Glarmorgan

You can call me whatever you wish. I don't approve of the settlements, but your description is far from the truth, hence I find it hard to call it "facts". In fact, the Right Wing parties here are furious for Bibi disapproval to expand the settlement. There is a constant arguments regarding this issue. The wall? Just check how many terrorist attacks we endured before the wall, and check the number after. I would like to be kept alive and not being bombed in my bus in Tel Aviv, and if a wall (or a fence) will bring me that - that's fine by me. Removing Palestinians from their homes?! I went to Wikipedia. According to Wikipedia the population growth rate in the West Bank is almost 2% (2014 stats). The population growth rate in the UK in 2017 was 0.5% (according to the CIA site). The mortality rate in the West Bank was 3.51/1000. In the UK 9.4/1000. These are numbers of a tyranny? I am not an HASBARA agent any more than you'r a BDS agent. You want facts? Start digging deeper and checking various sources of information.

OK. Let's separate the Israeli-Arabs from the Palestinians. I related to the former. The Palestinians, as I said, are a problem which I find it hard to see a solution to, at the moment. Having said that - you cannot relate to Gaza and to the West Bank as same, as they are controlled by different factions and Israel made different steps regarding them both. Israel withdrew from Gaza completely. There are not "Gaza Lands" in Israeli hands. Still, after the withdrawal, Hammas took over and made Gaza his base of operation. Hammas is not into peace. Under no circumstances. They say it out loud. Earlier today I ran into an old interview with a Hammas official who blatantly said that any ceasefire's goal is to make them ready for the next round of violence. There is a border between Israel and Gaza. What you see in recent weeks are people trying to go through this border. Israel has its right to stop people from entering, especially when their intentions are well known. If you'll ask me - Israel should think of a way to help Gaza. Maybe allowing them to construct a port. I am not sure how, but we should be more active. Israel offered Gaza a deal - a complete disarmament of Hammas in Gaza in exchange for a complete support and reconstruction of Gaza, with Israel's assistance. I think it's a fair deal. I also wish to remind that Gaza have a border with Egypt. Right to travel - they can get through there. The West Bank is a more complicated issue, since there are the settlements. In addition - the main reason the Fattah is still in charge and not Hammas, is that they rely on Israel to sruvive. The cooperation between Palestinians and Israeli security forces is what's keeping Fattah alive. I think that when a time for an agreement will come, most of the settlements will be disbanded and Israel with withdraw its forces, forming a security line in the Jordan Valley, to prevent external forces (such as ISIS) from getting from Jordan into Palestine. This, unfortunately, will not happen while there is a complete mistrust between the sides. By pointing only at Israel, you (or others) are being wrong. Regarding the majority based on religion (hence - Israel being the home state for Jews) - I am sorry, but both history and the present taught us that unless we'll be in charge of our faith - no one else will. You can check out what happened to Jews who lived in Arab countries after Israel declared its independence. You can check what happened to Jews in Palestine, in 1929, under British mandate. There was no Israel nor occupation. Jews were the minority and being as such - were massacred. But leave the Jews aside - you can go an check what's going on with the Christian population in this region. We are talking of Arabs, of course, but it didn't stop the Muslim Arabs to commit hostile acts against them. Don't take my word - just google it up. Religious conflicts are still present here. Islam is fighting Christians and Jews, while at the same time, the Shiite and Sunni fight amongst themselves. So, yes. I think that unless a Jewish state will exists - Jews will be under constant threat. Just as we were up until 1948.

