Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Jon]

 

 

 

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the ability of people to gain effective redress for lies and smears printed about them, or the extreme lack of balance and fairness in the papers, or the way they are used as a battering ram to promote the interests of a tiny minority.

 

 

newspapers that invent and distort stories to fit their editorial stance, whether it’s left-wing or right-wing should trouble us all.

 

of course reading this thread one would draw the conclusion that it's only when they upset the left that anyone seems to care ...

au contraire

 

You may feel that way Tony, remind me again who posted Socialist Worker headlines? Who mentioned the Daily Mirror previously etc?

 

The media in general is very right wing biased especially amongst the more popular newspapers. We have seen to what depths they will sink with things like the Sun (Hillsborough for example), NOTW, The Mail this week etc. That is not to say the Mirror etc are above any sort of criticism, nor should they be. But as many are pointing out and you are conveniently missing is that political influence from elements such as Murdoch, the mail proprietors etc will no doubt cause a reaction especially from those that do not subscribe to that (IMO) wrong way of thinking.

 

 

I would say right wing biased, but not very right wing biased? I guess it depends on what you define as right wing, but very right wing is the BNP to me. I don’t think that any of the major newspapers support this. 

 

At the heart of it is that most papers support the editorial direction of their owners, and press barons tend to be that way inclined? But I would say that Britain as a country tends to lean more to the right than the left, even if its the centre right?

 

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

[drat01]

 

bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think Gove "backed" the Heil before the memorial service story broke. But Gove is connected to the Heil by virtue of his wife writing for them, so I'd expect nothing less from that toad.

 

that was what i'd thought , but it's misleading in Drat's post as it specifically links it to the memorial service invasion  .. not that the majority of people reading it in this forum will care , but it is misleading none the less

 

good to see we've moved on from sins of the father to sins of the wife though   ...

 

Tony don't make things up please, it does little / nothing to add to the thread. I did NOT link Gove to the memorial / funeral thing at all - I added to the post a comment re Gove giving the Mail his backing. As others have stated it's not difficult to see why but on a bigger side of things does seem to go against others in his party so adds more to the whole shit storm that has broken

[tonyh29]

bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think Gove "backed" the Heil before the memorial service story broke. But Gove is connected to the Heil by virtue of his wife writing for them, so I'd expect nothing less from that toad.

 

that was what i'd thought , but it's misleading in Drat's post as it specifically links it to the memorial service invasion  .. not that the majority of people reading it in this forum will care , but it is misleading none the less

 

good to see we've moved on from sins of the father to sins of the wife though   ...

 

tonyh29, on 15 Jan 2012 - 2:57 PM, said:

And hes still claimed £237,000 from the taxpayer in public duty allowances

(mind you he's in good company there at Thatch and Major hardly need it either )

For a man that won 3 elections and came in as a breath of fresh air he's got to be one of the most despised people in the country something he achieved in a very short time ... I guess due to his illegal war and his wife

How much do you hate the search function now?

 

 

in this instance not at all as my post was a "guess" at why the public hate Blair so much rather than a statement of fact 

[bickster]

Nah Jon that doesn't stack up. Out of the three parties in 2010 only the Lib Dems were remotely left of centre. Labour were definitely right of centre, there wasvery little to choose between them and the Tories. It ended up being a personality contest between Brown and Dave^TM.  And there was only going to be one winner there

[drat01]

Nah Jon that doesn't stack up. Out of the three parties in 2010 only the Lib Dems were remotely left of centre. Labour were definitely right of centre, there wasvery little to choose between them and the Tories. It ended up being a personality contest between Brown and Dave^TM.  And there was only going to be one winner there

I read that in the paper too ...

[PauloBarnesi]

 

 

 

 

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the ability of people to gain effective redress for lies and smears printed about them, or the extreme lack of balance and fairness in the papers, or the way they are used as a battering ram to promote the interests of a tiny minority.

 

 

newspapers that invent and distort stories to fit their editorial stance, whether it’s left-wing or right-wing should trouble us all.

 

of course reading this thread one would draw the conclusion that it's only when they upset the left that anyone seems to care ...

au contraire

 

You may feel that way Tony, remind me again who posted Socialist Worker headlines? Who mentioned the Daily Mirror previously etc?

