VillaAndLoyal

As far as I'm concerned there is no valid reason, there would be safe standing areas and seating areas so if you don't want to stand you don't have too. That's why I posed the question mate, because there IS no valid reason.

Absolutely yes. I watched the ten minute bill in Parliament live yesterday and it would be FANTASTIC news if this was passed. It was also debated on Radio Five Live earlier this morning. Those who say no, could you give a valid reason?

This. C'mon Dudley mate, think about it. I am as pissed off as you with Monday night, believe me. But I don't go down the Villa because of Houllier, or even the 11 players (I obvioulsy support them) - I go down because I support the club, and what it stands for. Players change, managers change, chairman change, even the stadia changes sometimes. What's the one thing that always stays the same? The fans. We ARE the lifeblood of the club - without us there would be no Aston Villa Football Club. So yes, have morals and withdraw any support for GH, but don't let one individual sway you from staying away from the club. It just doesn't make sense, no matter what you say.

If West Brom "suck" then we must "double suck" at the moment. This is the first time (in how many years) that West Brom will actually approach this game genuinely thinking they can win it. We've had a hoodoo over them for so long - will that stand up on Saturday? It better had else GH really is out of the door. I sincerely hope Dunne isn't asked to mark Odemwinge otherwise it could be a long afternoon...

Can you see it now? Can you really? I can honestly say to you - yes if we had of won you would have seen completely different comments And the award for the 'state the obvious' post of the year goes to.................

Cracking post. How can anyone disagree with it? Houllier OUT for the good of the club.

General With the greatest of respect you talk as if you are just a fan like me, and not a board member. If you are so in agreement with me about having a winning mentality - then without having to even ask you, I know that his bizarre comments must have concerned you greatly. I therefore would hope yourself, Randy, or whoever asked him to explain his comments at the very least. But, as usual, it's the fans who are kept in the dark again. None of us are asking you to be a mind-reader - presumably you asked him to explain his comments straight away? The bigger picture is that when players here that kind of thing in the press it is NOT going to help our cause whatsoever.

I too would like an answer to this question General. How can the club continue to back a 'manager' with that defeatist mentality? Comments like that make his position untenable in my eyes and many others.

Thank the lord that yourself, Briny_ear and HolteExile realise the point to all this. People arguing about whether we are actually a "8th to 12th" side You couldn't make it up!

