Mark Halsey and Refereeing

[BOF]

Or a saying that I like.

"The trouble with common sense is that it's not that common".

[One For The Road]

9 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

This seems to be something that gets repeated a lot, but there's no mention of it at all in the laws of the game, nor in guidance to referees. Certainly not the pundit's favourite defence which is the inverse of this, either - "it wasn't a foul, he got the ball first".

That isn't what he said though. Stefan said it is a foul 100% of the time if you take the player first. Which it is. That doesn't mean that it isn't a foul if you get the ball first.  They are two seperate things. You can take touch the ball first with a lunging challenge that proceeds to take the player out. That could/should be given as a foul, however, there is no ambiguity if you take a player down first. Then it is always a foul.

[Davkaus]

I think you either misread my post or don't know what 'inverse' means.  

[BOF]

4 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

That isn't what he said though. Stefan said it is a foul 100% of the time if you take the player first. Which it is. That doesn't mean that it isn't a foul if you get the ball first.  They are two seperate things. You can take touch the ball first with a lunging challenge that proceeds to take the player out. That could/should be given as a foul, however, there is no ambiguity if you take a player down first. Then it is always a foul.

The example I always use for a foul even if you get the ball first.  You can see the minutest connection on the ball and even his own manager afterwards suggested it wasn't a foul because he had 'got the ball'.  Terry's protestations afterwards though Everyone's favourite adulterer at his absolute worst.  The fact he only got a yellow brings it all nicely back on topic  

 

[darrenm]

Against the blues we got a penalty when (forgot his name but crap defender) tackled Ashley Young and got the ball. He was fuming making ball gestures to the ref but the rules don't say anything about the ball, just if it's overly aggressive or not: "careless, reckless or using excessive force" http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx

[ChrisVillan]

Roger Johnson. A **** tit of the highest order. 

[darrenm]

That's the clearing in the woods

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, ChrisVillan said:

Roger Johnson. A **** tit of the highest order. 

if ever was a one season wonder it was him. a whatever happened to player?

[Mantis]

5 hours ago, Zatman said:

if ever was a one season wonder it was him. a whatever happened to player?

Relegated 3 seasons in a row i seem to remember.

Plays for Charlton now.

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Relegated 3 seasons in a row i seem to remember.

Plays for Charlton now.

I think at one stage he got an England call-up or heavily linked with one.

he always came across as a right tosser

[villa4europe]

10 hours ago, BOF said:

The example I always use for a foul even if you get the ball first.  You can see the minutest connection on the ball and even his own manager afterwards suggested it wasn't a foul because he had 'got the ball'.  Terry's protestations afterwards though Everyone's favourite adulterer at his absolute worst.  The fact he only got a yellow brings it all nicely back on topic  

 

Brings back horrible memories, that's an all day red made worse by the yellow card because it means Webb saw it, no interest in booking the player for kicking the ball away or the other cynical foul either, it's not actually that amazing that ITV defend John terry, one for the media thread but that's everything wrong with them, can't possibly criticise the then England captain or England's premier ref, sure we had a stone wall penalty not given that game too

the league cup final and that game was probably where it all started too, if ever we were told that we aren't allowed at the top table...

[a m ole]

11 hours ago, bobzy said:

We'll agree to disagree here - I think a slight amount of contact is pretty much guaranteed when you're tackling someone.  He didn't "wipe Gabby out" and then get the ball; it's about 0.01 of a second between the two contacts.  Personally, I'd be fuming if that was given against us.

Plus a yellow card for it too

it's a penalty all day, two reasons.

1. He trips Agbonlahor in order to make the tackle, not as a result of tackling him.

2. After the contact with the ball, it is still in play and is well within the reaches of Agbonlahor. If he touched it in the same way, but didn't bring Agbonlahor down, Gabby still gets to it. It's impeding the player from getting to the ball. Had Koscielny managed to smash it into touch, I could understand the ambiguity.

[gharperr]

#2 sounds horrible logic. (but i dont know letter of law) ~~its like saying something should be a foul when you get the cleanest tackle ever and the guy falls over anyway. and you blow for a foul because the ball is 1 yard away from you and in play,

opposition falls down all the time in slide tackles and usually isnt given as foul

Edited September 7, 2016 by gharperr

[villa4europe]

We got a pen vs blues for the same reason, can't remember who took gabby out but his contact on the ball was enough to put the ball about half a metre in front of gabby, if gabby stays up he's getting that ball but the tackle took ball and then the man impeding his ability to reach that ball 

All day foul in my book 

[a m ole]

7 hours ago, gharperr said:

#2 sounds horrible logic. (but i dont know letter of law) ~~its like saying something should be a foul when you get the cleanest tackle ever and the guy falls over anyway. and you blow for a foul because the ball is 1 yard away from you and in play,

opposition falls down all the time in slide tackles and usually isnt given as foul

 

that analogy is nothing like I said. did the guy fall over or was he tripped? If he was tripped it's not a 'clean tackle'. A clean tackle would dispossess the opponent, where I was pointing out that Koscielny's touch doesn't dispossess Agbonlahor at all.

If you trip a player up its a foul, irrelevant of absolutely anything else. If you get a touch on the ball and in the mean time impede the opponent from getting to it by tripping him as in this case, it's still a foul.

[a m ole]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

We got a pen vs blues for the same reason, can't remember who took gabby out but his contact on the ball was enough to put the ball about half a metre in front of gabby, if gabby stays up he's getting that ball but the tackle took ball and then the man impeding his ability to reach that ball 

All day foul in my book 

exactly what I'm talking about.

[gharperr]

im curious. would you give this as a foul? seems like hes being directly tripped (or tackle has forced him to fall over) impeding him from changing directions...

Edited September 7, 2016 by gharperr

[darrenm]

I would actually. I'd have to see a bit clearer but it looks like he got the player first which allows him to get the ball.

 

[a m ole]

5 hours ago, gharperr said:

im curious. would you give this as a foul? seems like hes being directly tripped (or tackle has forced him to fall over) impeding him from changing directions...

kinda hard to see from row Z really isn't it?

and theres a difference between a trip and the tackle forcing him to fall over.

you'll also notice the massive difference between the two. The defender traps the ball and comes away with it. Had he touched the ball half a foot further forward than it already was, still in Messi's path, while bringing him down like Koscielny did you could compare the two.

Edited September 7, 2016 by a m ole

[a m ole]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

I would actually. I'd have to see a bit clearer but it looks like he got the player first which allows him to get the ball.

 

exactly, if it's only shoulder to shoulder contact in contest for the ball which we know is within the rules, then play on, if he trips him by contact with the legs then it's a foul.