 

The media in general is very right wing biased especially amongst the more popular newspapers. We have seen to what depths they will sink with things like the Sun (Hillsborough for example), NOTW, The Mail this week etc. That is not to say the Mirror etc are above any sort of criticism, nor should they be. But as many are pointing out and you are conveniently missing is that political influence from elements such as Murdoch, the mail proprietors etc will no doubt cause a reaction especially from those that do not subscribe to that (IMO) wrong way of thinking.

 

 

I would say right wing biased, but not very right wing biased? I guess it depends on what you define as right wing, but very right wing is the BNP to me. I don’t think that any of the major newspapers support this. 

 

At the heart of it is that most papers support the editorial direction of their owners, and press barons tend to be that way inclined? But I would say that Britain as a country tends to lean more to the right than the left, even if its the centre right?

 

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

 

Well I would guess if one takes the last 200 years its generally been right of centre politics that has dominated, but I guess its how you define these things. We haven’t had a left wing government since the 70s...

[PauloBarnesi]

Anyway for those who read PE will know that a power struggle exists between the Daily and the Sunday title, so Dacre is not entirely to blame for this, Geordie Greig I believe must hold some responsibility. 

[tonyh29]

drat01, on 03 Oct 2013 - 1:01 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:bickster, on 03 Oct 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think Gove "backed" the Heil before the memorial service story broke. But Gove is connected to the Heil by virtue of his wife writing for them, so I'd expect nothing less from that toad.

 

that was what i'd thought , but it's misleading in Drat's post as it specifically links it to the memorial service invasion  .. not that the majority of people reading it in this forum will care , but it is misleading none the less

 

good to see we've moved on from sins of the father to sins of the wife though   ...

 

Tony don't make things up please, it does little / nothing to add to the thread. I did NOT link Gove to the memorial / funeral thing at all - I added to the post a comment re Gove giving the Mail his backing. As others have stated it's not difficult to see why but on a bigger side of things does seem to go against others in his party so adds more to the whole shit storm that has broken

 

 

 

You made a post about the Mail attending the "Funeral" of Milliband's uncle

 

you then came back at a later point in time  and added an "Edit" underneath that post  that says

Edit: Oh and it seems that Gove has given the Mail his backing !!

 

 

 

so I've made nothing up .. YOU wrote it  ... I asked you in what context as I was surprised anyone would back their actions here  and wanted to see it for myself  , ( links are handy )

 

instead of saying , No I meant he backed them before this and in an un-related way  , you've accused me of making things up  .. you'd do well working for the Daily Mail you know

 

 

So as I said , your post is mis-leading  .. i'm sure anyone can see that , and also that I asked a polite question in my reply

[Jon]

Nah Jon that doesn't stack up. Out of the three parties in 2010 only the Lib Dems were remotely left of centre. Labour were definitely right of centre, there wasvery little to choose between them and the Tories. It ended up being a personality contest between Brown and Dave^TM.  And there was only going to be one winner there

Well, I was prerpared for this Bicks. The goalposts have certianly shifted since Maggy, with a part-wide drift (lurch) to the political right. I ceretainly don't think you can judge parti8es on their manifestoes, since they largely ignmore thewm once in office anyway. You can see by their deeds how far right this guvmint is compared to the previous Labout administrations.

 

and whay are you only looking at the last GE?

 

If you take the broadly accepted political point that Labour + Lib dems have historically been centre left (to varying degrees) and that Tories have been right/centre right (throw in thr small amount of votes too for other right wing parties like UKIP or BNP) then for the past however many decades, the left and centre left consistently get more votes than the right/centre right.

 

I would pick issue with you as to how close Labour and the tories are. IMO, judging by the actions of this guvmint and the previous Labour ones, they are quite a bit apart.

 

They are nowhere near as left as some would like, but you would struggle to describe them as right wing.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Jon

[peterms]

This latest intrusion by the Mail is astonishing.  Sneaking into a private service, holding the hand of one of the mourners and pretending to commiserate - it's like a parody of the sort of thing the Leveson Inquiry heard about at great length.

 

And only days before the press proposals for a replacement for the PCC are due to be discussed.  Like a man on bail burgling several houses just before the case comes up, and selling the proceeds at a car boot sale outside the crown court, while shouting "F*ck you!" through a megaphone.

 

Together with Dacre fanning the flames over the Ralph Miliband issue, it's hard to come to a conclusion other than that Dacre wants to torpedo any chance of reconciliation between the gutter press and everyone else.  It's like he's begging for there to be a more robust system of press oversight and redress than they might have got away with.  Even Cameron will be hard pressed to push a soft line.

