markavfc40

I can't help but feel that we are missing an opportunity here, perhaps we should have a VT whip around and buy you a few more. Starting with Beye, Collins and Heskey. Good idea. I'll personally pay for a home, away, 3rd kit, goalkeeper shirt and training top with McLeish on the back for him.

If I recall this right, we had Mellberg who put in a very effective shift at Right Back that season. Not sure Young was needed but was maybe the best choice available when Mellberg moved on. Correct. Mellberg slotted in at right back a position he had played in numerous times previously, and since, for Sweden. Craig Gardner gave decent cover on a couple of occasions during that season. Laursen and Zat Knight were the centre back pairing for most of the season with I believe Laursen having his one and only ever present season for us.

you know he got to an FA Cup final last year as well. also comparing budgets Pulis 11th is better than MON 6th. SPL doesnt count for MON supporters as Eck outclassed him in Scotland on lesser budget Oh right. O'Neill got to a League Cup final with us like Pulis's FA Cup final though I didn't mention it. Pulis 11th with Stoke better than O'Neills 6th I don't agree and what I am sure off is that O'Neills 2 League Cup wins and 4 top 10 Premier League finishes with Leicester on a shoestring budget at a club that at the time had a 21k ground capacity was a remarkable achievement. It certainly completely blows out of the water anything Pulis has done at Stoke.

Looking at Pulis's honours he has a division 3 runners up with Gillingham and a Championship runner up with Stoke. A highest top flight finish of 11th. He has been sacked on numerous occasions from clubs such as Gillingham, Bristol City, Portsmouth and Bournemouth. Am I missing something here on what makes this guy better than a manager who has a Football Conference win, two FA Trophies and a Div 3 Play off win with Wycombe, a Championship play off win, two League cup wins and four top 10 Premier League finishes with Leicester, three Scottish Premier League titles, three Scottish Cup Wins, One Scottish League Cup with Celtic and three top 6 Premier League finishes with Aston Villa. I think Pulis has done a good job at Stoke but I am genuinely bemused as to what makes Pulis the better manager.

He didn't happen to write on a beer mat that he thought we could finish 4th and then later back track and state that due to drink his hand slipped and he meant 5th did he? if so I think I know who your mate is.

Why do people think that 6th (3 times on the trot) was such a terrible failure? It was most certainly not a failure or a huge success. For us though it was most certainly relative success. Something we last achieved in the 1930's. Its not just the three 6th places finishes though it doesn't tell the whole story. It was season on season improvement culminating in our highest points total in a 38 game season. It should also be remembered that despite for two of the three seasons having the 8th highest wage bill and in his last season the 6th highest wage bill we made a great attempt at breaking the top 4. It came at a cost of around a 70 odd mill net spend but when you consider where he found us and the fact after he left we sold three of the players he signed for a combined 62mill making a profit of around 30 mill that was a very good return. He was/is the most successful manager we have had this century and I sadly see that remaining the case for a good few years yet.

Wouldn't go that far. Unless Ellis Short has a couple of hundred million to burn I can't see them challenging for 4th or even the top 6. You think it will take a couple of hundred million? he had a net spend with us at around 70 mill. Since he left we also made a tidy profit of 30 mill+ on three of his signings. I don't see him having too much to spend at Sunderland. I see him getting them top 8 next season and that for them will be relative success. He proved at Leicester when he had relatively **** all to spend he could work on a shoestring budget and he brought what was for them great success with a promotion, 4 top 10 finishes and two league cup wins. Don't forget the wages! We had the highest wages to turnover in the league and its been similar at every club MON has been at. Mainly because English players earn a lot more than foreign imports. That may well be the case. If you want top 6 or even top 4 football you are going to have to pay and that therefore at the moment will require Lerner to increase revenue. Its interesting to note though that the money we paid in wages reaped around the right rewards and for two seasons we over achieved in that respect. In 07/08 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th. In 08/09 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th. In 09/10 - 6th highest wages, finished 6th.

