Panto_Villan

Good signing imo, structured well for us: If he's unbelievably good, Man United will recall him and we lose him. Unlikely, he's not going to be so good that they'll want him instead of all the attacking players they've splurged on in the last year. If he's decent enough we want to keep him, we've got an option to buy and we'll buy him. If he's a crock of shite, we won't buy him and we'll just send him back to United instead. Don't really see where we can lose out there. Also, I don't really care he was interested in other clubs because in the end he signed for us.

We have played Stoke, Newcastle and Hull - two of the games at home. These three teams scored 45, 43 and 38 goals last season. Let's wait until we have played some proper teams over time before we start celebrating our acquisitions? Why? People are going to leap on him as soon as he makes a mistake, so we may as well enjoy the good times while they last.

The trouble with asking for "proven" players is you're generally asking for players of a standard where their club don't want to sell them and they don't want to come here. Cleverly is no Juan Mata, but that doesn't make him unproven.

Be massively ironic if he carries on playing like this and a bigger club comes in for him in January

This is essentially it, and it wasn't ever intended for the public. There's far more important events going on right now, it's a bit of a non-story. It's not a non-story imo, and if I'm brutally honest I don't think it reflects particularly well on you if you think it is. They shouldn't be making those comments (and he seems to have made a lot of them) irrespective of whether he actually believes them or not.

I love Ron.

I've always really liked Vlaar both as a player and a person (from what I've seen of him rather than direct personal experience) and I was gutted when he missed that penalty. I really hope we keep hold of him, but I wouldn't begrudge him moving on if an offer came in for him...although I think we'd miss him a lot.

Surely the current situation is an improvement on us not being for sale? Even if the news isn't as good as it could be, it's still good news.

No, there'd be a charge of failing to manage a football team well, and he'd be guilty of it. But, bizarrely, the prosecution would also be attempting to have him charged with several dozen utterly inconsequential misdemeanours...and in doing so, only making it more likely the entire case would be thrown out. (To stretch the analogy to breaking point).

I assure you nobody is 'desperate' to criticise Lambert. There is more than enough evidence to underpin the criticism he gets. There's no "evidence" that setting out to attack Man City at home would have ended in anything other than an absolute mauling. Other teams have endured worse results than we did at the Etihad when they did so and I'm sure everyone criticising him for being defensive would have done so even more if we'd lost 7-0 or 8-0. So why not just stick to criticising him for his recent run of terrible results? Why does every little thing have to be criticised, even when it isn't worthy of criticism? I don't even want Lambert here any more. He had his chance this year and he's failed. I just find it hilarious that there's "plenty" of things to criticise him about, yet some posters will still scrabble around in the dirt for the tiniest little stick to beat him with.

I don't think there was any shame in last night's results and those criticising Lambert for his tactics in that game just come across as desperate to criticise, frankly. I really don't get why some posters have to be so over the top all the time. The last few months have been a disaster in terms of our results, so why undermine your credibility by complaining Lambert didn't go out and attack against the best team in the league at home? All it does it generate sympathy for the person you're trying to discredit (who has been doing a more than ample job of discrediting himself lately anyway).

The last 65 minutes would beg to differ

Noooo

Bacuna finally gets on the pitch after waiting for 20 minutes!

Yeah, decent half that was.

Super. Season's done, let's move on.

I've moved from being pro-Lambert to anti-Lambert, but I still find the hyperbole people engage in pretty funny. As others have pointed out, a lot of criticisms are mutually exclusive....maybe either would be valid, but not both.

Given it appears almost impossible we'll beat last season's points total, I'd also like Lambert to leave in the summer (in a nice orderly transition). I was hoping for more this season, particularly after our strong start. He's done okay for us if he keeps us up two seasons in a row though, so I won't wish him ill or anything...but the points total doesn't lie.

I think we'll be safe, even if the league table is mighty uncomfortable at the moment. I'm happy with the point today (in terms of the relegation fight, at least).

I'd say this does reflect badly on Lambert. He's worked with these two for a long time. It doesn't make him the prime villain of the piece but some of the shite rubs off on him too. I'm disappointed...but I hoping it leads to a dramatic improvement in our form.

The end of the season can't come fast enough.

I can certainly attest to this season being a bit less nerve-wracking than last. Even when we're on a bad run of form I've thought "I hope this doesn't continue much longer" rather than "I wonder how well this squad will do in the Championship?"

Do you think those fans would be happy with finishing 15th and then 14th? I seem to remember Stoke fans getting sick of being mid-table under Pulis and getting rid of him because they couldn't see him taking the club any further, and have fallen back as a result of it. I wonder if there's just an element of everyone wanting to be in the interesting league positions, not in the bottom half of the table....irrespective of when their club last won a title. I doubt Swansea fans say "we're not doing so well this season, but it's OK because we're a small club". Likewise, being a historically big club hasn't helped Leeds much and I wonder how big a club their supporters see themselves as?

Briny_ear, I find your post interesting because your viewpoint is fundamentally different to mine. In the hypothetical situation above I'd struggle to condemn the new owner / manager too much because they'd definitely made things better than when they arrived, just not by that much. Sure, they hadn't delivered us the world but at the same time all improvement is improvement, right? You're of course right that any manager and the fans would want higher than 14th / 15th after two years, but I'm interested to understand why you feel that Villa would deserve it? Every other club is trying to do the same thing, right? Don't their supporters also feel that their club deserves to be top half?

This is a hypothetical question, and if possible it'd be nice to have the discussion without mentioning how good a job Lambert or Lerner are currently doing as it is a genuine question rather than a lecture from my soapbox. There's echoes of their situation in the example given below, but everyone has such entrenched views on both of them that there's no point asking this question in those threads. So let's pretend for a moment that we finish this season in 16th and Lerner sells up to A. Owner, who fires Lambert and brings in A. Manager to replace him. After two years of their reign. if we finish the next seasons in 15th, then 14th, how do you feel about Owner and Manager? Assume the football is better than we've played this season, but only marginally so. As a fan, are you happy that they've improved the team, or are you just depressed that Villa's not in or around the European places? In other words, are the manager / owner being judged on their objective achievements or are they being judged against the previous history of the club? Or even just the fact that we've not got a chance of winning anything? That we're just an also-ran as far as the Premiership goes?