 

But why?

[drat01]

Tony please stop now you are causing problems again and making yourself look a fool In relation to links - that is one thing that the app cannot do (cut and paste - note to all I users). So if you now please accept that you misread the post, the Edit bit was not linked to the previous comment re the memorial / funeral thing and as has been explained by others Gove giving his support for the Mail is something that he (and the Tory party) must examine, we can all move on.

 

Anyway, ignoring this deflection, it seems that this whole story just wont go away and the impact is one that could have an impact on various things so it seems. You wonder if Dave and co are now hoping for another major story to emerge to move the emphasis away from Milliband

[tonyh29]

Nah Jon that doesn't stack up. Out of the three parties in 2010 only the Lib Dems were remotely left of centre. Labour were definitely right of centre, there wasvery little to choose between them and the Tories. It ended up being a personality contest between Brown and Dave^TM.  And there was only going to be one winner there

 

Interesting you say that because I was thinking earlier today if 2015 is going to come down to this as well  ...

 

Ed and his spin doctors appear to be trying to make it all about "Me , Me , Me " and are working on his public image , personal attacks on Posh boys etc

 

Policy wise , the Tories didn't really announce any this week  , though it is a bit early for that possibly ... I'm just thinking do both sides think they can wipe the floor with the other in the TV debates

 

I know people don't vote on the leaders per se , but a lot of floating and undecided voters possible will be swayed ,

[Jon]

 

 

 

 

 

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the ability of people to gain effective redress for lies and smears printed about them, or the extreme lack of balance and fairness in the papers, or the way they are used as a battering ram to promote the interests of a tiny minority.

 

 

newspapers that invent and distort stories to fit their editorial stance, whether it’s left-wing or right-wing should trouble us all.

 

of course reading this thread one would draw the conclusion that it's only when they upset the left that anyone seems to care ...

au contraire

 

You may feel that way Tony, remind me again who posted Socialist Worker headlines? Who mentioned the Daily Mirror previously etc?

 

The media in general is very right wing biased especially amongst the more popular newspapers. We have seen to what depths they will sink with things like the Sun (Hillsborough for example), NOTW, The Mail this week etc. That is not to say the Mirror etc are above any sort of criticism, nor should they be. But as many are pointing out and you are conveniently missing is that political influence from elements such as Murdoch, the mail proprietors etc will no doubt cause a reaction especially from those that do not subscribe to that (IMO) wrong way of thinking.

 

 

I would say right wing biased, but not very right wing biased? I guess it depends on what you define as right wing, but very right wing is the BNP to me. I don’t think that any of the major newspapers support this. 

 

At the heart of it is that most papers support the editorial direction of their owners, and press barons tend to be that way inclined? But I would say that Britain as a country tends to lean more to the right than the left, even if its the centre right?

 

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

 

Well I would guess if one takes the last 200 years its generally been right of centre politics that has dominated, but I guess its how you define these things. We haven’t had a left wing government since the 70s...

 

I'd rather go back 100 or so years, and then you have a rather different picture. The fact that the right has won so many GE's is as much down to the fractured nature of the left wing vote. As I say - go and look at the results of GE's for the last 1o0 years, and you will find 'The Left/centre left' consisitently polling better than the right. But Factor in FPTP, and you see where the 'problem' has been.

 

The votes of the people have not been proportion to the seats in westminster, to the advantage of the tories.

[drat01]

It seems that the Mail have now apologised for the intrusion at the "event" for the Uncle.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24379322

Edited October 3, 2013 by drat01

[drat01]

Re Gove and his confirming what many have suspected / known about this odious little toe rag

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24363765

[bickster]

and whay are you only looking at the last GE?

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

[Jon]

 

and whay are you only looking at the last GE?

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

 

highlighted for clarity. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick mate.

[PauloBarnesi]

[url=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the ability of people to gain effective redress for lies and smears printed about them, or the extreme lack of balance and fairness in the papers, or the way they are used as a battering ram to promote the interests of a tiny minority.

 

 

newspapers that invent and distort stories to fit their editorial stance, whether it’s left-wing or right-wing should trouble us all.

 

of course reading this thread one would draw the conclusion that it's only when they upset the left that anyone seems to care ...

au contraire

 

You may feel that way Tony, remind me again who posted Socialist Worker headlines? Who mentioned the Daily Mirror previously etc?