We are where we are though. Trouble is since O'Neill left this club as a whole has spent far too long feeling sorry for itself and blaming those who have left, and can do **** all about what is happening, for our failings. It has long since passed that we dusted ourselves down and came again determined to better what we have done in our recent past. Instead we continue to wallow in self pity and now seem content just to be in the Premiership. Its simply not good enough

Wouldn't go that far. Unless Ellis Short has a couple of hundred million to burn I can't see them challenging for 4th or even the top 6. You think it will take a couple of hundred million? he had a net spend with us at around 70 mill. Since he left we also made a tidy profit of 30 mill+ on three of his signings. I don't see him having too much to spend at Sunderland. I see him getting them top 8 next season and that for them will be relative success. He proved at Leicester when he had relatively **** all to spend he could work on a shoestring budget and he brought what was for them great success with a promotion, 4 top 10 finishes and two league cup wins.

We agree on something. If your club is down and needs galvanising, then there is no better man than O'Neill. Gear up for a shelf life of 3 years, don't let him go too mad with the spending, so there is something left for those who follow, and don't let him anywhere near contract negotiations. After three years, when your club is rejuvenated, move him out and get a football manager in. But if you go the fourth year, woe betide you....... Yes thankfully O'Neill wasn't here for a fourth season. We would be in relegation battles and playing shit football every weekend...oh wait Only the latter, eh? We could all spend days arguing the toss over what we class as good football and never agree. What you class as good football is all down to personal taste I guess. Whilst one fan will appreciate a slow build up passing game another might prefer a team that soaks up a bit of pressure and catches teams on the break with fast attacking and wing play. What cannot be denied is that we had season on season improvement for 4 years, 3 top 6 finishes on the spin for the first time since the 1930's, and in his final season his FOURTH SEASON, we achieved our highest ever points total in a 38 game season and two Wembley appearances. Built on scoring a shit loads of goals in 07/08 and on a solid defence in 09/10. Now I am not claiming that to be glorious success far from it but its the most successful period we have had this century and I suspect that will remain the case for many years to come. It really is a shame that the shit served up over the last 18 months as arguably made O'Neills reign look in relative terms better than it should be. I long for the days when that is no longer the case.

Unfortunately it won't work like that will it. He was given the job 6 months ago on a bumber 3 year contract. Lerner and Faulkner for **** knows what reason thought he was the right man then and will think he is the right man now. What we could do with is a spate of sackings in the Premiership to help plant the seed and make his sacking look more justified. It doesn't help that managers who have been in their jobs sometime, or at least way longer than McLeish, who are struggling in Kean, Coyle, McCarthy haven't and don't appear in iminent danger of being sacked. The media also don't seem to be reporting that McLeish is under pressure. I would be amazed if McLeish goes before the end of the season and expect him to still be here in 18 months. I would love to be pleasantly surprised though. Of course that then means Dumb and Dumber having to find another manager and as we all know they are **** clueless at that.

The higher they rise and the further we drop certainly makes Randys managerial appointments post O'Neill look very, very poor to say the least.

They actually have a good history all be it like us a lot of it is pre WWII - 7 League titles and 2 FA Cups. They also have an excellent fan base and with a sniff of relative success will easily average over 40k. I'm sure they are enjoying there upturn whilst us, and specifically Darren Bent, look set for a bleak immediate future. It is no surprise that they are revelling in it and having a few digs in our direction.

You wanted a manger to give you an instant bounce you couldn't pick better than O'Neill. He is an excellent man manager and at motivating players to give their all. Its how he gets so much out of players that other managers can't seem to. He has his limits though as we know but he will certainly take Sunderland to relative success and that will be top 8 for them especially as he is likely to have a limited budget. Perhaps not this season but next. He proved at Leicester when he had relatively **** all to spend that he could do well on a shoestring and he got them promoted, 4 seasons on the spin in the top 10, two League Cup wins and also losing finalists. That was for them great success.

Whilst we continue to struggle then some will look at what O'Neill is doing and if he is doing well use that as a stick to beat the club with. By the same token there are those that don't like O'Neill who will also take great pleasure in posting when Sunderland lose. In all fairness if we were doing well or had done even remotely well since he left no one would give two **** what he was doing.

I'd guess Reo Coker would be worth around 3 - 5mill. Had he not been out of contract we could have got around half what we paid for him back and he then perhaps wouldn't have seemed such a flop. We certainly paid slightly over the odds for him but he was at the time only just 23, West Ham captain, ex England Under 21 Captain and on the verge of the full squad.

