HolteExile

This was being flagged as a definite signing last week in some quarters. Now it is only a trial. Maybe the powers that be are -finally- having doubts about McLeish, and are reluctant to commit to any more permanent deals if there are questions over his future? I'll look for any crumb of comfort at present! Not slating the lads ability - don't know much about him, truth be told. Doesn't seem Hearts were desperate to keep him though. Not a great sign, that.

It's an interesting point. I do wonder whether RL felt an unease in the way we celebrated the demise of our nearest and dearest, and his appointment of the wee ginner (and the payout B-lose received- just enough for them to avoid administration ) was his naive attempt to bridge the divide. Makes about as much sense as any other reason put forward.

to be fair, era for era and level for level Villa have signed some really big players !! Yeah, to me it seems that you're equaling exciting and big players with players from outside of Britain. Merson, Saunderd, McGrath and a few more I'd call big players. But big players from outside of Britain we haven't had that many, that's true. But we got Nilis, and he was both a great and foreign player. But I guess he's the only one. But in terms of excitment the likes of Merson, Saunders and Mcgrath aren't the same as when a team like Newcastle signed Owen and Shearer. I'm not saying you haven't signed players with good reputations, but as far as I can remember you've never been a club that has signed the truely big names of the era. Mcgrath turned out to be an awesome signing for you, but he wasn't one of the stars of world football when you signed him. You've signed plenty of excellent players and done well as a club, but in terms of head turning signings, they've been remarkably thin on the ground for some reason. Other clubs of similar stature do seem to have signed much more eye catching names. Shearer and Owen for example were not only starters, but seen as star players for the national team when Newcaslte bought them. Whilst the likes of Merson were really just good squad players at international level. But as you say, it's more evident with foreign names. I the grand scheme of world football someone like Luc Nilis is a bit of a nobody. Yet a club like Boro signed Juninho and Ravenelli, who at the time were huge names. I couldn't believe it when they signed Juninho and the press coverage was huge. There doesn't seen to be any Shearer, Owen, Lineker, Asprilla, Juninho, Ravinelli, Klinsman, Davids, Gullit or Weah types signings in your history. Basically no really big names from abroad or star players for the England national team. It hasn't done you any harm over the years, but for some reason you've never signed any of the big names of world football. It's the same with Everton. It's a fair point. We had Juninho locked in Ellis's office at VP early in 1999. But either Herbert or John Gregory bottled it at the last minute. We were about 2nd/ 3rd in the league then. Hard to say whether a signing like Juninho would have got us over the line, but it will forever be one of those 'what if? ' moments. Prior to that, we were offered Gary Line-acre in the 1988/89 season (prior to Tottingham signing him) but Ellis told then manger Graham Taylor that if we signed him, we wouldn't be able to sign another player for 18 months. Herbert also reckons he wanted to sign Roberto Carlos in 1995, after seeing him play for Brazil v Sweden in the Umbro Cup at Villa Park. But then he would say that. I think in most cases it's probably fair to say that foreigners would much prefer London over the charms of sunny Birmingham (can't think why). Not that the old Tottingham way of making one sexy signing per summer and throwing him into a horribly unbalanced team is necessarily the way to go either, of course. But against that, we should have punched our weight far more when it comes to the bigger names. It's probably a big part of the reason why we have gone from being seen as unquestionably one of the biggest sides in the land to a parochial, slightly dull outfit, with limited appeal outside of the UK. Albeit we still have a big stadium and some of the other trappings of a big club.

Dean Saunders. I had a feeling Collywobbles would be a disappointment and he was - to put it mildly. Dean had moved for a British transfer record fee little over 12 months previous, and joined for a figure not a million miles off that. He looked sharp on his debut, Leeds away IIRC. His home debut is one of my fondest memories of a Villa fan. To roll the Redscouse over and make it look so easy. There was a little moment during that game - probably when we were 4-1 up- that I looked up at the scoreboard, looked around me at the Trinity, Witton and Holte rocking and felt this wasn't just one good performance or result in isolation, this was the start of something. A new go ahead era. And it was. Closest I've got to recapturing that feeling was when we beat Chelsea 2-0 at Villa Park early into the 2007/08 season.