 

The media in general is very right wing biased especially amongst the more popular newspapers. We have seen to what depths they will sink with things like the Sun (Hillsborough for example), NOTW, The Mail this week etc. That is not to say the Mirror etc are above any sort of criticism, nor should they be. But as many are pointing out and you are conveniently missing is that political influence from elements such as Murdoch, the mail proprietors etc will no doubt cause a reaction especially from those that do not subscribe to that (IMO) wrong way of thinking.

 

 

I would say right wing biased, but not very right wing biased? I guess it depends on what you define as right wing, but very right wing is the BNP to me. I don’t think that any of the major newspapers support this. 

 

At the heart of it is that most papers support the editorial direction of their owners, and press barons tend to be that way inclined? But I would say that Britain as a country tends to lean more to the right than the left, even if its the centre right?

 

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

 

Well I would guess if one takes the last 200 years its generally been right of centre politics that has dominated, but I guess its how you define these things. We haven’t had a left wing government since the 70s...

 

I'd rather go back 100 or so years, and then you have a rather different picture. The fact that the right has won so many GE's is as much down to the fractured nature of the left wing vote. As I say - go and look at the results of GE's for the last 1o0 years, and you will find 'The Left/centre left' consisitently polling better than the right. But Factor in FPTP, and you see where the 'problem' has been.

 

The votes of the people have not been proportion to the seats in westminster, to the advantage of the tories.

 

Why do say the Tories? The Liberal party is hardly left wing?

Edited October 3, 2013 by PauloBarnesi

[tonyh29]

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 1:16 PM, said:

This latest intrusion by the Mail is astonishing.  Sneaking into a private service, holding the hand of one of the mourners and pretending to commiserate - it's like a parody of the sort of thing the Leveson Inquiry heard about at great length.

 

 

 

where is this coming from ?

 

I've only seen that they sent a reporter ,uninvited into the service " seeking comments on the controversy over the Daily Mail’s description of my late father as someone who “hated Britain”. "

 

reported anywhere , no mention of hand holding etc

 

[Jon]

[url=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

peterms, on 03 Oct 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the ability of people to gain effective redress for lies and smears printed about them, or the extreme lack of balance and fairness in the papers, or the way they are used as a battering ram to promote the interests of a tiny minority.

 

 

newspapers that invent and distort stories to fit their editorial stance, whether it’s left-wing or right-wing should trouble us all.

 

of course reading this thread one would draw the conclusion that it's only when they upset the left that anyone seems to care ...

au contraire

 

You may feel that way Tony, remind me again who posted Socialist Worker headlines? Who mentioned the Daily Mirror previously etc?

 

The media in general is very right wing biased especially amongst the more popular newspapers. We have seen to what depths they will sink with things like the Sun (Hillsborough for example), NOTW, The Mail this week etc. That is not to say the Mirror etc are above any sort of criticism, nor should they be. But as many are pointing out and you are conveniently missing is that political influence from elements such as Murdoch, the mail proprietors etc will no doubt cause a reaction especially from those that do not subscribe to that (IMO) wrong way of thinking.

 

 

I would say right wing biased, but not very right wing biased? I guess it depends on what you define as right wing, but very right wing is the BNP to me. I don’t think that any of the major newspapers support this. 

 

At the heart of it is that most papers support the editorial direction of their owners, and press barons tend to be that way inclined? But I would say that Britain as a country tends to lean more to the right than the left, even if its the centre right?

 

The left and centre left consistently get more votes at general Elections than the right/centre right (although that does really depend on how you define 'centre right' and 'centre left', and what you think the Lieberal democrats are (or were pre 2010)

 

Well I would guess if one takes the last 200 years its generally been right of centre politics that has dominated, but I guess its how you define these things. We haven’t had a left wing government since the 70s...

 

I'd rather go back 100 or so years, and then you have a rather different picture. The fact that the right has won so many GE's is as much down to the fractured nature of the left wing vote. As I say - go and look at the results of GE's for the last 1o0 years, and you will find 'The Left/centre left' consisitently polling better than the right. But Factor in FPTP, and you see where the 'problem' has been.

 

The votes of the people have not been proportion to the seats in westminster, to the advantage of the tories.

 

Why do say the Tories? The Liberal party is hardly left wing?

I don't understand your point.

 

I'm taking the Libs are historically (for the past 100 years or so anyway) slightly left of centre. Not as far left as the emerging Labour party of the early 1900s, but still.

 

Tories = Right.

 

Always have been, to varying degrees.