has this seasn after his treatment under Houllier - and still not being a first team regular up until Keane's departure. If we do sell him this summer, clubs won't be able to bend us over and get him for peanuts. We can simply say 'Player of the Year - sensible offers only.' If any club were to offer £8 million + I'd be tempted. But I wouldn't be distraught to see him remain at all. A manager who doesn't have an aversion to flair players might get even more from him. And we will -touch wood- have one of those on board by the time the new season gets underway in August.

True. If I had to guess I'd say it's because their position is being proven right i.e. they said he'd fail all along. I don't necessarily think they like Villa being where they are, they're just taking a little too much joy from them being right. Not that many thought he'd be a glowing success anyway.For me personally it is totally mixed emotions and I think in order to try and understand some of the "revelling" (not sure it is that but I will use that word to explain it) that people are saying they are seeing then you have to look at the reaction that people were faced with at the start of the season when they were against the appointment and were not prepared to give any chance to Mcleish, or were prepared to give the chance and were vehemently opposed to him joining. There was vilification to their opinion, so it is only reasonable now to expect those fans to feel vindicated. Speaking for myself I have had loads of shite thrown at me for my opinions on 1. MON 2. Houllier 3. Mcleish and for my opinion 3 years ago on Lerner (if that plea to Randy Lerner thread had not been cropped it would make for interesting reading). After some of the stuff aimed my way it is hard to not feel a little vindicated now. It does not mean I am happy where Villa are, quite the opposite in fact it is even more frustrating because it was predicted, the opinion rubbished and has still come to pass. See, I don't see any vindication in that at all. Your appeal for Lerner to sell was at a time when he was pumping money into the club and MON was recklessley spending it. So I think most would view that as spoilt brat syndrome. What has come to pass since then doesn't make you a prophet, or 'right.' As you weren't concerned about how the club was being run and whether the method was sustainable. You simply wanted MORE spending. Come hell or highwater. As for McLeish, I'd say the vast majority had major doubts about his suitability and record. But it's not as if we were appointing a complete novice or Carlton Palmer-type figure. His CV is mixed: the equal (at least) of MON in the hothouse that is Glasgow, CL experience with Rangers, signing Arteta for peanuts; international experience with Scotland and even winning a major trophy for a two bob outfit like the B-lose. Against that, you have the third placed finish in a two horse race up north, two recent relegations (with a team last year who probably weren't the third worst team in the division) and a style of football that made MON's approach look positively progressive. But -once the dust had settled- I think most of us hoped there was enough in the 'positives' section to try and convince ourselves that the appointment wouldn't be a total disaster, and the season a complete write off. We all know how it's turned out, but I take absolutely no joy in the fact that the doubts I had about the man have come to pass.

If the worst should happen, I'm near certain that KMac and Sid would get the gig. They know the players, would be perfect to help the youth/ Academy graduates transition to the first team and - crucially- would probably be the cheapest option too.

You'd like to think so CB. But after having to nervously look over our shoulder well into April last season, it looks like he wanted to go one better! How else to you explain selling our player of the year last season (Downing) and then appointing a relegation specialist like McPish. A truly woeful decision - and one we might feel the consequences of for years to come. Good luck against United - anything that pisses on Ol' Laughing Boy Fergiescums cornflakes is fine by me.

Total myth about Fergie being close to the sack. Aye. He got them to finish second in his first full season. It was into year 4 - after countless millions spent (biggest spenders in the country, in fact and only lower>mid table league position) that the knives were out. There probably is a worthwhile comparison with McLeish in there somewhere, but I'm struggling to see it.

Our aims are as follows: 1. Get the wage bill down 2. To address the wage bill 3. Make sure there is a reduction in the wage bill There is also the little matter of fulfilling 38 fixtures in the season, and getting them out of the way. But that's not as important as the above, it seems. If nothing else, this season should act as a lesson to the bean counters that you can't hope to effectively throw a season (as we did, with the appointment of this numpty) and not suffer the consequences. Reducing the wage bill is prudent, but when it becomes the near enough the ONLY consideration, and you take your eye of the ball vis a vis playing matters to the extent RL and co did, you're screwed anyway. As interest/ revenue from the paying public drops. Those who have found a new hobby at weekends and a better way to spend their money cannot be banked on to return once McLimp is made to walk the plank either. They will have lost a lot of trust in this board, and when you lose trust it's very hard to get it back.

