alienvillan

Excellent game! Magnificent! Relaxed, Sunday morning drive through the countryside, no rush, easy on the eyes. I bet there wasn't a single player on the pitch not thinking about playing at Wembley. This performance wasn't unexpected.

The best view on my TV wasn't Milner scoring the goal or Downing's "bull's eye" pass. It was the happy away fans.

A lot of self-pity crap on here. This is challenging the big4! IMO this was much better play and performance against Liverpool than the 3-1 victory in August. This was 50/50 against a club with permanent Champions League status and a draw would have been a fair result. Good show, jolly good show IMO! And the attitude should be: What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger! This is challenging the big4. Good game!

Don't worry, we have depth in our squad.

At Anfield, I don't recall Ash doing much, but NRC was effective (though in a 5-man midfield, IIRC). So I'd say a midfield with Milner, Petrov, NRC, and Downing with Heskey occasionally making it effectively a 5-man midfield should still have some success against Pool. I think Rafa's under enough pressure to have to try for the win, as opposed to his last couple of trips to VP where Liverpool seemed content with a point. A draw is the worst-reasonable case scenario for me there. (kind of off-topic for this thread, but hey what can ya do). Since Downing/Milner shake-up Heskey has had a new role mainly because of his (aerial) strength. He wins 9 out of 10 aerial battles, OK, but what’s the use? 10/10 of his headers go straight into the feet of the defenders of the opposite side. That’s actually very easy for the opponents. Those balls are useless for us. It was different when we had Ormondroyd (20 years ago), there was a connection between his headers and our strikers. It worked, this Heskey version doesn’t. And to say Heskey is an extra midfielder in a 5-man midfield, it just sounds pathetic IMO. Heskey is no midfielder. He really looks like Bruno, runs like a heavy weight boxer in the ring. Without his non mobile strength useless in midfield. IMO strikers are supposed to be exciting, unpredictable. Now we have Agbonlahor, Heskey and Carew, 3 big fellows unable to dribble. We need a little bit of “Arsenal” in that department (literally). We were poor against Arsenal. But we have been the team of the month, 5 wins out of 6, so this is still good. Danm yuo, Fabregas.

Africa Cup of Nations: The group stage games will be played from Jan 10 to Jan 21 and the final on Jan 31. And if I've heard right the players must be "released" for national duties 14 days before the first game. So the players representing their countries in Africa Cup of Nations will be out of PL action for 4-5 weeks. This is a big blow for us because we will be missing Salifou. But it may be even worse for our top4 challenging rivals: Song, Eboue (Arsenal) Toure, Adebayor (Man.City) Bassong (Spurs). And it's really bad news for Chelsea: Drogba, Kalou, Essien, Mikel. So ...?

Sorry on that one. My comment wasn't aimed at you on that, and I should have said so. There are people who've said it, and IMO they're wrong. I might have said, and I would say again, that "we were stuck in the 80s" from Stoke 2-2 last season to Downing's Villa debut - and Milner's switch to CM - this season.

Saying we have zero chance of finishing ahead of Spurs is beyond "Down to Earth". I agree, zero chance to beat Spurs is nonsense. But I believe the writer was exaggerating and using too strong words .. and that usually is a mistake. My valuation: We have 50-60% chance of finishing ahead of Spurs. We have 40-60% chance of finishing ahead of Man.City. We have 50% chance of finishing ahead of Liverpool. We have 10% chance of finishing ahead of Arsenal. We have zero chance of finishing ahead of Chelsea and Man.Utd. And we have 90-95% chance of finishing ahead of Birmingham City. I think the day 37 and 38 will be very stressful for us, Liverpool, Man.City and Tottenham.

I think this is a hilarious battle between "celebrating our top4 status after 18 games" and "writing off of our chances". I think it's realistic to be down to earth with this. If we are 4th in May then we can start celebrating.

I like the OP half term analysis. It's as pessimistic as it can be and I believe it was also meant to be. "Down to earth" and intentionally (?) too much of that. It's also realistic, IMO. Looking at the league table, we were here ten months ago. What happened last season might happen again. Of course, the manager and the players have learnt from that experience and we have a stronger squad (in some areas). Injuries played a big part last season. Fabregas was out for a lengthy period and everybody knows how important player he is for Arsenal. They struggled without him and when he came back fit and running they just couldn't be stopped. Now they have van Persie injured, and Fabregas too, again. Liverpool have been struggling without Torres and Gerrard this season. Hughes just couldn't win and now they (Man.C) have Mancini, probably a big threat there. Without injuries (to key players) those clubs/teams will have strong second halves of the season. Spurs are an on/off team, exciting and creative but not so solid or stable. It they can fix their defensive problems they will be a serious top4 challenger. We are not a top4 club yet, far (20 games) from it. But it's looking good, better than last season.

Sit back tactics and conceding late goals Feb to May last season. We just stopped playing. Stoke from 2-0 to 2-2, disaster ... that never seemed to stop.

I'll stop ranting if we win this.