Ah what you need, is Maher. Adam Maher is a special one. He is a playmaker/midfielder and will cost 10-30 million euro. Quite a big range but thats because he is very young. I have no idea what he wants in his career, stay alittle longer in the Dutch league or leaving soon. Hope and think he will stay if I am honest. You will see him at one of the best clubs in the world soon enough. Will become a Dutch international very soon too. He plays at AZ and is already their mvp. The only thing which isnt good, is.. he doesnt play for Ajax. And I am afraid he never will. More talented than Eriksen, love him just as much as my personal favorite, Van der Vaart. Wouldnt be a Spanish/Dutch/German head coach a nice idea? They know about total football, much much more than me ... Anyway here some interesting players I know: Stekelenburg (10) – AS Roma - goalkeeper – Italian league is shitty nowadays Vorm (5?) – Swansea City – goalkeeper – From Swansea to Villa is a step up still? I know the table standings but… Gomes (?) – Spurs – goalkeeper – how can he become so bad? He was such a terrific goalkeeper at PSV! Might leave? Emanuelson (5-15) – AC Milan – midfielder – perhaps you can get him cheap once he is on the bench there, he is a starting player atm though Strootman (10-15) PSV – midfielder – new Van Bommel Kuyt (bosman/1 year contract? Less than 5 million orso?) – Liverpool – hard worker– Holman and Kuyt is perhaps abit to much, but he did pretty well at Liverpool right? Think he will leave Wijnaldum (5-10) PSV – midfielder – still to playful, does know how to play football though De Jong (10-15) – Twente – striker – Hollands next striker, not as good as Huntelaar/Van Nistelrooij/Kluivert though Narsingh (5) – Heerenveen – winger – decent, your typical Dutch winger, think he will leave Elia (10) Juventus – winger – sitting at the bench there, picking his nose, think he will leave Douglas (10) – Twente – defender – beast Van der Wiel (6-12) - Ajax – right back – will leave, very good at attacking, could be better at defending El Hamdaoui (1-2..) – Ajax – striker – had a fight with De Boer, never plays anymore, was a very good striker! Havent played for quite awhile though.. worth the risk, will leave Alderweireld (10) – Ajax – defender – decent, nothing that special Anita (10-15) – Ajax – defensive midfielder/playmaker – you will laugh with his girly name and being a tiny human, just wait till you see him playing he is good! Sulejmani (5-10) – Ajax – winger – to bad he had so many injuries, he once was the next big thing Enoh (5) – Ajax – defensive midfielder – animal Aissati (bosman) – Ajax – midfielder – such a shame he never made it at Ajax and PSV, he was good for Twente a while ago. As bosman worth the risk, will leave I think Eriksen (15-35) – Ajax – midfielder – you know him, closest to Maher in this list Vertonghen (10-15) – Ajax – defender / playmaker – he will be quite sensational when he will enter the English or Spanish league, will leave I am afraid.. Kalas (?) – Vitesse/Chelsea – defender – decent player, dont know if he is good enough for Chelsea, to young anyway for now Bony (8-15) – Vitesse – striker – egocentric but good, great dibbling, will leave I think Schone (bosman) – NEC – midfielder/playmaker – Schalke and Twente are interested to sign him, dont know if he is able to survive the Premier League, worth the risk, will leave Tyton (5-10) – PSV – goalkeeper – decent, braveheart Ooijer (bosman) – Ajax – defender – just kidding, just want to wake you up with this wall of text! Toivonen (10) – PSV – attacking midfielder – bit annoying and whiny, scores alot, might leave Lens (5) – PSV – winger/striker – decent enough, might leave Babel (5?) Hoffenheim – winger – decent enough? Matavz (5-10) PSV – striker – cold as ice, deadly, cant play football at all though, bit like Makaay Mertens (10-15) – PSV – winger – good dribbles skills, bit of a small engine Dost (5) – Heerenveen – striker – bit of a mad man, might be worth the risk, at least he knows how to score Assaidi (5) – Heerenveen – winger – great dribbling skills, playful, not enough body for Aston Villa my guesses, will leave Fer (5-10) – Twente – midfielder – powerhouse Chadli (10) – Twente – winger – I wonder if he will fit in the Premier League, Ruiz failing at Fulham, Chadly has more body, Ruiz is the better footballer, might leave El Ahmadi (3-5) Feyenoord – defensive midfielder/playmaker – never ever scores, bit of a wuss, still a lovely footballer to watch, has alot of skills, might worth his low price, might leave Guidetti (?) – Feyenoord/Manchester City – mad man just like Dost, very energetic Asare (2-3) FC Utrecht – midfielder/allrounder – dont know why he is in this list, I like him somehow, worth a gamble perhaps, decent player Tadic (5-10) Groningen – winger – good crosses,tad slow, some say he already signed at Twente for 8 million, will leave Esteban (5) – AZ – goalkeeper – decent goalie, still very young Elm (5-15) – AZ – midfielder/playmaker – tad slow, perhaps to slow to Premier League standards, his passing and crosses are phenomenal Martens (5) AZ – midfielder/playmaker – getting older and gets more injuries it seems, still a damn good player Pranjic (bosman) – Bayern Munchen – midfielder - I loved this player so much at Heerenveen, he is getting older.. if he fails in the Premier League…. Cant see that happening! Van Wolfswinkel (5-10) – Sporting Portugal – striker – calmer version of Dost, might be overpriced like 10 or even more De Bruyne (on loan) – Chelsea/Racing Genk – midfielder/winger – Good player, tad slow, you might get him on loan from Chelsea. If you have a policy which allows you to take players on loan as well. Ajax almost never does that, for example And the Dutch youth league is as always full with talents but those players should all stay Some of them will make it, some of them wont, but these are the best players in the Dutch league imo. Some players have higher price tags and I dont rate them that highly, thats because I dont think they will leave. Others will be cheaper like Vertonghen, a bargain for such a price, afraid it might be even abit lower or around 10 Thats what a 1 year contracts does apparantly. I understand Aston Villa cant buy them all. Pick out your favorite! Eat that Numan lol Top work Ajax fan. Can't pretend my knowledge of modern Dutch football is all that hot, but with the way the club is going now, scouting players for cheap/reasonable fees will be a big part of our future, it seems. I like what I've seen from Strootman, and I think Sporting Lisbon picked up an absolute bargain in Van Wolfswinkel for under €4 million Euro. :shock: But for every good players like those, there must be plenty of Samaras, Alaves and Postma types to trip over, to get to the good stuff.