This was being flagged as a definite signing last week in some quarters. Now it is only a trial. Maybe the powers that be are -finally- having doubts about McLeish, and are reluctant to commit to any more permanent deals if there are questions over his future? I'll look for any crumb of comfort at present! Not slating the lads ability - don't know much about him, truth be told. Doesn't seem Hearts were desperate to keep him though. Not a great sign, that.

It's an interesting point. I do wonder whether RL felt an unease in the way we celebrated the demise of our nearest and dearest, and his appointment of the wee ginner (and the payout B-lose received- just enough for them to avoid administration ) was his naive attempt to bridge the divide. Makes about as much sense as any other reason put forward.

to be fair, era for era and level for level Villa have signed some really big players !! Yeah, to me it seems that you're equaling exciting and big players with players from outside of Britain. Merson, Saunderd, McGrath and a few more I'd call big players. But big players from outside of Britain we haven't had that many, that's true. But we got Nilis, and he was both a great and foreign player. But I guess he's the only one. But in terms of excitment the likes of Merson, Saunders and Mcgrath aren't the same as when a team like Newcastle signed Owen and Shearer. I'm not saying you haven't signed players with good reputations, but as far as I can remember you've never been a club that has signed the truely big names of the era. Mcgrath turned out to be an awesome signing for you, but he wasn't one of the stars of world football when you signed him. You've signed plenty of excellent players and done well as a club, but in terms of head turning signings, they've been remarkably thin on the ground for some reason. Other clubs of similar stature do seem to have signed much more eye catching names. Shearer and Owen for example were not only starters, but seen as star players for the national team when Newcaslte bought them. Whilst the likes of Merson were really just good squad players at international level. But as you say, it's more evident with foreign names. I the grand scheme of world football someone like Luc Nilis is a bit of a nobody. Yet a club like Boro signed Juninho and Ravenelli, who at the time were huge names. I couldn't believe it when they signed Juninho and the press coverage was huge. There doesn't seen to be any Shearer, Owen, Lineker, Asprilla, Juninho, Ravinelli, Klinsman, Davids, Gullit or Weah types signings in your history. Basically no really big names from abroad or star players for the England national team. It hasn't done you any harm over the years, but for some reason you've never signed any of the big names of world football. It's the same with Everton. It's a fair point. We had Juninho locked in Ellis's office at VP early in 1999. But either Herbert or John Gregory bottled it at the last minute. We were about 2nd/ 3rd in the league then. Hard to say whether a signing like Juninho would have got us over the line, but it will forever be one of those 'what if? ' moments. Prior to that, we were offered Gary Line-acre in the 1988/89 season (prior to Tottingham signing him) but Ellis told then manger Graham Taylor that if we signed him, we wouldn't be able to sign another player for 18 months. Herbert also reckons he wanted to sign Roberto Carlos in 1995, after seeing him play for Brazil v Sweden in the Umbro Cup at Villa Park. But then he would say that. I think in most cases it's probably fair to say that foreigners would much prefer London over the charms of sunny Birmingham (can't think why). Not that the old Tottingham way of making one sexy signing per summer and throwing him into a horribly unbalanced team is necessarily the way to go either, of course. But against that, we should have punched our weight far more when it comes to the bigger names. It's probably a big part of the reason why we have gone from being seen as unquestionably one of the biggest sides in the land to a parochial, slightly dull outfit, with limited appeal outside of the UK. Albeit we still have a big stadium and some of the other trappings of a big club.

