BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 At present in Britain and in Ireland you must apply to become an organ donor. This requires effort and as a result a lot of people who potentially would be donors never bother becoming one. As a result people die every day who would very easily have been saved. Under the proposed new system, instead of having to apply to be an organ donor, you are on the organ donor list BY DEFAULT and would have to request to be removed from it. This way you still have all the civil liberty you had previously and people who wouldn't have bothered are saved the trouble. Also those who aren't too bothered either way can stay on it if they don't feel strongly enough that they don't want to be removed. Do you think it is a good idea or not? I can't think of a negative really. You still have the option to remove yourself from the list if you so desire. 1 person donating can potentially save 6 other people from dying. In my opinion it's a complete no-brainer. What do you think ? This system is already used very successfully across Europe with Austria and Spain as examples where the system has been most successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I can't think of a negative really. You still have the option to remove yourself from the list if you so desire. 1 person donating can potentially save 6 other people from dying. In my opinion it's a complete no-brainer. What do you think ? Exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I am totally against the idea, what if there is a computer error and you and your family don't want donate organ and you[ve opted out.. but the computer doesn't pick it up... well what happens then? Also it's like the government owns your body... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I am totally against the idea, what if there is a computer error and you and your family don't want donate organ and you[ve opted out.. but the computer doesn't pick it up... well what happens then? Surely exactly the same applies now? You can get a little card to carry around in your wallet to say that you don't want to. Just like you currently carry around a card saying that you do. As BOF says, there is absolutely no reason not to implement this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Organ donation should be mandatory IMO, you should not be able to opt out. When your dead your valuable organs which can save LIVES!!! are either going to be worm food or burnt. What a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 19, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 I can see both sides of the argument here but ultimately my freedom principals get thrown out of the window on a technicality, the person is dead and as such is no longer a member of the human race therefore has no rights. Its much better that someone lives than some random dead person has their non rights violated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 Nick, it's nothing to do with the government. And 'they' don't 'own' your body (to use your crude term) unless you leave yourself on the list which is your choice, in exactly the same way as they 'own' it if you put yourself on the list in the first place. Nothing changes. All it does is save the lazier people the bother of signing up who otherwise would have signed up anyway. And as for computer errors, it's in the details but I'd assume you would get proof that you are not on the list once you've requested being removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 19, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 I am totally against the idea, what if there is a computer error and you and your family don't want donate organ and you[ve opted out.. but the computer doesn't pick it up... well what happens then? Also it's like the government owns your body... you are dead, like you'd give a **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 As m|1dch says, there would obviously be a card saying you're not a donor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people that don't want to give there names to an agency just to get off the list, what if you lose your card.... What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... It's not all black and white you know and I am a Volunteer Donor, when I die obviously, but there are arguements against ml1dch, even if you don't want to see it, just because you agree with it. It's my body, your body and you have the right not to opted into something, simply because it easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people that don't want to give there names to an agency just to get off the list Yeah fight the machine :roll: What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... As said above, They're dead. They are hardly likely to complain. but there are arguments against ml1dch, even if you don't want to see it, just because you agree with it. No valid arguments against it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people that don't want to give there names to an agency just to get off the list Yeah fight the machine :roll: What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... As said above, They're dead. They are hardly likely to complain. but there are arguments against ml1dch, even if you don't want to see it, just because you agree with it. No valid arguments against it IMO So your last will and testament is no longer valid... thats nice, respect for the dead... IMO, your opinion is wrong! Oh and that fight the machine thing is quite funny.... :roll: Looking at some government agencies that have **** up... I'd really rather not add myself to another one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... Not sure the potential for a mixup is a valid enough reason to not do something that would clearly benefit so many people. Think of the amount of people, potentially people you and I know, who would be saved rather than the hypothetical chance for a single person losing a lung whose religion forbids it. Proportionately I think one pales into insignificance tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people that don't want to give there names to an agency just to get off the list, what if you lose your card.... Don't want to give their names? How many people do you know who aren't registered with a doctor? If you lose your card, then your family, your doctor or a database will be in place to make sure nothing untoward happens. What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... Your whole tenuous objection seems to come down to this 'mix-up' idea. Which your completely right about. Maybe you will lose your card, your doctor will be on holiday, the entirety of your patient records are erased and your whole family goes mad, all at the same time. But to be fair, the same thing could happen under the current system and there might be 'a mix up' It's my body, your body and you have the right not to opted into something, simply because it easier! You're very welcome to your opinion Nick. It's just that I think you'll find that the huge majority disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about people who's religion or beliefs forbid it, or even somebody that wants to be buried/cremated whole and there is a mix up... Not sure the potential for a mixup is a valid enough reason to not do something that would clearly benefit so many people. Think of the amount of people, potentially people you and I know, who would be saved rather than the hypothetical chance for a single person losing a lung whose religion forbids it. Proportionately I think one pales into insignificance tbh. Not really, I think people should NOT be opted into a scheme, YOU should be have the right to opt in, NOT opt out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 So your last will and testament is no longer valid... thats nice, respect for the dead... The last will and testament which could quite clearly state (if you so wished) "I do not wish for any part of my body to be donated after my death"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 So your last will and testament is no longer valid... thats nice, respect for the dead... The last will and testament which could quite clearly state (if you so wished) "I do not wish for any part of my body to be donated after my death"? Any potential for a mix-up there Nick? Yes if you HAVEN'T opted out! In the spirit of keeping this very interesting debate running on course, some non-essential bits have been snipped- BOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The only thing I dont like, is that from a social perspective you dont really have a choice - you would look like a right clearing in the woods if you asked to be taken off the list for no real reason. Not that I would ask, but the sentiment is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 Not really, I think people should NOT be opted into a scheme, YOU should be have the right to opt in, NOT opt out! Fair enough if you think like that. Personally I think people in general are lazy bastards and will mostly do nothing despite not being averse to donating. So in this case those lazy bastards still save lives and people who feel strongly still have the same rights. As for the potential for mixups, I'm sorry but I'd rather it meant someone living rather than the potential to upset someone who's dead anyway - apart from the remoteness of this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 19, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2007 you would look like a right clearing in the woods if you asked to be taken off the list for no real reason. Why? They'll hardly name and shame you... I'd have no qualms in requesting to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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