danceoftheshamen

After the shocking run of results that have occurred lately i cannot believe so many are still coming out with statements such as "we are 99.99999% safe :shock: 1 good result for QPR (who incidently have already had 2 or 3 with recent wins against Spurs, Liverpool etc) & we are right in it. Todays draw has levelled things out a touch between us & QPR nothing more. Wigan will now surely go shooting past us with just Blackburn & Wolves to play Although hopefully Blackburn will lose to Spurs & beat Wigan leaving us clear of Blackburn & level with Wigan with a game to go & a superior goal difference (assuming we lose to Spurs that is). Bolton now have Spurs (h) West Brom (h) & Stoke (a) & are 3 behind with a much worse GD so effectively they would have to better us by 4 points to overtake us. Their 3 remaining games are not easy actually either .. Really equalling Bolton's result today was at least helpful to a point & that now leaves Blackburn needing 2 wins & a draw from games against Spurs(a) Wigan(h) & Chelsea (a).. 1 defeat from those & we are clear of them so between us, Bolton & QPR for the final spot you would think.

I just posted this on another site in response to an article about Randy taking advantage of us Villa fans & thought it expressed how i feel pretty well so i thought i would post it on here too as it is primairly about Randy & well Villa chairmen. ..I am one of those die hard Villa fans & have been since the late 1970's. What i will say is that Villa fans have suffered a lot more than most.. Yes i know we have comparably had a good time when compared to many clubs with our ever present Premier League record etc BUT.. when you scratch below the surface & look back a bit further the real picture emerges. In 1981 we were League champions. In 1982 we became one of only 4 English teams to lift the European cup..All great hey!? Well yes except that at the end of 1981 our board disgracefully pushed out Ron Saunders the manager who had created our most successful ever team.. Because of this they were hounded out by the fans & sold up to a mr Douglas Ellis!. This is where the problems root back to in reality as we were then run like a corner shop for 25 years..Thats correct the Champions of Europe were run like a corner shop by a chairman who, whilst there is no doubt he loved the club dearly, had little ambition over seeing Villa stay in the Premier League & enjoy the odd League cup success. So the incredible fan base Villa had was slowly tortured with this slow kind of "just existingness"..repeatedly being fed false promises which in reality were never ever going to be actually acheived with Doug Ellis in charge. Time after time Villa got close to being a good team & challenging right at the top..Time after time the limitations of Ellis's ambition stopped them.. He simply would not go the final mile. So after well over 2 decades of this torture he finally, age catching up with him, pressure mounting etc, sold up. Great all us Villa fans thought.. at last the restriction has been lifted & after years of embarrassing under achievement this club could finally push on & take it's rightfull place as one of the countries top 6 clubs & occasionally, in a good year, challenge for the big prizes. Once again our hopes had been lifted which after 25 years of torture i can assure you was like taking 25 kilo's off your shoulders.. At last we could challenge..Martin O'neill came in & we started to improve year on year...Until You know the rest... Our new chairman decided for whatever reason to simply stop investing. O'neill wisely quit..he knew what was coming. Now don't get me wrong i fully understand that the books needed to be improved etc as the wages were way too high.. I believe Randy Lerner et al honestly thought we would acheive a top 4 spot & Champions League & this would cover the additional costs... We did not of course & hence the sudden slashing of wages.. This is my concern however... To go from that to then savagely slashing the wages down so quickly to the point we sold half our squad & ALL of our best players was quite frankly ridiculous... Why do it so quickly? This was obviously going to damage the team..We lost O'neill because of it & STILL we continue to plummet downwards after 2 years of it. Surely the point of safety for wages was not this low? It just doesn't make sense! Yet again the Villa fans have been let down by the chairman. Yet again the promised dawn was false. Yet again dreams & hope had been removed..& How!! In all my years following this once great club i have never witnessed such a demoralising 2 seasons. To go from a team on the up & up to suddenly without warning shred all the good work which had been done was simply soul destroying. Add that onto the 25 year stint under Ellis & you see a set of fans who have been sold short for over 30 years. That is why i say we have suffered more than most.. Because this club should be in the top 6 & occasionally having a "good"year. As it stands we will do well to stay up now. Surely this is worse than supporting a club that isn't expected to do any better than finish in the Premier League? The expectations are different & you kind of know what to expect.. At Villa we have been given false dawn after false dawn after false dawn..that i can tell you is very unpleasent. To do what he has to this club in the way he has is downright disrespectful to such a grand club & it's loyal fan base... & people wonder why Villa fans moan!! We have been taken the mick out of for 30+ seasons now barring 2 or 3 under O'neill's stewardship & even he bolted at the 1st possible sign of trouble on the eve of a new season...That did not help Mr O'Neill it really did not & that was uncalled for.. No wonder you apologised for it after the recent Villa Sunderland game.