1. You are right. I elaborated a bit more on a different reply. With you permission - I will paste it here There are no 2nd class citizens here. Really not. I can start with throwing facts - there are almost 20 non-Jewish parliament members, out of 120. There are about 60 Arab judges, one of them is in the supreme court. There are no restrictions no the Arab population - an Arab can be a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, a policeman, whatever you'd like. I work in the city of Ramla. Ramla is a city with a mixture of Arab and Jewish population. There are Arab students in the school I teach in. They are not treated any differently than the Jewish pupils. Both "sets" of pupils hang out together and form a regular friendly relationship. This is not something I "read" or "heard of". This is something from my day to day life. In the past I played football for a team called "Beitar Oranit". 5th division - a crappy team (as I am a crappy left back), but which combined players from Oranit (a Jewish town) and Kefar Kasem (an Arabic town, adjacent to Oranit). The gaffer was Arabic and we player in Kefar Kasem. As I always say - there are always things to improve, but all in all, I think that Arab minority in Israel (just as other minorities) enjoys free life. There are almost no things holding them back from achieving anything they would like. Internal surveys, just as figures and numbers, show that the younger generation is trying to blend in, taking part in community civil service (instead of drafting. Still, they can draft to the IDF if they wish to) and most of the appreciate the benefits of living in Israel, in complete contrast to the other Arabs, throughout the middle east. 2. I completely agree. If publications are right, both Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, former prime ministers of Israel, offered the Palestinians about 97% of the occupied territories, to establish their Palestinian state on. If these numbers are right (and I see no reason to think they are not) - I don't think Israel can make any further move towards our "discomfort" zone. Olmert even agreed on turning Jerusalem into in international city, as a part of this agreement. I have to be honest and say that it's unlikely the Israeli public would have agreed to that, but it didn't come to this, as Abbas rejected it on the spot. You can google this up. It's not hard to find. Even in "The Guardian"'s website and "The Guardian is not a pro-Israeli newspaper. You cannot make peace with one side asking things and in return all they offer is to "accept our existence in the 1948 borders", and I won't even start into getting into the complete refusal of all solutions for the Right of Return. As long as this demand exists - nothing can be achieved .No one will accept it. No one will accept tens of thousands of Palestinians getting into Israel. I hope this clarified my opinion up a bit.

First and foremost - I am not a supporter of Bibi. I think he is a bad leader, especially due to his internal politics which are based on division and separation. I never voted for him, nor I'll ever will. Still - he is not surrounded by "band of fanatics". True, there are some extreme clowns by his side, but they are making a lot of noise, and don't have that much of an influence on things over here. This is a problem with Twitter and Facebook and so - people who are not worth our time, get a lot of room to state their crappy ideas. 1. There are no 2nd class citizens here. Really not. I can start with throwing facts - there are almost 20 non-Jewish parliament members, out of 120. There are about 60 Arab judges, one of them is in the supreme court. There are no restrictions no the Arab population - an Arab can be a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, a policeman, whatever you'd like. I work in the city of Ramla. Ramla is a city with a mixture of Arab and Jewish population. There are Arab students in the school I teach in. They are not treated any differently than the Jewish pupils. Both "sets" of pupils hang out together and form a regular friendly relationship. This is not something I "read" or "heard of". This is something from my day to day life. In the past I played football for a team called "Beitar Oranit". 5th division - a crappy team (as I am a crappy left back), but which combined players from Oranit (a Jewish town) and Kefar Kasem (an Arabic town, adjacent to Oranit). The gaffer was Arabic and we player in Kefar Kasem. 2. The Palestinian issue, however, is a completely different thing. I, for one, support the two-state solution. The problem I have is that it seems that Palestinians do not support it... If their intention if to get back to 1948 - it means the end of the Jewish state. This is not something I can agree to. If they wish to fulfill the right of return - this means the end of the Jewish state and no sane Israeli will agree to that. When you add Abbass recent ramarks regarding the Jews being partly responsible for the holocaust, you come up to an understanding that at this time, a solution cannot be agreed upon. They want more than we are willing to give, regardless of right or left wing parties. No one in his right mind will sigh a treaty which will diminish the Jewish majority in Israel. So we are kinda stuck.

In most cases, I spend my time in Villatalk going over the Jokes thread, or checking up on the funny pics. In past cases, when I took part in a debate concerning Israel, it was rather difficult for me, as an Israeli, to try and maintain a normal discussion as I was subjected to a lot of ill tempered remarks. English is not my first language and I see no point in getting into arguments with British people who try to tell me they know what's going on here, while I am blind to reality, or racist or whatever. This brought me to back up as I was no match to their zeal. As you can see - I don't hide my national identity and I am not trying to bring up any extra smart approaches to trick someone into changing his mind. I am, whether you believe it or not, an Aston Villa supporter for more than 20 years, who happens to be an Israeli. Steve Staunton was (and still is) my favorite player of all time, I try to follow the team as closely as I can from here and I have no spare time nor the intention to try and use this platform to convert Villa's supporters into Israelism.

Yes. Israeli HASBARA specifically targets Aston Villa supporters. This is a sub group we, as a nation, pay a lot of attention to.

They tried to show they can shoot at us. It cost them dearly.

