One For The Road Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 9 hours ago, villa4europe said: We got a pen vs blues for the same reason, can't remember who took gabby out but his contact on the ball was enough to put the ball about half a metre in front of gabby, if gabby stays up he's getting that ball but the tackle took ball and then the man impeding his ability to reach that ball All day foul in my book Roger Johnson I think. He then proceeded to try and put Miller off whilst he was placing the ball on the spot. Didn't work tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, a m ole said: and theres a difference between a trip and the tackle forcing him to fall over. Well all tripping comes under your #1 reason. (which is 100% fine) Which leaves your #2 reason which im arguing is complete BS. Cleanly tackling someone but them falling over as a result of the tackle and not able to get the ball because its 2 yards infront of them (impeding them). If youre going to be talking about tripping in this reason (which apparently you are) then your whole "two reasons why its given a pen" becomes "one reason why its given a pen" which all fits under #1 reason. Saying those two clips are different from a #2 POV (you ignore any actions of tripping as thats covered in #1) is basically saying if the ball is in slightly infront of them then its a bad tackle and youve impeded him from running onto the ball...but if the ball is behind the player after the tackle (trapping) and youve impeded him from changing directions then its fine. Which im pretty sure isnt in the rules. direction or placement of the ball as result of the tackle isnt in the rules from a quick 5 min google. Edited September 7, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 22 hours ago, a m ole said: exactly what I'm talking about. Interesting that you'd give that as a foul but, in the only real clear cut instance I can remember of one of our players taking the ball, absolutely destroying the man and the ball staying in play (Clark on Schlupp), your comment at the time was: "I want a vine of that tackle followed by the look on Schlupps face. It looked like a bigger boy just took his bike and he couldn't do a thing about it." Suggesting that you didn't think it was a foul - although it's much worse than anything we've discussed on here for the force used (I don't think it's a foul either btw). There's a massive difference between cleaning someone out and then getting the ball to taking man then ball in a really quick instance, where you're going to get the ball anyway (Koscielny on Gabby). For example, this isn't a foul to me but Delph touches the opposition player before winning the ball, knocking him slightly off balance: Shows how much fun referees must have anyway when even we can't agree on what is/is not a foul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6065_Villa Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Most refs have an agenda pre game that influences proceedings to a certain degree. As bad as we were last season I got the impression from the games I watched on tv that the refs tried their best to do us in at any opportunity. Some of the decisions where laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, bobzy said: Interesting that you'd give that as a foul but, in the only real clear cut instance I can remember of one of our players taking the ball, absolutely destroying the man and the ball staying in play (Clark on Schlupp), your comment at the time was: "I want a vine of that tackle followed by the look on Schlupps face. It looked like a bigger boy just took his bike and he couldn't do a thing about it." Suggesting that you didn't think it was a foul - although it's much worse than anything we've discussed on here for the force used (I don't think it's a foul either btw). There's a massive difference between cleaning someone out and then getting the ball to taking man then ball in a really quick instance, where you're going to get the ball anyway (Koscielny on Gabby). For example, this isn't a foul to me but Delph touches the opposition player before winning the ball, knocking him slightly off balance: Shows how much fun referees must have anyway when even we can't agree on what is/is not a foul Bloody hell, that's some digging through posts. Firstly, I don't think my comment does suggest whether I think it was a foul either way. From my recollection, Clark went through the ball and that was what turned Schlupp upside down, he didn't go through Schlupp to get to the ball which is what Koscielny is doing. Funnilly enough I was going to mention a few of the Clark challenges that through my C&B specs I thought were great at the time, but on reflection I can see why the opposition fans were upset. Delph there is shoulder to shoulder with Barkley and knocks the ball out his path. Edited September 8, 2016 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) 23 hours ago, gharperr said: Well all tripping comes under your #1 reason. (which is 100% fine) Which leaves your #2 reason which im arguing is complete BS. Cleanly tackling someone but them falling over as a result of the tackle and not able to get the ball because its 2 yards infront of them (impeding them). If youre going to be talking about tripping in this reason (which apparently you are) then your whole "two reasons why its given a pen" becomes "one reason why its given a pen" which all fits under #1 reason. Saying those two clips are different from a #2 POV (you ignore any actions of tripping as thats covered in #1) is basically saying if the ball is in slightly infront of them then its a bad tackle and youve impeded him from running onto the ball...but if the ball is behind the player after the tackle (trapping) and youve impeded him from changing directions then its fine. Which im pretty sure isnt in the rules. direction or placement of the ball as result of the tackle isnt in the rules from a quick 5 min google. to be honest I can't be bothered to keep trying to explain so this will be the last attempt. I probably didn't do it in the best way in the first place. You keep saying 'clean tackle' but Koscielny on Agbonlahor was very clearly not a clean tackle, so I don't know what you're arguing against really. The whole point is if it's not a clean tackle. Defender gets a touch on the ball, ball is still playable by the attacker after that touch, defender trips attacker (distinct from shoulder to shoulder contact in competition for the ball). In the case of the ball being cleared into touch, the ball isn't playable by the attacker and he ceases to be in possession of the ball, so if he falls over the body of the defender he isn't being tripped, it's just accidental contact between two players. This isn't spelled out in the letter of the law but an explanation of why common sense would interpret the rules in that way. In the tackle on Messi I can't see if he gets his foot in front of the ball, traps it between his foot and Messi's causing Messi to fall, and comes away with it - not a foul - or if his leg comes across preventing Messi getting a touch and tripping him before coming away with it - a foul. Long long long boring story short, that is a foul by Koscielny. I'd love to hear your argument about why it isn't. All this is ignoring the fact that Koscielny actually fouls Agbonlahor before touching the ball. You're actually right that reason 2 is completely unrelated to that particular challenge (as it requires the touch on the ball to be first), but I was extending into the discussion of the 'got the ball' argument being stupid. Edited September 8, 2016 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) yeh i cba. tripping. got it Edited September 9, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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