Well here we are! Where i feared we would be in a worst case scenario having lost at home (again) for the second time this season to the mighty & injury ravaged Bolton. This last 2 seasons have been absolutely hell for us Villa fans barring the last few games from last season when we got a few results. I am pretty disgusted at Randy right now, & McCleish & the players. Week in week out we have gifted soft goals from set pieces, let leads slip more than i can ever remember due largely to constantly giving away possession like a bunch of schoolkids. We have now broken the record for our worst home record in the history of the club..that is simply disgraceful with the players we have here. I now really do think we will go down..before i was afraid of it now i am resigned to it... We have just gifted the one team below us that we needed to beat 3 points. We have given them a huge confidence boost whilst at the same time destroying that of our young side just in time for a P taking session at the Hawthorns.. the new power house of midlands football! We need now 3 points whereas before tonight we probably needed just 1 & even that isn't certain now. Wigan are 2 behind with Blackburn & Wolves to play Bolton have an easy run in & a game in hand over us & QPR who will most likely get at least 3 points at home to Stoke & most likely a result at either Chelsea or a deflated Man City being also just 2 behind us.. So where do we get our points from exactly? Now confidence will be shattered? Wba (a)? Spurs (H)? Norwich (a)? I just can't see it for me our chance has gone now. What an absolute shambles this club is.. The thing is many of us could see this coming with the constant drain of our players & squad.. All of our creative players being sold off to all the clubs we were supposed to be rivalling? An absolute comedy which has been embarrassing to watch. Utterly shocking & heads must now surely roll.

Not so sure about "officially claiming" as we could still be caught by Bolton, Wigan & QPR but we could definately breath a little easier as it would make it very tough for Blackburn & Bolton then. I make it if we draw with Bolton: Blackburn would need 7 points from 3 Bolton would need 7 from 4 QPR would have to beat Stoke & get a point at either Chelsea or Man City Wigan would be 3 behind So for me we really need to beat Bolton & then i would relax AFTER LOSING 2-0 TONIGHT AGAINST MAN CITY WOLVES ARE OFFICIALLY RELEGATED!!

Hi Steven! My best advice would be get a ticket for the Holte End upper as central as possible for atmosphere (Although with the torrid season we are having it's by no means at it's best at the moment by any means) If you prefer close up action however you may prefer the banter in the lower Witton lane which is right next to the away fans & can be quite noisy too. from both sets of fans. Lower Holte central about midway back is my preferred location as you are right behind a goal, get the atmosphere pretty well & its just nice & close to the action where as the upper Holte can seem quite far away. Pubs?.. well the Adventurer is decent though you may struggle to get in without a match day pass.. maybe give them a ring in the week 1st & explain your situation? Aslo may be well worth contacting the club directly & letting them know you are coming from Aus as they just may be able to do something for you? Worth a shot at least?! Hope this helps & just a shame we are not playing better at the moment for you!

