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Teale's 'tache

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Everything posted by Teale's 'tache

  1. Teale's 'tache
    Meh...
  2. Teale's 'tache
    No problem, I'm a bit sleep-deprived at the moment, apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick on that one.
  3. Teale's 'tache
    I do, but I'm not as successful as you and your comedy career obviously...
  4. Teale's 'tache
    Made it look a bit less pukey and stood it up a bit straighter. Something is still not right though, think the proportions are maybe a little too human... I'll probably leave it there, got work to do.
  5. Teale's 'tache
    I got a bit bored waiting for the announcement, so I thought I'd have a play at improving the lion, trying to get a bit more movement and make it more regal... Moral of the story? Lions that scale down are really difficult to get right...
  6. Teale's 'tache
    I'm not sure it's luck, they invested in a new stadium and took the hit while it was being built, but because of it they have now doubled their income on matchdays and are near if not the top in terms of earnings for each game. They've steadily sold players for big money, but stayed at a similar level, so recruitment, although mixed and occasionally wasteful, has been generally successful over a long period of time. In theory, they have loads of room in terms of FFP from the Kane sale and large income streams. The only things they've done wrong is not to win anything, and to keep changing managers at a high cost. I'd say the only luck involved was being able to use Wembley while their new stadium was built, but that's more just taking advantage of their location. Essentially, they just took advantage when they got in the top 4 and the extra money it brings in. I hope we can too should we be there at the end of the season.
  7. Teale's 'tache
    The issue would be that anyone could purchase a license for that same lion from Shutterstock and do whatever they wanted with it, and we'd have absolutely no leg to stand on from a legal point of view. With a brand as big as ours you want protection over your image/brand. Having a lion custom made and copywrited protects you from having your lion plastered all over porn sites, or another club hijacking our popularity by adopting the same lion etc.
  8. Teale's 'tache
    Just calling it as I see it, I do not need to twist anything, but you're most welcome to ignore my opinion.
  9. Teale's 'tache
    The problem is it is in the second less visible tweet. He knows (or should know as somebody with so much experience in the industry) that this is what has happened, there's no 'could' about it, but he has still tried to mislead people in his first and most visible tweet for some reason (most likely clout/interactions). It's just irresponsible. Misinformation is a global problem at the moment and 'experts' like Lee using their knowledge to manufacture outrage is not very helpful to anyone.
  10. Teale's 'tache
    Looking at the people who contributed these vectors and the other things they have contributed, Lee has found a giant nothing burger. This is not where our lions came from. An internationally renowned company like Dragon Rouge isn't going to just grab a vector lion off Shutterstock. Thought someone with his experience would know better and maybe dig a little deeper.
  11. Teale's 'tache
    Depends on the brief, if you're not allowed to change the colours, lion or star (which I think might of been the case, I mean why else would you keep them?!) then this design wouldn't fill the criteria and nor would pretty much all the fan made designs we see/have made.
  12. Teale's 'tache
    Mate, you are entitled to your opinion, I'm not going to be offended by it. But I am also entitled to mine. I think it's good, but far from perfect and I will always strive for better.
  13. Teale's 'tache
    Though I agree with most of his critique, I'm not overly impressed with the crest options he's produced, better than we're getting for sure, but his designs have their own issues. Again a lot depends on the brief, evolution or redesign, the difference in restrictions make a huge difference.
  14. Teale's 'tache
    I've explained previously from a design perspective that a round badge isn't optimal for a few reasons. But, from a fan point of view, I understand it's a far more complex matter, as it ties in with a short period of incredible success for the club. However, some seem to forget we bobbed around not doing much after that and also got relegated with it, so it's not like it only brought success. It was rightly changed in the early 90's as it looked very dated by then, very 80's, and in the 90's everyone seemed very keen to distance themselves from the eighties like it was some kind of bad fever dream. Nowadays, with the retro appeal and a relative starving of success, it's not all that surprising so many are pining for a round crest.
  15. Teale's 'tache
    Just to add this I previously posted the below in reply to someone: In addition to the above, there may be supplier contracts that can be allowed to run their course rather than straight cancelled which would likely involve cost as well. Brand evolutions can be good, and environmentally better as there is less waste, but they depend on the current brand not having glaring issues such as ours.
  16. Teale's 'tache
    I struggle a little with this as well, but I'd guess our owners have a budget of what they are willing to spend on us year on year, like any of the other businesses they run, and we have to be at least near that budget. They may have near-infinite wealth between them, but they don't afford us an infinite budget, which is perfectly reasonable.
  17. Teale's 'tache
    There is every way in the world, it's common for data to be used in an interview process, especially at a high level such as this. I wouldn't be surprised if the owners consulted Heck with concerns about the figures for the rebrand and in part employed him based on his response. It is all conjecture, I'm just looking logically looking for reasons rather than blindly trying to attribute blame. We have amazing owners, but it should come as no surprise that they will pull projects if they are not financially viable, that's just good business and they are good businessmen. I have no idea why people find that so hard to believe. I'm done with this, I've neither the time nor the hunger to argue with you or @Captain_Townsend any further, believe whatever you want.
  18. Teale's 'tache
    Well, then the launch was delayed until the numbers were crunched and clarified, he may have taken one look and thought 'We need a second opinion on that figure'. Also, he may well have been sounded out and presented with some of this data long in advance of his appointment.
  19. Teale's 'tache
    I believe, after a quick Google, Heck was appointed in May 2023 and the crest was announced as cancelled in September 2023, seems plenty of time to have crunched the numbers to me. I agree that the owners have never held back on investment, but at the same time, successful business people do not endlessly plough money into a project without considering if they'll get it back at some point, if the figures don't add up they'll pull the plug.