Dean Saunders. I had a feeling Collywobbles would be a disappointment and he was - to put it mildly. Dean had moved for a British transfer record fee little over 12 months previous, and joined for a figure not a million miles off that. He looked sharp on his debut, Leeds away IIRC. His home debut is one of my fondest memories of a Villa fan. To roll the Redscouse over and make it look so easy. There was a little moment during that game - probably when we were 4-1 up- that I looked up at the scoreboard, looked around me at the Trinity, Witton and Holte rocking and felt this wasn't just one good performance or result in isolation, this was the start of something. A new go ahead era. And it was. Closest I've got to recapturing that feeling was when we beat Chelsea 2-0 at Villa Park early into the 2007/08 season.

Ah what you need, is Maher. Adam Maher is a special one. He is a playmaker/midfielder and will cost 10-30 million euro. Quite a big range but thats because he is very young. I have no idea what he wants in his career, stay alittle longer in the Dutch league or leaving soon. Hope and think he will stay if I am honest. You will see him at one of the best clubs in the world soon enough. Will become a Dutch international very soon too. He plays at AZ and is already their mvp. The only thing which isnt good, is.. he doesnt play for Ajax. And I am afraid he never will. More talented than Eriksen, love him just as much as my personal favorite, Van der Vaart. Wouldnt be a Spanish/Dutch/German head coach a nice idea? They know about total football, much much more than me ... Anyway here some interesting players I know: Stekelenburg (10) – AS Roma - goalkeeper – Italian league is shitty nowadays Vorm (5?) – Swansea City – goalkeeper – From Swansea to Villa is a step up still? I know the table standings but… Gomes (?) – Spurs – goalkeeper – how can he become so bad? He was such a terrific goalkeeper at PSV! Might leave? Emanuelson (5-15) – AC Milan – midfielder – perhaps you can get him cheap once he is on the bench there, he is a starting player atm though Strootman (10-15) PSV – midfielder – new Van Bommel Kuyt (bosman/1 year contract? Less than 5 million orso?) – Liverpool – hard worker– Holman and Kuyt is perhaps abit to much, but he did pretty well at Liverpool right? Think he will leave Wijnaldum (5-10) PSV – midfielder – still to playful, does know how to play football though De Jong (10-15) – Twente – striker – Hollands next striker, not as good as Huntelaar/Van Nistelrooij/Kluivert though Narsingh (5) – Heerenveen – winger – decent, your typical Dutch winger, think he will leave Elia (10) Juventus – winger – sitting at the bench there, picking his nose, think he will leave Douglas (10) – Twente – defender – beast Van der Wiel (6-12) - Ajax – right back – will leave, very good at attacking, could be better at defending El Hamdaoui (1-2..) – Ajax – striker – had a fight with De Boer, never plays anymore, was a very good striker! Havent played for quite awhile though.. worth the risk, will leave Alderweireld (10) – Ajax – defender – decent, nothing that special Anita (10-15) – Ajax – defensive midfielder/playmaker – you will laugh with his girly name and being a tiny human, just wait till you see him playing he is good! Sulejmani (5-10) – Ajax – winger – to bad he had so many injuries, he once was the next big thing Enoh (5) – Ajax – defensive midfielder – animal Aissati (bosman) – Ajax – midfielder – such a shame he never made it at Ajax and PSV, he was good for Twente a while ago. As bosman worth the risk, will leave I think Eriksen (15-35) – Ajax – midfielder – you know him, closest to Maher in this list Vertonghen (10-15) – Ajax – defender / playmaker – he will be quite sensational when he will enter the English or Spanish league, will leave I