We lose I rant.

I don't know who said it first but you are only as good as your last game. That's my vote.

Petrov can play in a 4-4-2. Xavi and Iniesta cannot.

About the General's (or MON's) information sources above: I don't think that comes as a surprise to anyone (these days). After that it's the manager's capability to use that information that matters. And again, after that it's about the managers philosophy and his approach to the game. If we as spectators had the same information we probably would change our opinions. Or not. And if there were 10 different (real) managers with the same information and players, there would be 10 different looking teams. Our ideal formation and starting line-up would be something like this: ------------------- Friedel ------- Cuellar -- Collins -- Dunne L.Young ----------------------------- Warnock ----------------- Reo-Coker ---------- Sidwell -------- Petrov Downing -------- Milner ----------- A.Young ----------- Carew ----- Agbonlahor Of course the rest of the footballing world would struggle accepting this.

I think it's some of the posters having problems with Stan that is the problem.

I expect us to finish 7th. I don't expect us to break the top4, no worries there anymore. But based purely on our average performance I expect bottom6 finish. Even Wigan play better football. That's where I lose my sleep. It will be torture but there won't be any changes until Downing gets fit and (the 11th hour of) the January transfer window. Until then (from West Ham match thread)

I have just seen the light! (I think?) Friedel Beye Collins Dunne Warnock Reo-Coker Petrov Delph A Young Carew Agbomlahir And we win! And I'm satisfied with our performance!

To me our style of play and performance means everything! Our tactics are defensive, we don't have much creativity and we are hORRible to watch! Our style of play won't get us very far. During the countdown, the closer the kick-off, the less I care about the performance and the result becomes more and more important. On match day it's the result that matters. The rest of the week it's the performance and the style of our play. So it's Jekyll & Hyde again. At the moment, through claret&blue lenses 3 points is absolute minimum, logic says something different. West Ham have played well in the last two games (Arsenal 2-2 h, Sundeland 2-2 a) and we probably are missing Petrov, Milner and Cuellar so for me the odds are against us. This looks too good to be true but, again, this is one of those rare occasions when it is "in our own hands". 1 Chelsea ........ 27/11 2 Man Utd ........ 25/11 3 Arsenal ......... 22/10 4 Aston Villa ..... 21/11 5 Man City ....... 19/10 6 Tottenham ..... 19/11 7 Liverpool ....... 18/11 So it's now or never again. 3 points absolute minimum!

Looks like a dull 0-0 draw, but I'll predict 1-1. But as I'm (again) trying to shake off my torment pessimism and negativity and as I usually go terribly wrong with my predictions, I'm getting prepared for a real surprise :shock: performance.

:? Is your perfect game a 0-0? Because mistakes and defensive errors are what lead to goals. BBC and SKY analyse the shit out of games and all they talk about are mistakes, he should have got tighter, he left his man free, he tracked the ball not his man etc etc... Forcing a team to make mistakes is what leads to goals. BBC and SKY are pessimists! 0-0 could be perfect game but not necessarily perfect result. 0-0 could be really entertaining game with some spectacular goalkeeping. I don't know about forcing a team to make mistakes ...? Maybe we have different philosophy? Excellent team score spectacular goals, without the opposite side making any mistakes. Well no, every goal could be stopped when you analyse, an interception there, a tackle here. Maybe 5% of goals are spectacular. Well that's the beauty of the game. It's not like chess. You can't analyze during the game, well as a spectator, yes, but as a player, no. After the game we can analyze as much as we want - as we do, actually, but that's hindsight, no effect. In theory every goal could be stopped. But "on the other side of the coin", in theory, you could also score from every position. Damned, now I'm the optimist.

:? Is your perfect game a 0-0? Because mistakes and defensive errors are what lead to goals. BBC and SKY analyse the shit out of games and all they talk about are mistakes, he should have got tighter, he left his man free, he tracked the ball not his man etc etc... Forcing a team to make mistakes is what leads to goals. BBC and SKY are pessimists! 0-0 could be perfect game but not necessarily perfect result. 0-0 could be really entertaining game with some spectacular goalkeeping. I don't know about forcing a team to make mistakes ...? Maybe we have different philosophy? Excellent team score spectacular goals, without the opposite side making any mistakes.

So it's 50/50? Foul after foul, mistakes and someone doing the unexpected. Don't blame the referees anymore (I'm not suggesting you did), everybody makes mistakes and shit happens.

What if losing to Wigan and Blackburn tells the real story? What if winning against Chelsea and Liverpool were just accidents? I'm probably the most negative poster on here. I am the real villain! But every game and result tells us where we are and who we are. Or vice versa? At least you know you're negative though. Yeah. To be negative is tough enough, and knowing it makes it even tougher:( But how many times have you seen Lampard make the kind of mistake he made when Dunne scored? How many times have you seen a CB so unmarked as Collins was when he scored? How many goals have Lucas scored with a header? And how many own goals? How many times has NRC been fouled inside the penalty area?