  20. Teale's 'tache
    I'll speculate on why, but this is just speculation so please keep that in mind. I would imagine at the beginning of the process Purslow, the owners, or whoever suggested we needed a rebrand, then most likely Purslow as CEO, went out and costed the project, how much would it cost to have the design created and rolled out everywhere in one go? Let's call that figure A, he'd also probably crunched some numbers to figure out a rough 'ROI' (Return On Investment), let's call that figure B. Purslow presented this to the owners, and everybody agreed the figures were far enough apart to make it worthwhile, a budget was set, and the project was green-lit. Purslow goes and hires a design company and the process begins, design is produced, fans are consulted, and everybody is happy by and large. Now Purslow leaves and Heck comes in with a remit to make and to save us money. He looks at the figures and he believes that figure A is far too low, it's going to cost a lot more to roll out the new brand than Purslow anticipated, and quite possibly figure B is a bit on the optimistic side, so he believes as somebody who has worked more in the field of branding than Purslow that the figures are much closer together, he takes this to the owners explaining the additional costs and the effects it will have, how much extra budget might be needed to continue and possibly at this point the roundel crest gets canned, and they then try to figure out a more cost-effective way to refresh the brand. Projects like these do get paused, cancelled, or scaled back all the time, partly because figures A and B are both difficult to calculate with any degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, this has been a very public process in a very passionate industry, and so somebody is going to have to get it in the neck, Heck is taking the heat for it at the moment and if he's got his figures wrong then he should, but if he's right then possibly not. Again to clarify, this is just speculation, I have no inside knowledge, I've just seen projects be scaled back or ended for this kind of situation before so it lines up in my mind. Edit: As @NurembergVillan has mentioned previously, the kits are produced way in advance, so I'm guessing the process had already started before Purslow left and Heck came in. Hence why we have that badge on our shirts this season.
  21. Teale's 'tache
    Exactly, it's the change of brief that disappoints me the most. The crest they've produced isn't that bad once you understand the restrictions in place. As a designer I've seen plenty of good brands and the effect good branding can have, so I was very excited and hopeful that we'd be getting something that could really push the club to the next level in terms of attracting sponsors, fans and marketing, and just to finally put an end to this awful disjointed brand that has been holding us back. To still be stuck pretty much where we were, after all the faffing around and money wasted, is just very very poor in my view.
  22. Teale's 'tache
    I believe what we are being given, judging by the crest we've seen, is a brand evolution rather than a total rebrand. If this is the case then there are definitely more restrictions than just the ones outlined in the results of the survey, and you have to start with the Lerner crest and go from there. I'd imagine they couldn't change the lion, the direction it is facing, or the star as that would kill too much branding already out there, they also likely couldn't change the colours as it would be too big a change and take the new design too far away from the Lerner crest for them to feel part of the same brand. The reason they need to feel part of the same brand is so you can phase out the Lerner badge gradually over time rather than outright change everything in one go. There'd have to be a shield shape at least similar to the original. Then add the questionnaire restrictions and you can see how the designers have been very restricted in what they can do. The text being top or bottom is a bit overblown for me, both can work and both can look unbalanced, it's the '1874' that's causing most of the balance issues in my opinion. The AV150, again in my opinion, is a good idea with good colours, it's just poorly executed, it should be more obvious what it is supposed to say. Also, launching that marque on its own, on Twitter, on the day the fans find out about the North Stand project being put on hold really made a bad first impression and those are difficult to shake. I'm not defending the crest we've seen, I'm not happy about it, even with the restrictions in place it could be better, I'm just trying to explain why the fan-made designs (my own included) haven't been working to the same restrictions and so it's much easier to make something more desirable.
  23. Teale's 'tache
    Fan designs work to whatever restrictions they want, for example a fan design can drop the star or 1874 and people will say it looks clean, but the survey dictates to the actual designers that they have to be there, if there were no restrictions I'm certain we'd be looking at an entirely different and likely much better design.
  24. Teale's 'tache
    I'm using the evidence of my eyes and engaging a bit of logic. The lion, star and colours are intentionally the same so they don't have to change every single part of branding and marketing materials. A brand evolution is cheaper to roll out than a complete rebrand, and this is a brand evolution. A brand evolution can be a good thing in some cases. An example: Imagine for a moment that we have paper sheets we use at the ground to wrap the hot dogs/burgers/pies etc. in, and that paper has a pattern of the Lerner crest on it. Now consider how many of those we might have in stock, 100k? 250k to last a season maybe? Possibly we bought millions a couple of years back thinking the crest wouldn't change for a long time. With a complete rebrand, all that stock goes in the bin, but with an evolution, you can keep using these paper sheets until they run out as the two crests are similar enough to be part of the same brand. Now take that example and apply it to thousands of other lines we have in place and you can see how the cost is less up front and spreads out as the old badge is phased out over several years. They'll likely change the crest in places where it is most visible straight away, but we'll still be seeing the Lerner crest for a few years. So it can be a good cost-saving exercise and is also better environmentally as there is less waste. However, the fundamental problem in this instance is that our brand is crap to begin with, and has a glaring flaw in the colour scheme that a brand evolution cannot correct. At some point, it needs fixing, for whatever reason the decision has been made that it won't be now. Why the club has taken this route I don't know, I don't know enough about the financial side of the club to speculate, I doubt we'll get a straight answer out of Mr Heck and I doubt they'll come out and sell it as the cheaper option. Heck may well be incompetent, but the crest we are getting is the result of a business decision.
  25. Teale's 'tache
    The round badge is only on kits/training gear which change every year anyway, so the cost of replacing it is negligible. The cost of keeping it and rolling out everywhere is a lot, I read a figure of around £10m somewhere, but I forget where.
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