The story so far? Well the OP puts a largely positive spin on the situation - so here's a slightly different take. He arrived telling us that Aston Villa Football Club is a team which finishes 8th to 12th in the league - not seen the last three seasons Gerard? He arrived telling us that we're bottlers in Europe - *cough cough* 1982, Gerard. He has admittedly had many injuries to deal with, for which I was prepared to give him more lee-way. However injuries don't explain why we set up so negatively in the Second-City derby league game, injuries don't explain why we applied completely the wrong "game plan" against Blackburn and played into their hands, and injuries don't explain why our team looked defeated from minute one on Monday night. This injury problem seemed to coincide with introducing a completely new training regime. Has it made an impact? We can only speculate. But don't let people say Gerard has had no luck whatsoever. His first victory, Wolves away, I thought was very lucky. We were battered by Wolves who missed some great chances, only for Heskey to effectively rob them with a quite brilliant header at the death. There was no shortage of luck in that game. He has baffled a large proportion of Villa fans by dropping Carlos Cuellar after a MOTM performance against Wolves - and not playing him again thus far (apart from the Carling Cup). What has made this ongoing decision even more bizarre is the fact that Richard Dunne, and lately James Collins have also been playing completely out-of-form, often to the detriment of the team. Why has Cuellar seemingly been rebuffed in such a manner? Some people have argued it's because Gerard "wants to keep balance in the team" by playing a right-footed player at right-centre back and vice versa. However that is not an argument I buy personally - as many centre-backs play in both CB berths with no difficulty, something Cuellar proved at Wolves. Another decision which left certain fans perplexed is the open manner in which Gerard has decided to criticise - and in the case of John Carew - get into public spats with certain team members. A method which is highly unlikely to inspire the rest of the team and squad with much confidence or positivity. Looking at the performances of both Ireland and Carew since the manager's "blunt" remarks, I would be fairly confident of saying they did not have the desired effect. Neither of these two players looks like they want to play for the club any longer. Was this exacerbated by Gerard's remarks? It seems a highly likely probability. I will not dwell on "rumours" because I don't want this to appear a witch-hunt, even though some rumours have come from previously very reliable sources. Briefly, some of these rumours have included reports that a number of senior players (some of whom are playing in the first team at present) have been told they are surplus to requirements in either January or the summer. If true, it's hardly likely to promote good feelings or inspire any motivation in the team. A number of senior players are supposedly disillusioned with the new strict regime which includes a rule banning players from "non-football" related talk on the training pitch and the carrying of mobile phones. Is this a popular footballing philosophy in the 21st century? Is this the best way to create a good team bond off the pitch? Then we get on to the facts - 2 wins in 11 games - one win in 10 Premier League games - equating to more than a quarter of the season. Two points above the relegation zone with a tough run of Christmas fixtures ahead of us. Results don't lie, the table doesn't lie, and in my opinion the expressions of the players faces doesn't lie either. As Southgate commented on Monday night "something is clearly wrong at Aston Villa" - I don't think he's talking about injuries and i also don't think he's the type of person to "knee jerk" or "scaremonger" - two phrases which have been bandied about by certain fans. Then we get on to Monday night. Personally I went to Liverpool knowing we were unlikely to get anything from the game, and that the media would "milk" the supposed occasion of Houllier returning as much as they could. I expected Houllier to perhaps clap their fans at the start and for an under-strength Villa team to have a real go at an under-strength Liverpool side. This was, of course, the perfect chance to bounce back from the Small Heath Alliance game. What we got was something completely different. At the game it was bad enough - to see all 11 players give up so spectacularly (similarly to the Newcastle match) was unacceptable and quite frankly mind-boggling. Despite that, the fans out sung the "famous" Kop for 90 minutes and were a credit to our Club. At the final whistle the very least Gerard Houllier could have done - the majority feel - was to applaud our magnificent away following. So to see him instead clapping starry-eyed at the Kop and ignoring our fans was an absolute disgrace. After the match our fans were ready to walk out dejected and deflated, instead they walked out angry and betrayed. So to get home and read his pathetic comments - including one where he said the game was over at 2-0 - do we need a manager with that defeatist mentality running our great club? It then also became apparent that he had stroked the "This is Anfield" sign - a tradition for Liverpool players and managers - and almost walked into the home-dressing room before the game. What was the guy playing at? In my mind he heaped embarrassment and belittled the fans of our great club in front of the watching world in the greatest capacity to behold, that of manager. He should be representing us, not provoking this sort of outrage through his actions. He famously and recently accused John Carew in public of 'living in the past' - well that statement has really come back to haunt him now. In my opinion, despite his years of experience in the game, he turned what was a crucial PL match into his own testimonial. And that, for me, is unforgiveable. They say the attitude of the players often reflects that of their manager, and Monday it proved to be the case. I'm not going to get into whether I think he should stay or go - people can easily read between the lines - but for me, that's the story of Mr Houllier so far.

I've read at least five posters make that same mistake.

You could not make it up! He finishes by asking for our support - erm, sorry to break it to you Gerard, but our support has been nothing short of fantastic including on Monday night. A fact you clearly forgot while you daydreamed about past times. Houllier Out!

I wonder if ol' Gerard is planning to stroke the Tesco carrier bag Albion shirt and bounce up and down on the touchline during the game chanting "boing boing". My heart says no, my head says yes. As for the game - must win - simple as that.

We had loads of internationals elsewhere on the field, I don't get your point. The two aforementioned youngsters you are making out to be "handicaps" in our side are the same youngsters who everyone has been raving about against sides such as United. Swings and roundabouts.