That has really hurt us today QPR scraping a win by their fingernails YET AGAIN. They really are getting the rub at the moment. You would have to say they will beat Stoke at home now & possibly may get something at either Chelsea or Man City due to the timing of those games..City may be deflated & Chelsea may have their eye on the Champs League final & or FA cup final.... So for me we now need 3 more points. so long as we do not lose to Bolton.. If we do we may need another 4 points from the WBA, Spurs & Norwich games as Bolton would be on our tails then too. Wigan have games against Newcastle, Blackburn & Wolves so you have to see 7 or 9 points for them on their current form. Blackburn have Spurs (a) Wigan (h) & Chelsea (a) so hopefully they will not get 6 points from those to overtake us. QPR have Chelsea (a) Stoke (h) & Man City (a) & i can see 4 points there for them & with the luck they are enjoying it could be even more. Bolton have Villa (a) Sunderland (a) Spurs (h) West Brom (h) & Stoke (a).. We simply cannot lose that game & really after QPR's win we have to win it now. as i can see points for Bolton from almost all of their remaining fixtures though mainly mostly draws. So if we lose to Bolton i think we are deep in it. Draw & squeaky bum time will probably be with us right to the last game. If we draw with Bolton that would leave Blackburn needing 2 wins & a draw, QPR needing a point from either Chelsea or Man City, Wigan would be 3 behind effectively 4 with GD although with Wolves(h) to play that will surely be 3 of those. Bolton would be 6 behind effetively 7 with GD with 4 to play In short i think if we beat Draw with Bolton & draw 1 more after that we should be ok. Beat Bolton & we surely would be pretty much safe.

Here I know it's the Daily Star, but we can't but hope. Its that word "CONSIDERING" which concerns me.. How on earth would a newspaper know what somebody is considering? What did Randy tell them? Or have they used it as a kind of disclaimer so when nothing happens they just say " ah but he was only considering it so he must have decided not to"? Sounds like hogwash to me & simply putting 2 & 2 together... Big team struggling with a disenchanted fan base & flirting with relegation = !!!!!! I reckon i should get a job at a red top

Well i don't personally blame Randy i think he has been listening to very poor advice from the hangers on. The business side of the club "appears" to be working well enough with some great incentives & restructuring of all sorts of stuff.. the club website, profile building, merchandising etc etc all appear to have been overhauled & are doing well as is the infastructure such as the stadium, Holte pub, training facilities etc.. Indeed all of this is excellent HOWEVER! The football side of things is shocking.. This of course is surely the most important aspect of all but the thing is Randy clearly has had to listen to others regarding this area & he has been very poorly advised in my opinion. Is this his fault? Well thats a tough one as ultimately he should have selected better advisors but then look at who they are 1. Doug Ellis is a lifelong president of the club & surely has had a major input in an advisory sense..I would even go so far as to say the "forget the football lets get the wages under control & Bulls**t the fanbase that everything is rosy" is Ellis all over!! so is it possible they are friendly & Randy has been listening to the old goose? 2. MON - He did a good job to a point but i think having wads of cash to spend for the 1st time really in his career brought out some naiveity in Martin & he went a bit wild out of desperation to get that top 4 spot. He got found out ultimately so something had to be done i just think it was all done way too quickly & with the wrong managers. 3. Sir Alex - He has clearly endorsed Alex McCleish to Randy at some point as the infamous letter indicates but i worry about his motives. This was surely a case of backing up his old boy rather than trying to help Aston Villa FC.. Indeed why would he? we could have been challenging his Utd side afterall so he kind of killed 2 birds there did he not!! This was clearly proven when he came out just last week & backed him up even though we could well get relegated!! Shocking! 4. Paul Faulkner - Clearly a decent business guy but football? Well i wouldnt listen to him for advice on anything football would you?... Thing is did Randy :shock: Thing is i think he gets lots of stick but i don't think he is that involved with the football side is he? 5. Current & Former players & coaches such as KM, Sid, Tony Morley, Dennis Mortimer etc.. Whilst i love them all i think they lack the necessary guile & knowledge of a Terry Venables or Ron Atkinson.. We need a football guru at the club for me & Randy needs to find some new advisors! I don't blame Randy..I blame the accountants & poor advice which in reality he was reliant on in a football sense.. This is what has let him down & his problems Stateside havn't helped either as maybe he has taken his eye off the ball..Literally!

Hmm surely there would be a clause regarding relegation? Especially given our current pathetic predicament?

I tend to agree on Blackburn but if QPR beat Spurs on Saturday their tails will be right up & they will be a threat... We just HAVE to win one of the next 2 to negate that eventuality & pray the local derby thing motivates Spurs to a win.