First of all - these questions are irrelevant to Iran. Iran is not targeting Israel for its control of the West Bank and so on. The middle east, if you'd like, is not a region which Iran should get a foothold in. Still they do. If your questions where honest in a quest to better understand my opinion and things here - I would gladly answer. Since my experience here proves that I need to deal with a lot of misleading ideas and false claims - I am extremely cautions when I am to deal with the Palestinian situations in this place. I respect the opinions of most people here, but when people here are trying to tell me how things are over here, it makes the whole discussion pointless. Israel is a very complex country, which sits in the middle of an extremely complex neighborhood, but after only 70 years of existence, we managed to build a country which if good to live in, with a democratic way of life and freedom to us all. This is the complete opposite to any other country here, from Tunisia, through Turkey to Iran and Saudi Arabia. True, there are things which can be done better, but I find it hard to believe that any other country in world could achieve that in 70 years. So, just let me know if you wish for me to answer. If so - I will gladly hold this discussion.

OK, so let's see 1. I don't think Israel will force a conflict, unless it will become the last resort. Israel have no motive to get into a war with the Iranian forces in Syria, as long as they are not making any active plans to attack us. The people here are not too keen on war. As long as the conflict is being constrained to aerial attacks every once in a while - it'll be accepted and supported (due to the fact that Iran is trying to boil things up). I find it very hard to believe this support will continue of any massive ground war will commence. The issue with Hizbollah is quite the same - as long as they do not attack us or actively threaten Israeli borders - I see no way for the government to start a war. Quite frankly, I hope that Hizbulla will aim their interests towards recovering Lebanon rather that harassing Israel. It will, eventually, cost Lebanon dearly. 2. All actions here are being coordinated with Russia. The last massive aerial assault was, as reported, with the silent approval of Russia. I don't think that it's in Russia interests for a major conflict to erupt. They need their holding in Syria, their harbor in Tartus and that's it. A major conflict will harm their interests. Turkey is irrelevant at the moment. Their president made himself irrelevant and I cannot see any way for a conflict with them, so far away from their borders. All in all - the Golan makes a hell of a defensive line and I don't think there's anyone, at the moment, threatening Israel's existence. Not at least Iran will get their nukes. 3. Israel and the Israelis chose not to get involved in the Syrian civil war, as most of us agree there are no "good guys" over there. The Shiite forces will most probably become proxies of Iran, but thanks to Hizbullah, we are quite used to this situation. Hope I got it all.

If Israel would have wanted to bombard Iran - they (or should I say "We") could have done it long ago. There was a very harsh debate over this matter some years ago. The majority of Israelis, alongside key government members at the time (Ehud Barak is one of them, alongside Meir Dagan, former head of the Mossad) were against this operation and as you can all see - it didn't come true. Iran is a huge problem. Iran is currently unsettling the entire region, boldly claiming their aim is to vanquish Israel and actively doing things to show they are serious. They brought Israel and Saudi Arabia close together. If I recall correctly, Tunisia cut all relationship with Iran last week due to their efforts for creating internal turmoil. Syria (partly) and Lebanon are under Iranian Control, as do Iraq, or at least parts of it. The rapid expansion and their bold claims against Sunni and Jewish regimes in the area is not something anyone can take lightly. I wish to remind you all that Israel had good diplomatic relations with Iran up until the Islamic revolution. For Israel, the ultimate goal is for the Iranian government to collapse, as there is no real quarrel between the states. Iran is not an Arabic state, there are no past wars and no occupied territories for the Iranians to "free". And still, most of their efforts are directed towards Israel, including the development of the nuclear weapons. As an Israeli, I am deeply concerned and I am for any relevant action that will put a stop to their ambitions. If Trump will manage to bring Iran to its knees due to their deteriorating economic state - I have no problem with it.

This comes down to the demise of the US in this region. Obama's unclear foreign policy brought this entire region (mainly the Saudis and Jordanians) into the current situation. The Saudis were dependent of the US and while they see the Iranians enjoying the backing of the emerging Russian empire, the American presidents mumbles and letting this mayhem go on uninterrupted. Unless Obama foresaw this and made his decisions while taking such outcome as a realistic option, I can't really understand what's going on. The Russian influence will become stronger with time, taking this region back to the good old 70's... Dictatorships don't do too well with unstable times and this is just that. Unlike democracies (such as ours), dictators tend to take crazy steps when times become crazy. Still, I can't see a full scale war between the Saudis and the Iranians (especially due to the fact US will block it), but instability is bound to be a part of the life in the Persian gulf and its surroundings for the years to come.