Most of the opposition fans I have spoken to don't even mock us anymore. They actually pity us.

Don't particularly rate Cantscoreino -the player of the pundit. But at least he isn't trotting out the 'what do Villa fans expect' mantra. Gary Neville was at that earlier in the season. And even Merse, who previously spoke with a bit of affection and knowledge about the place said similar, and that McLeish was a 'good' manager. :shock: If more media parasites move away from the 'they don't like him because of where he came from' default cop out and actually hold up his contribution to rigourous examination, then good.

They (American clubs) will pay big wages for the right player. But not usually big transfer fees.

I am not tied to any one individual. What I do understand is that at this time we have a manager who is very limited in his capability and that shows in the way the team plays. I would like, a coach who has taken time to look at modern coaching techniques and understands that a team can be better than the sum of its parts. A manager who can identify, coach and motivate a group of players to react to the various phases of a football match without the need for blame and shouting. I want the club to look past the end of its nose and implement a progressive policy of development, scouting and through club management that means that whether U10s or first team, everyone is technically and tactically coached properly with an eye on the mid to long term and ultimately, success. That is what I would like. Martinez and Rogers have a number of those attributes, but I wondered be disappointed if it wasnt them as a long as it was someone of a similar ilk. Before it sounds like I am off in some fantasy land, every FA course I do advocates a similar set up for grass roots football. We hold Clairefontaine and La Masia up as shining lights but any club can do it (Wigan try, Swansea have) if they develop and stick to the plan. The tragedy with us is that we already have so much of that in place, from scouting kids as young as 8/9 (Daniel Sturridge was on our radar when he was as young as that) right through to the Academy. The only weak link in the chain is the most important part of the whole thing, the starting XI. And the constraints they play under with such a duffer of a manager. The Academy has turned out some real gems in recent years, players who are technically competent and comfortable in possession. But what use are such players with McLeish's Alehouse tactics. In defence of RL (and I haven't said that too often recently) I'm pretty certain he made integrating the Academy prospects into the first team as one of the conditions of the job on hiring McLeish. And McLeish -desperate to get away from the circus at St Andrews- would have told RL anything he wanted to hear "Yes Randy, I fully agree the kids are the way to go. We are on the same page, you and I. Now about my salary..." Sullivan's quotes recently indicate that Big Eck was quite used to ceding ground on transfer related matters, hence the signings of Zarate and Benitez. According to Big Eck himself, Zigic wasn't his choice either (but then he would say that, wouldn't he). So it's no huge leap of faith to think he'd pander to the owners requests on other playing issues too. The thing is, if he's doing it under duress players pick up on that. Playing people for the sake of it (even out of position), just hoping to stay in with the boss. Weak management, in other words. Doesn't sound like a recipe for fluidity and organisation - and the results (and performances this season) bear that out. A competent manager would actively want to make the most of players like Bannan, Albrighton, Gardner, Delph and Ireland. He'd relish the opportunity to work with that kind of talent and get the best out of them. As it is, The two gems of the Academy -Albrighton and Bannan- have looked a shadow of the players we know they can be. Continue on this trajectory and don't be surprised if we lose both for nominal fees. Delph was sent out on loan and had made noises about wanting to make the move permanent and Ireland - despite upping his game and looking like our best player- seems to forfeit his place in the starting XI at the drop of the hat. If funds are tight as we're told ad nauseam we can't be so profligate with the talented players we do actually possess. Whatever sweet nothings Big Eck might have whispered in RL's ear about his belief in attacking, attractive football and the importance of utilising youth, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Nothing in his previous indicates such things were ever important to him and -crucially as far as Villa are concerned- nothing in his team selections and set up this year indicates he has done an about turn this late into his career either.