Well the importance of those results last Saturday is now very clear after that Wigan win at Arsenal.. To be fair i fully expected them to go screaming past us over the next couple of weeks so nothings really changed there. I just hope & pray Spurs pull it out of the bag against QPR next week..That would be enormous for us though i fear QPR will do them over as they did Liverpool & Swansea although be it with a few lorry loads of luck. I actually think our best chance of a win this season now is against Sunderland on Saturday. I know it is MON's return & all that but they are on a poor run & that can be tough to halt despite MON's clear disliking of this football club & it's fans & the motivation & satisfaction that would give him to turn us over here. IF we somehow got a lucky win in that one & QPR lost to Spurs that would leave us in a much healthier position with Blackburn needing to win all 4 of their remaining games & QPR being 7 points behind with 3 to play including Chelsea & Man City Away so they would have to win all 3 of those too! Massive game for us on Saturday it really is .. Lose & that puts massive pressure on the Bolton game. As it stands we need 9 points to be guaranteed safety although that will diminish accordingly directly linked to what QPR get.. If they lose against Spurs we need 6 etc.

Game was over after 5 minutes when the corrupt official gave them the helping hand the really didn't need. Ashley Young has lost all my respect he is just a cheat & to do that against your old clubs kids shows a distinct lack of class & a huge lack of repect for this club & it's annually "sold short" fans. Another day evidencing the corruption in the FA..Thats 9 points Utd have been gifted in 4 games. Thing is it's very easy to say "oh we would have lost anyway...as would QPR... as would Fulham... well sorry but that is nonsense. These decisions change games & the 1st goal scored is usually the most important especially comig so early.. This game was stolen from us after 5 minutes.

This official should be sacked on the spot.. It is absolutely disgusting that in a game which could decide who are the Champions & which could also potentially cost Villa Millions if they were relegated as a result he gives what i have to say is possibly the most pathetic penalty decision i have ever seen. Utterly disgusting & it is now long overdue that something was done about this ridiculous bias towrds Man Utd. No flipping wonder they win all the time. That decision has ruined the game for me AFTER 5 MINUTES of watching i have already turned it off as it is absolutely clear as day we will be losing & i simply cannot bear to watch anymore of this disgraceful match fixing going on. That is now 3 games out of 4 that Utd have won due to corrupt officialling. & yes i am now labelling it corrupt because you don't get such a blatant bias for any other reason. The game is rigged it is clear as day. Why oh why can't we have each manager given 2 yellow markers which they can throw onto the pitch if they wish to challenge a decision like this? As in they do in American football? Oh hang on ..I get it.. It's because then they wouldn't be able to rig the games anymore!! :evil: That has now ruined the game completely as we were up against it anyway never mind "favours" from the FA.

We badly need some results to go for us this weekend.. On Saturday I will be looking for a West Brom win against QPR as that would be huge for us as would a Swansea win at home to Blackburn.. Hopefully Arsenal will beat Wigan on the Monday night though you never know on their current form.. Bolton don't play as their game against Spurs has been rearranged.. I genuinely cannot see us getting anything at all from the Man Utd game of course but it is in effect our game in hand voided.. Massive bonus if we got a point...if not just don't get hammered.

""So we need a 1 win and hope they don't beat us on goal difference or to get 1 win and 1 draw and be safe?"" Thats how i see it but it is indeed still very risky as it would only take 1 bonus result for each of those 3 teams & we would be struggling. I feel we will get a draw it's the win i'm worried about due to the inexperience in the side at present. We get into good positions but never hold onto it which is our biggest flaw for me. We badly need some injuries to clear up too!

Just had a good look at the fixtures & i can see Wigan getting at least 7 more points with Arsenal (a) L Fulham (a) L Newcastle (h) D Blackburn (a) W Wolves (h) W Although on current form i wouldn't put it past them doing Fulham or Newcastle either. That would leave them with 38 points QPR i can see getting at least 7 more with WBA (a) D Spurs (h) W Chelsea (a) L Stoke (H) W Man City (a) L Leaving them also with 38 points Bolton have easier fixtures & i see around 9 points for them Swansea (h) W Villa (a) D Sunderland (a) L Spurs (h) D WBA (h) W Stoke (a) D Leaving them on 38 points too! Blackburn i see with maybe 4 points Swansea (a) D Norwich (h) W Spurs (a) L Wigan (H) L Chelsea (a) L puts them on 33 points & in trouble Wolves surely are down So for me we need 4 points but thats cutting it very fine indeed possibly just 3 with our goal difference but that is way too risky.