Sure, let's throw some dull cynic remarks at the one with the Israeli flag as an avatar. I guess you will be able to run these smart lines with the ISIS diplomats you'll engage, trying to come to an "agreeable" solution. I don't appreciate the cynicism. ISIS, whether you like it or not, is a deadly organization which aim is plain and simple - establish a Caliphate. Sure - you can try negotiating with them. Please let me know when you'll be able to contact their "ambassadors" or minister of foreign affairs, to try and begin these negotiations. I guess those poor sods who needed to ventilate some of the pressure by shooting in Paris will appreciate your thoughts. Or maybe those who were captured in Iraq and told how they were using blunt knives to decapitate their prisoners, in order to enhance the suffering of those dying anyway. They only need someone to understand their motives for such atrocities. They are not to blame and even if we do blame them - we can fix them! We can talk them out of it. Words, after all, worked wonders throughout human history. Many atrocities and vile acts were prevented by words. You can blab as much as you'd like. This will not change the fact that an army of Islamic terrorists runs amok, committing horrible atrocities at Muslims (so horrible that even Israel dare not commit!!!) while fighting the Syrian "lawful" regime, which already bombed and killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens (dropping barrels filled with explosives! This is so vile that even the satanic Israelis never took such acts)... ,and you think this can be won by using words. Sure - you know it all. The number of Syrian and Iraqi casualties are staggering, but... nah. Let's talk - this will make everything better! I am sure they'll opt to talk with you just as soon as they'll finish raping those 8 year old Yazidi girls. Then they'll be more... willing to listen to reason. I guess that's why up to this point ISIS killed people on European soil than on a Israeli one, despite Israel sitting on the doorstep of this mayhem. That is why there are many more Europeans recruiting ISIS that Arab Israelis. There is nothing like an innocent 18 year old Austrian who look fondly at these freedom fighters, who will beat her to death a couple of months later for trying to escape. We know this territory. We learned how things work here and that is why there is a unity between Jews and Arabs here in regards to ISIS. We, whether you like it or not, have long realized that words work only in some regions. The middle east is not one of them.

Well, as an Israeli, this is an issue we are quite use to deal with... unfortunately. You can't play the game by the rules ISIS set, since you will not be able to do a thing. Again, this is the same issue Israel deals with during our annual rumble with Hammas, and ISIS, just as Hizballa, learned that the western civilizations look differently upon things. This is common way nowadays - just hide your soldiers/rockets inside a village an let the westerners explain why can't they do a god damn things to stop you. In other words - when dealing with Islamic terror you have to think differently. There is no "code of conduct" and the Geneva convention does not apply.

I am skimming through this and I find it interesting to see how people try to force their perception on reality. Negotiating with ISIS, trying to figure out what would be the thing which will appease them... leave what those ISIS loonies say - we know better. The intentions of ISIS are very clear. Unlike what we're used to call "diplomacy", they don't talk themselves to doing nothing for the sake of keeping everything at bay. They do exactly what the say - from military attacks, through horrifying executions (great for propaganda) to ... well... there is no "to" as there is no limit to their deeds. You can't solve this diplomatically. They only way to stop them is to bomb them, cut their funding (mainly through oil) and try to use the local tribes (and the Kurds!!!!) to make their moves against ISIS. Bombing? Fighting? Hell yeah! These are the means which brought an end to the Nazi regime. There is no reason these will not be a part of toppling the ISIS loonies.

Israel, as seem from the outside, is a hell lot different than what it seems from the inside (or, for a matter of fact, what it really is). The current government is and should be labeled as a right wing government. Still, as things work here - this government is doing practically nothing. Pushing for "peace" is not even an option at this moment and all in all - Israel and its government (which I do not like...) are well aware that the best strategy is to sit tight and let the Sunni and Shiite loonies cleanse one another (at least we're not blamed at that as well...). So what if opportunity arises? Well, war, especially since 1973, is a delicate issue in Israel (at this stage I expect many to state how we butcher the Palestinians and apartheid and so on. Save it). As I said - there is a huge difference between how we are perceived and how things really work here. A government, even a right wing government, will not wage war on Hizballa/Lebanon without a clear Casus Beli. This will just not work, as it will drag and internal uprising against it and eventually will bring the downfall of the government. If Hizballa attacks - that's one thing (as it did on the second Lebanon war) but at long as this does not happen - Israel will not make any major move in Lebanon. o not forget one things - Israel had its chances to obliterate Lebanon and you must be aware to the fact that Israel posses the technology and ability to do so. But Israel did not. Israel didn't even draft all of its reserve army, as Israel do not see a point in trying to obliterate Hizballa. Israel, unlike Russia, does not carpet bomb, therefore the only way to eliminate Hizbulla is through a full scale war with a full draft of its reserve army, which will halt the entire economy here, and bring hundreds of KIAs. This is just not worth it since Hizballa does not pose a real threat on Israel's existance. Israel prefers a weakened Hizballa, considering you have no idea what will take Hizballa's place when its gone. As for ISIS and Jerusalem - I guess they have their intentions. I seriously doubt their ability to make this a reality. If they will try to make any move in the Golan, they will run into the might of the IDF, which is far superior than anything they ran into up until now (leave the Russians aside). Frankly, it will be a crazy move from their part as it will bring the strongest military force in the middle east into action and this will definitely hamper any plans they have in Syria, Iraq or Jordan. One might like it or not, but the sheer fact that Israel chose to annex the Golan Heights and not to secede them to Syria - is what keeps us relatively safe at the moment. If the Golan was under Syrian control, ready and open for ISIS troops - I have no doubt Israel would have to reconquer it to protect the Galilee from the Islamic loonies running amok over there.