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him. Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him. Well it really does buddy, and the facts are pretty clear: - Relegation is 38 games of showing what you are capable of. In other words, luck and unluck evens out. - A cup stroll with home games to Brentford, MK Dons, Villa and West Ham and then Arsenal at Wembley is more or less just lucky draws. A cup is a cup, of course, but it does not say anything about McLeish as a manager. Not at all actually. I do think that's a tad unfair - and I say that as someone who is no fan of McLeish. Yes, he had a favourable draw. But we've had favourable draws in years past and still made a balls of it. I can see why -on the surface- the board opted for McLeish and didn't let his current employers (as was) put them off. Managing Rangers to various titles in the CL and a national side looks impressive. If you ignore the decline he overseen in the former despite their natural advantages up there and the shit managers Scotland have had for the past 25+ years. Bagging any sort of trophy for a 3rd rate outfit like the B-lose looks like the stuff of miracles too -until you see their run to the final and the fortuitous nature of their winner. A board with a wee bit of football knowledge should have been able to see this, of course. But we don't have one of those. A quick skim read of his honours on wiki, a nice letter from Fergie and a few complimentary words from Ginge himself anytime we turned over his B-lose rabble was enough for RL and co.

Graeme Souness and the Wally with the Brolly have also potted a league cup since we last won a trophy. I wouldn't want them managing the club either.

What in his past record marks him out as a manager who - given time- will oversee a massive upturn in fortunes? Ferguson had an incredible record at Aberdeen and Moyes at decent one at Preston. Also, using Ferguson as an example of giving a struggling manager time is almost always flawed, as it ignores the fact that Fergie took United to 2nd place in his second season in 88. I have a sneaking suspicion that any Villa manager who oversaw that in his second year might be given a bit more time too. Big Eck's stint at Rangers is without question the most successful period of his CV -and even there it's pretty obvious to spot a major decline under him. From 100 goals in a season to finishing 3rd in a two horse race. Impressive. His stint as Scotland manager can be considered a success - of sorts, I suppose. Despite failure to qualify for a major tournament. Some impressive victories and draws against more fancied nations. But 10 men behind the ball, hacking the ball away under pressure and nicking it with a James McFadden wonder strike against the run of play is a perfectly acceptable approach to adopt for a minnow. For a club like Villa, we expect a wee bit more. Not trophies (or even competing for them) anymore, sadly. Sign o' the times. But we do expect to at least have a go and take the game to the opposition, particularly at home. After the initial shock and disappointment of an appointment so unambitious, I think most were willing to give him a chance. Yet going into mid March this year we had won a grand total of three games at VP. Now four. That, primarily, is why he takes the stick he does. Not his past associations. His past associations merely highlight his limitations and demonstrate why he is unlikely to be a success here.

A cheap and nasty Ikea wardrobe would be more use than Heskey in the squad. It would stay upright, for one thing.

That's setting the bar a bit low, isn't it?

That away kit is outstanding. Even if it didn't differ enough from the home colours when we play the kit stealers, it would be fine against most of the other sides in the league (Mn citeh apart). Might be a decent option as a third kit.