Well one thing is for sure & that is Wigan are by far & away the best of the teams in the bottom half of the table right now & are capable of beating any team they play from now on in so i can easily see them overhauling us. They won at Anfield & should have won at Chelsea apart from dodgy decisions & have just beaten Man utd so i can see them going past us very soon. As for QPR well they seem to be getting everything at the moment including all the luck going & all the decisions too so it appears they are perhaps the preferred choice to stay up with the FA (Not surprising as they are London based & have loads of cash) so i think they will get plenty more results & points too despite their tough fixtures. That leaves Bolton who we of course have to play (BIG game or what) & of course out of everybody they have the easiest fixtures so for me it could be us or them for the final relegation spot. That is hoping Blackburn join Wolves of course & even that isn't certain though it is clear Wolves have gone.. Worrying times & i just hope we get a bit of QPR's luck & meet a team or 2 who are "on the beach" like Swansea were tonight.

Would have to be Heskey.. Easily.. I remember thinking at the time OMG! What on Earth have we signed him for he's shocking!.. Then i kind of adjusted to it especially when he scored the winner at Pompey on his debut but from that point onwards it was frustration upon frustration.. I have never known such a poor finisher as that guy.. Only we could sign a striker who had repeatedly proven he couldn't finish. He was all about pace & power which was useful i guess but we got him minus the pace bit. Bizarre signing..I think the fact he is still here speaks volumes as any other half decent player we had has long since been sold off.

Having seen the decimated starting 11 fielded against Chelsea the other day it got me thinking.. Obviously we have lost Bent & Petrov for the season & most likely Dunne but is there any news on the rest? Clark, Cuellar & Hutton for example? As it stands, the recovery...or not, of as many senior players as possible could have a direct bearing on whether or not we survive this season &, with the exception of Liverpool (a), the very tough but also winnable game against Stoke (h), & technically our game in hand being used up with the Man U (a) fixture, we then have a run in from 21st April starting with Sunderland (h) when we could get a few results.. So ... When are these players due back anyone know? & who is actually out through injury apart from the 3 long termers above?

I guess one thing in our favour is that we have a game in hand over the bottom 3 sides...& after tonights Blackburn Man U game over 4 of the 5 sides below us. That basically nullifies the certain loss at Man Utd & in effect leaves us with a run in of Liverpool Stoke Man Utd (Nullified by game in hand) Sunderland Bolton West Brom Spurs Norwich That is actually not that bad when compared to the sides below us BUT we need some players back fit & quickly!! If we can get some back in time for the Stoke game & especially for the run of games from Sunderland onwards which is on the 21st of april we could be ok as i see some games there against sides who will have little to play for maybe with the exception of Bolton (relegation rivals), WBA (the derby factor) & Spurs (chasing champs league). Thats about as positive as i can see it at the moment though with the starting line up from Saturday? So what is the injury situation? Will anyone be back within the next 3 weeks?

Ok i take that..Maybe he is a shining light at the moment though this has most certainly not always been the case has it? & it all has contributed to our current predicament over the course of the season. But i do like Stevie Ireland & yes he is the one player we have fit who could actually make the difference i guess.