The club was here a long time before GH, and will remain so a long time after he has left. If we lose to West Brom AND Wigan, then we can start to ask questions, but can anyone honestly say they thought the side we were forced to put our against Liverpool was anywhere near capable of beating them? Your last point needs re-emphasising for some on here. Yes absolutely it was capable. We have a lot of injuries at central midfield but it doesn't turn us into a conference side ffs. Last season we went there with a back 4 of Shorey-Davies-Cuellar-Beye but they defended like their lives depended on it and we won by scoring from set pieces. And Plop had Torres/Gerrard playing then. The perfomance was very poor but make no mistake the mdifeld we started with last night of Hogg and Clark in middle alongside out of sorts Ireland and back from operation Albrighton was still a big handicap before a ball was kicked. Course Hogg and Clark in middle is the same as when had Milner , Petrov and Reo Coker starting in same game last year ....? Our back 4 wasn't the same either, not one of our first choice back four now was playing. Neither is Liverpool missing Torres/Gerrard. Milner was playing wide and Sidwell was playing in the middle btw. Of course it's a handicap we had to play two youngsters in the middle, but to say that team is not capable of beating an above average premier league side is just rubbish. Yeh the back four wasn't the same - tho many here would argue that Cuellar should be a first choice than either Dunne or Collins at moment. The senior back four last night and under Houllier in general have been awful and that is real concern at moment - seeing our so called first choice seniors playing so shite. But the team on paper last night was undoubtedly a lot weaker than the one that beat Liverpool last year 3-1 becuase of the midfield imo. Hogg , Clark , Ireland , Albrighton , Downing Vs Reo Coker , Petrov , Milner , Sidwell , Ashley Young Still doesn't excuse the performance or Houlliers comments but the injuries do still have to be taken into account a bit. ...as do Liverpool's - to their three most influential players. I've been to Anfield on many occasion and this was by FAR the weakest and poorest Liverplop side I have ever seen us up against. And yet, they really should have hit six or seven past us.

Just like the 'facts' you chose to ignore on the 'poll' thread earlier when I quoted a post you made about the 'majority being kneejerkers'? Yes, I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

Eh.. They want the statement to fan the flames? The flames of what? ...because it's normal to release a direct statement to fans after an away loss, isn't it? Wake up.

MOTM goes to our fans - we kept a lot of Liverpool supporters hugely entertained in the second-half and showed more passion than the whole of the Villa team put together.

General As someone who works in the media I find it horrific that the PR department couldn't come out with anything better than that. They did have a whole day after all. The fans will not forget this. They will not forget that you had every chance to address the matter today but have chosen to back a manager who has no respect for the football club he is employed by. Expect the rumblings of discontent to gather pace now thanks to your decision. V&L

How do you work that one out? 61% of fans on VillaTalk want him gone today. 42% of fans on Heroes and Villans want him gone today. Of those that didn't want him sacked - 28% want him disciplined by the club. And that's just coming from Villa's two main messageboards. What's this majority you talk of? The majority, sorry the "kneejerkers", clearly want him gone.

The strength of feeling warrants the use of the word "we" quite clearly. no it doesn't. at the least qualify your answers with more specific groupings like " a vocal number" etc, don't include me and others in your generalisations if that houllier poll gets to 99% No then knock yourself out, but from fans I've spoken to in the real world, no-one's calling for him to go yet, we're all just a bit miffed with results. Oh right so you make the rules now, do you? If "we" get to 99% then "we" can call ourselves "we" - how very good of you And yeah, I've also spoken to a lot of fans who don't even know what the internet is, let alone VillaTalk, and they are all of the opinion that Gerard crossed a line last night. I'm glad the fans in the "real world" are "all" just a bit miffed - nothing like a sweeping generalisation eh? Pot, kettle...

The strength of feeling warrants the use of the word "we" quite clearly.

This isn't JUST about him not waving at the fans. So please don't try and claim this whole storm is over a "small gesture".

Welcome to the board, Gerard.

Fully agree with this, 100%. We seem to have some people who think it is fine for Aston Villa Football Club to be insulted by our 'manager' and shown so little respect in front of the watching world and 1,500 loyal away fans. We also seem to have some people who still have faith in a manager who openly admitted that, and I quote, "the game was over" at 2-0. I honestly cannot fathom the thinking of these said people. Houllier out NOW! His position is untenable.