am afraid.. Kalas (?) – Vitesse/Chelsea – defender – decent player, dont know if he is good enough for Chelsea, to young anyway for now Bony (8-15) – Vitesse – striker – egocentric but good, great dibbling, will leave I think Schone (bosman) – NEC – midfielder/playmaker – Schalke and Twente are interested to sign him, dont know if he is able to survive the Premier League, worth the risk, will leave Tyton (5-10) – PSV – goalkeeper – decent, braveheart Ooijer (bosman) – Ajax – defender – just kidding, just want to wake you up with this wall of text! Toivonen (10) – PSV – attacking midfielder – bit annoying and whiny, scores alot, might leave Lens (5) – PSV – winger/striker – decent enough, might leave Babel (5?) Hoffenheim – winger – decent enough? Matavz (5-10) PSV – striker – cold as ice, deadly, cant play football at all though, bit like Makaay Mertens (10-15) – PSV – winger – good dribbles skills, bit of a small engine Dost (5) – Heerenveen – striker – bit of a mad man, might be worth the risk, at least he knows how to score Assaidi (5) – Heerenveen – winger – great dribbling skills, playful, not enough body for Aston Villa my guesses, will leave Fer (5-10) – Twente – midfielder – powerhouse Chadli (10) – Twente – winger – I wonder if he will fit in the Premier League, Ruiz failing at Fulham, Chadly has more body, Ruiz is the better footballer, might leave El Ahmadi (3-5) Feyenoord – defensive midfielder/playmaker – never ever scores, bit of a wuss, still a lovely footballer to watch, has alot of skills, might worth his low price, might leave Guidetti (?) – Feyenoord/Manchester City – mad man just like Dost, very energetic Asare (2-3) FC Utrecht – midfielder/allrounder – dont know why he is in this list, I like him somehow, worth a gamble perhaps, decent player Tadic (5-10) Groningen – winger – good crosses,tad slow, some say he already signed at Twente for 8 million, will leave Esteban (5) – AZ – goalkeeper – decent goalie, still very young Elm (5-15) – AZ – midfielder/playmaker – tad slow, perhaps to slow to Premier League standards, his passing and crosses are phenomenal Martens (5) AZ – midfielder/playmaker – getting older and gets more injuries it seems, still a damn good player Pranjic (bosman) – Bayern Munchen – midfielder - I loved this player so much at Heerenveen, he is getting older.. if he fails in the Premier League…. Cant see that happening! Van Wolfswinkel (5-10) – Sporting Portugal – striker – calmer version of Dost, might be overpriced like 10 or even more De Bruyne (on loan) – Chelsea/Racing Genk – midfielder/winger – Good player, tad slow, you might get him on loan from Chelsea. If you have a policy which allows you to take players on loan as well. Ajax almost never does that, for example And the Dutch youth league is as always full with talents but those players should all stay Some of them will make it, some of them wont, but these are the best players in the Dutch league imo. Some players have higher price tags and I dont rate them that highly, thats because I dont think they will leave. Others will be cheaper like Vertonghen, a bargain for such a price, afraid it might be even abit lower or around 10 Thats what a 1 year contracts does apparantly. I understand Aston Villa cant buy them all. Pick out your favorite! Eat that Numan lol Top work Ajax fan. Can't pretend my knowledge of modern Dutch football is all that hot, but with the way the club is going now, scouting players for cheap/reasonable fees will be a big part of our future, it seems. I like what I've seen from Strootman, and I think Sporting Lisbon picked up an absolute bargain in Van Wolfswinkel for under €4 million Euro. :shock: But for every good players like those, there must be plenty of Samaras, Alaves and Postma types to trip over, to get to the good stuff.