Maybe there's more to Makoun being loaned out that meets the eye. Ability wise, there wasn't a lot wrong with him as far as I could see. He was particularly impressive v Man U away and Fulham at home. His form tampered off after that, so maybe he was playing on adrenaline originally. He did miss a big chunk of the season for Lyon prior to signing for us. But even during his 'iffy' phase, he was still capable of playing that defence splitting eye of the needle pass. As witnessed v Wolves at home when he put Ash through and Newcastle at home when Bent was marginally given offside. I had certainly seen enough to think that with a decent pre season he could be a big player for us. But if he was unsettled (and GH's departure wouldn't have helped in that regard) it's not just about ability. That said, it would be nice to see what a more progressive manager might be able to do with a midfield containing any 4/5 from Petrov, Makoun, Ireland, N'Zog, Albrighton, Bannan, Gardner, Clark and Delph. It's not a bottom 5 midfield by any means, even if it does require a bit of tinkering. I would think most mangers outside of the usual suspects and maybe Newcastle would be quite happy to trade their midfield options for ours.

Exactly Risso. I'd have been quite happy to take Foster and Dann off their hands last summer, for example. His previous association with that lot means he would need to be of a decent enough pedigree to bridge the divide. The issue for me was, on that score, he was never good enough in the first place. I don't blame him for taking the job though, and I don't particularly hate him. Many say he was on a hiding to nothing, but as far as I can see it was win/win (for him). Manage to equal (or surpass) B-lose best ever PL Finish of 9th (with a group of far better group of players) and most neutrals would have said he'd done well. Considering we lost Ash and Downing last summer. Fail dismally (which looks more likely at this point) and he'll be sacked with a nice juicy payoff. Having already doubled his salary compared to what the plebs down the road were paying. For a manager whose star was already on the wane, that's not bad going.

Please read the first post in the thread

It's a legitimate concern. I'm not sure they're willing/ able to make a great appointment, sadly. But they'll really need to go some to make one as provocatively bad as last June's effort.

No. And I say that with a heavy heart. Chopping and changing managers so often is never a good sign, but he knew he was on a hiding to nothing when he took the job. There was never going to be a honeymoon period as such (he and the powers that be surely knew that) and he needed to win a substantial amount of the support base over. He's failed to do that with his negative tactics and selections. All self inflicted.

The positive thing about that is those kits don't have that weird Special Olympics logo on. Just about every other Macron kit I've seen has that. And weird, shitty looking collars. Simple, traditional claret shirt with blue sleeves for the home (the template using the non league kit a few pages back was actually quite decent). Experiment with the away kit by all means.

Got a pic. I did put a actual collar on my home kit It's a bit West Ham, isn't it? I know it might be hard to be vastly different to a club who have the same colours and now the same kit manufacturer, but -generally speaking- our kits have generally looked a bit sharper than theirs over the years. Rather than the rounded collars, and all the other OTT detail, I'd like to see us replicating the simple kit a few pages back, from that non league side. Maybe stick with the black socks too for the time being.

You might want to go read Blandy's posts I believe in the Randy thread but we didn't lose the tribunal and no judgement was made either way. From what I remember it was settled out of court. It was settled by a football arbitration panel and if the club thought that they could have got away with not paying they would have done just that. You don't settle out of court if you have no blame, you settle out of court because you know if it goes to court you will have to pay and going to court will cost you more in the long run. That applies to both parties though. Similarly, if O'Neill had thought that it was a slam dunk, he would have refused to settle, unless of course the club offered him more than he would have been awarded. You settle out of court to avoid costs and the risk of it going against you. Exactly. One of the many theories/ fantasies tossed around to justify Magic Martin storming off like a child and taking his ball home with him was that he did so on a point of principle. That he was unhappy with the sale of Milner, the possible sale of Young, interference from Faulkner. And so on and so on. Yet if the job description had changed, if he had to cede authority that was in direct contradiction to the original terms of his contract, he'd have surely wanted his day in court? As per Curbishley. A cash compromise - no matter how sizeable- wouldn't have carried the same weight as the panel finding in his favour and making it clear where they felt the blame lay. As it is, it seems reasonable to conclude that the dispute was one of a remuneration/ notice period nature. He joined us in early August 2006 on a rolling contract and left in early August 2010. He might (and I stress might) have purposely left just after the start of a new period (rather than July) and claimed a full years pay. In those circumstances, RL and co would -quite understandably- be reluctant to pay him anything. Hence arbitration.

Spot on chap. Can't disagree with a word of that.

Yeah. Cart before the horse. That's how these things should work.