As i feared we got "revenged" by Chelsea.. Sad how we actually lost the game twice mind you :? This is all as i feared it would be.. those sides below us just had to find a bit of form at some point whilst we just seem to go from disaster to disaster.. Now we have lost our captain too. I can honestly not remember such a horrid 2 season spell as a Villa fan in over 35 years of supporting them. It really has been soul destroying watching the slow death being played out before us & being able to do nothing about it as the clowns in charge make shocking decision after shocking decision. So we enter the last phase.. All we can do is try our damndest to support the players to the 2 wins & couple of draws we need.. It can still be done but i do worry for us.. My 35 years of experience has me feeling this could be a relegation... It just feels all wrong 1. We have injuries or illness, many to the spine of our team Dunne, Petrov & Bent, These are big players for us & all are out for the season. 2. We have apparanlty disinterested players Nzog, Gabby, Warnock, Heskey, Ireland 3. We have other injuries with Clark & Hutton etc 4. We have vastly inexperienced players in most of the rest. 5. We have a manager who just seems to bring the worst out of our players & fans alilke. 6. We have an owner who has gone awol along with his sidekick Krulak.. Weird this as i thought military personnel had a "when the going gets tough" attitude not a "bury your head in the sand" one! It has now become clear why in Krulak's case..They clearly knew this was coming! Funny i never had Americans down as cowards. We have some really critical games now obviously.. We can beat Bolton, Norwich & West Brom although all 3 will be equally loseable.. We can get draws aginst Stoke & Sunderland though we clearly have got nowhere near "enough" to get anything from the Liverpool, Man U or Spurs games in my opinion.. they are just too strong for our currently avaliable squad. I guess the only crumbs of comfort are that we have played a couple of those "unwinnable" games & now have just 2 or 3 if you include Spurs left. then we have games against a few sides with little to play for in Sunderland, Norwich & WBA although the Baggies game will clearly be tough being a local derby etc. That leaves Bolton.. Talk about a must win game! We as fans can indeed do our bit.. We have a choice.. We can either meekly accept the inevitable or we can go generate some passion at Villa Park which may, just may infect the players. My fear is that passion may just have been quelled by the dull sterile football we have had to endure this season.

Well i am still worried i really am.. It was plain to see that we would struggle to get many points from the run of fixtures which are just starting.. We are sadly back as no hopers against the top 4 (apart from the odd result against Chelsea although i fear they will wreak revenge at ours next week)..This i thought we had moved on from, or were at least in the process of doing so... But no. We are fodder & nothing more for the top 7 or 8 sides as it stands as was clearly proven today against Arsenal. I have to say i have remained concerned despite the "apparant" poor form of those teams below us unlike many posters on here who casually seem to think we are home & dry... I disagree. Wigan are playing well & have just won at Anfield. Bolton will now want to stay up for Muamba & will give 110% from now on in..again as proven today with their win. We also have yet to play them so for me that is the season defining game now. QPR.. Well i do think they may struggle but if they get as much luck as they did against Liverpool the other night then they also could pick up points. Wolves... I think they are probably doomed. Blackburn have by far the easiest run in of all of us & can easily get enough points to overtake us. So yes i am very worried indeed especially after the pathetic effort against Arsenal today & the state of our horrendous run in & all of this with injuries & lack of form affecting a lot of our "best" players.

I think my main concern is that whilst we "appear" to be slightly better than the teams below us this was surely when we had the likes of Dunne, Bent, Keane & a fit Agbonlahor firing & before Warnock, who started the season well i thought, got cockitupitis. So are we still slightly better minus Keane, Bent, Dunne? Or should i say our best goalscorer, one of our most solid defenders & the refreshing presence of Keane whilst he was here? I seriously doubt it & don't forget most of those below us strengthened considerably in the Jan window too so their new signings may yet start to click. meaning an upturn in form! Just at the time that we lose some of our best players...Great :shock:

Well i would have said Lerner by a country mile a couple of seasons back but what the heck happened? I know we had a high wage bill etc but the cataclysmic collapse that has happened since those "heady" days (well a kind of heady) under Mr O'neill has been utterly staggering. I have never quite understood the rapid nature of our decline? I mean why wasn't this done more gradually? It was literally sell everyone worth having asap & replace with poor cheap alternatives? :? I Don't get it! Did randy sit down one day & go OMG! I didn't realise we were spending that much? Something just doesn't add up for me. As for who well as it stands i really don't know. Don't get me wrong i would never ever say Ellis as that guy gave me 25 years of frustration but seldom during that 25 years can i remember feeling as let down as i do today after what happened from the day MON departed. So my answer has to be ...neither