Most of the opposition fans I have spoken to don't even mock us anymore. They actually pity us.

Don't particularly rate Cantscoreino -the player of the pundit. But at least he isn't trotting out the 'what do Villa fans expect' mantra. Gary Neville was at that earlier in the season. And even Merse, who previously spoke with a bit of affection and knowledge about the place said similar, and that McLeish was a 'good' manager. :shock: If more media parasites move away from the 'they don't like him because of where he came from' default cop out and actually hold up his contribution to rigourous examination, then good.

They (American clubs) will pay big wages for the right player. But not usually big transfer fees.

I am not tied to any one individual. What I do understand is that at this time we have a manager who is very limited in his capability and that shows in the way the team plays. I would like, a coach who has taken time to look at modern coaching techniques and understands that a team can be better than the sum of its parts. A manager who can identify, coach and motivate a group of players to react to the various phases of a football match without the need for blame and shouting. I want the club to look past the end of its nose and implement a progressive policy of development, scouting and through club management that means that whether U10s or first team, everyone is technically and tactically coached properly with an eye on the mid to long term and ultimately, success. That is what I would like. Martinez and Rogers have a number of those attributes, but I wondered be disappointed if it wasnt them as a long as it was someone of a similar ilk. Before it sounds like I am off in some fantasy land, every FA course I do advocates a similar set up for grass roots football. We hold Clairefontaine and La Masia up as shining lights but any club can do it (Wigan try, Swansea have) if they develop and stick to the plan. The tragedy with us is that we already have so much of that in place, from scouting kids as young as 8/9 (Daniel Sturridge was on our radar when he was as young as that) right through to the Academy. The only weak link in the chain is the most important part of the whole thing, the starting XI. And the constraints they play under with such a duffer of a manager. The Academy has turned out some real gems in recent years, players who are technically competent and comfortable in possession. But what use are such players with McLeish's Alehouse tactics. In defence of RL (and I haven't said that too often recently) I'm pretty certain he made integrating the Academy prospects into the first team as one of the conditions of the job on hiring McLeish. And McLeish -desperate to get away from the circus at St Andrews- would have told RL anything he wanted to hear "Yes Randy, I fully agree the kids are the way to go. We are on the same page, you and I. Now about my salary..." Sullivan's quotes recently indicate that Big Eck was quite used to ceding ground on transfer related matters, hence the signings of Zarate and Benitez. According to Big Eck himself, Zigic wasn't his choice either (but then he would say that, wouldn't he). So it's no huge leap of faith to think he'd pander to the owners requests on other playing issues too. The thing is, if he's doing it under duress players pick up on that. Playing people for the sake of it (even out of position), just hoping to stay in with the boss. Weak management, in other words. Doesn't sound like a recipe for fluidity and organisation - and the results (and performances this season) bear that out. A competent manager would actively want to make the most of players like Bannan, Albrighton, Gardner, Delph and Ireland. He'd relish the opportunity to work with that kind of talent and get the best out of them. As it is, The two gems of the Academy -Albrighton and Bannan- have looked a shadow of the players we know they can be. Continue on this trajectory and don't be surprised if we lose both for nominal fees. Delph was sent out on loan and had made noises about wanting to make the move permanent and Ireland - despite upping his game and looking like our best player- seems to forfeit his place in the starting XI at the drop of the hat. If funds are tight as we're told ad nauseam we can't be so profligate with the talented players we do actually possess. Whatever sweet nothings Big Eck might have whispered in RL's ear about his belief in attacking, attractive football and the importance of utilising youth, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Nothing in his previous indicates such things were ever important to him and -crucially as far as Villa are concerned- nothing in his team selections and set up this year indicates he has done an about turn this late into his career either.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him. Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him. Well it really does buddy, and the facts are pretty clear: - Relegation is 38 games of showing what you are capable of. In other words, luck and unluck evens out. - A cup stroll with home games to Brentford, MK Dons, Villa and West Ham and then Arsenal at Wembley is more or less just lucky draws. A cup is a cup, of course, but it does not say anything about McLeish as a manager. Not at all actually. I do think that's a tad unfair - and I say that as someone who is no fan of McLeish. Yes, he had a favourable draw. But we've had favourable draws in years past and still made a balls of it. I can see why -on the surface- the board opted for McLeish and didn't let his current employers (as was) put them off. Managing Rangers to various titles in the CL and a national side looks impressive. If you ignore the decline he overseen in the former despite their natural advantages up there and the shit managers Scotland have had for the past 25+ years. Bagging any sort of trophy for a 3rd rate outfit like the B-lose looks like the stuff of miracles too -until you see their run to the final and the fortuitous nature of their winner. A board with a wee bit of football knowledge should have been able to see this, of course. But we don't have one of those. A quick skim read of his honours on wiki, a nice letter from Fergie and a few complimentary words from Ginge himself anytime we turned over his B-lose rabble was enough for RL and co.

Graeme Souness and the Wally with the Brolly have also potted a league cup since we last won a trophy. I wouldn't want them managing the club either.