With Squarez out for 8 games and Carroll still looking well out of sorts then you wouldn't rule it out. I still don't see it though but there is no doubt that a bid of 17mill+ will see Randy rubbing his hands and Bent wanting out quicker than Downing.

If not tonight it will be sometime soon. Same can be said for Fulham who will also over take us. The shit of it all is of course they both have worse squads than us along with a number of other sides above us.

Right **** up from Reina. 1-0 Man City.

Ah, there's no failure like a glorious failure. Mike Bassett would have done a better job than O'Neill with the same backing. He achieved about par for the course. What was his net spend in 4 years? I'd hazard a guess at 60 - 80 mill. You take in to account the 30mill+ profit we have since made on Milner, Young and Downing and it would be way less. This was also our wage bill in comparison to league finishes: In 07/08 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th. In 08/09 - 8th highest wages, finished 6th. In 09/10 - 6th highest wages, finished 6th. He certainly didn't fail. In fact in terms of wages to league finishes he over achieved...twice.

The tactics aren't going to change whilst McLeish is manager. As much as it grieves me to say it the manager will not be replaced in the medium term. Therefore I think what some are suggesting is that Bent will never be prolific under McLeish and given that if Bent isn't scoring he is doing **** all else it may be better if he goes and McLeish brings in players who better suit the way he likes to play. I am not saying its Bents faults but yesterday we may as well have played with 10 men as Bent was anonymous. Bent will continue to be ineffective in a lot of games whilst McLeish is manager and that isn't going to change any time soon. For at least another 18 months in my opinion.

I don't agree. I played football at a decent level and when any decent players left or were out injured we pulled together and worked harder to try and make up for that loss. In a work environment you do the same as well. If someone leaves or is off work then those remaining work harder to make up for that loss. Bent can either feel sorry for himself and yearn for the days of Ash and Downing who are long gone or he can knuckle down and try to do all he can to make up for their loss. Fans can accept players being off form. What is unacceptable regardless of circumstance is not giving 100%.

McLeish has been managing for the best part of 20 years. He isn't going to suddenly change his approach.

There were plenty of really entertaining games at home. Off the top of my head - Beating Chelsea twice, the 4-1 against Newcastle, the 3-0 against Sheff Utd, the 4-2 against Man City, the 5-2 against Burnley the 2-1 against Ajax, the 5-1 against Sha, the 4-0, 4-2 and 5-1 against Bolton, the 2-2 against Arsenal, the 3-3 against Everton, the 6-4 against Blackburn. It is incomparable what we served up back then to the tripe we have been served up over the last 18 months. It really is a shame that it seems we will look back on the O'Neill years and see them as our most successful of this century for many years to come. The blame for that at the moment has to be laid firmly at Lerners door and it simply isn't good enough for this great club. Oh and to compare McLeish to O'Neill is foolish. Just look at his record at Leicester a comparable sized club to Sha. Got them promoted, 4 top 10 finishes on the spin, 3 league cup finals winning it twice. McLeish may be a nice bloke but in terms of management he isn't a patch on O'Neill. Again though the fault for us being lumbered with him is down to Lerner.

Except the person who made the appointment. He has made two astonishing choices really. Firstly Houllier a guy who hadn't managed for 3 years, hadn't managed in the Premiership for several years, was out of touch and a known cheque book manager when we were looking to cut back on spending. It was no surprise then that we found ourselves in deep shit sitting in or around the relegation mire for 5 months and he had to spend the best part of 30 mill to get us out of the shit he'd got us in to. Now with Mcleish a manager who had two recent relegations on his record known for playing negative unattractive football. It is again therefore no surprise that we find ourselves struggling, playing unattractive football and attendances quickly dwindling. It is hard to believe really that anyone could be so incompetent to not see where we would be heading by making the managerial appointments they have. Lerner and Faulkner it is very clear to see know **** all about football but given it is Lerner that appointed Faulkner he is ultimately responsible for the shit we find ourselves in. I'm all for sacking McLeish but don't expect his replacement to be much better if its Lerner and Faulkner choosing him.