I think that neither Israel not the Palestinians are big issues in this whole ISIS issue, as ISIS poses no real threat to Israel and quite frankly - as long as Jordan is on its feet and the cooperation between the Israeli and Palestinians security forces continue - I don't think ISIS poses a risk to the Palestinians as well. Syria is a whole different issue, mainly because there is no such thing anymore. This is why the IDF main goal at the moment is to prevent the Golan heights becoming a focal point for terrorists trying to inflict damage to Israel, while at the same time making sure Hizballa will not be able to get advanced weapon supply from the Syrian regime or the Iranian forces. In any case - whenever this whole thing will be over, the entire region formerly known as "Syria" will be in rubble. It'll take them years to get back to where they were before (and that wasn't a great situation to begin with). At any point - I can't see Israel attacking Hizballa, even if Syria will fall to the Sunni rebels. Israel is wise enough (at this point) to stay out of this intra-muslim havoc. An attack on Hizballa might cause an effect which will shift the focus from ISIS and Syria towards Israel and Lebanon. I see no reason for this to happen.

Wipe clean was a bad choice of words, perhaps. The Muslim congregations have to deal with these bad seeds, alongside state security forces. The lack of willingness to deal with this problem head-on allowed it to grow and prosper and the results are quite clear, unfortunately. If there are "bad Muslims" it needs to be said and to be dealt with. If a certain Imam calls for the destruction of western civilization or any other call of that sort - he needs to be dealt with. This does not mean "kill him now", but to be aware, not to ignore him, his words or his followers. The same goes for any other religion. Still, at this point, Islam produces way too much killings and killers who explain their killing with "Islam". I agree this is a difficult task. This does not justify ignoring it or worse - try to contemplate and find explanations to "ease the burden off the backs of the terrorists". I am sure they had their reasons. Great reasons from their point of view - but it changes nothing. Something or someone (or both) pushed these men from the point of being mad at something to the point of "let's take some rifles and deal with it". This something or someone is where the efforts should be focused.

The age of political correctness and the tendency to see terrorists as "ignorant grunts who kill for something the western world did to them" bring havoc to Europe. This approach hurts everyone - whether Christian or Muslim - mainly because it does not allow any of the two to approach the problem directly. The problem is not "Islam". The problem is with what some of the Islamic factions do in the name of Islam. But instead of dealing with these factions and their horrendous deeds, everyone just keep looking for excuses or just avoid dealing with this, just for not being accused as "Islamophobic". I don't get it. This is wrong in so many levels. These three terrorists did not drop from the sky. No warlock conjured them out of nowhere. They lived and prospered as a part of a group, a faction. This group or faction needs to be condemned and wiped clean. Not because of Islam - but because they see Islam as an excuse to take other people's lives. It's that simple.

What that it was really the CIA i heard that one as well And there was someone on a roof top who filmed it, who people are claiming was Israeli therefore obviously the Mossad are involved as well. Damn!!! They're on to me!!

Are you certain about that? I've just finished watching S02E06. This show is brilliant. Just brilliant. I just love it when you can't really guess what's going on or, better yet, what is doing to happen. Every time I thought I was on to things - they managed to surprise me. It is not fair to end the show like that! They have to make a final season to end this properly. Just as they did on "Fringe". Although the rating was dropping - they've created a short 5th season just to allow a proper closure.

is the book about David who by any other definition committed a Holocaust on his enemies in order to return to Jerusalem ? You must be referring to a different book, as David did not "return" to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was under Hebrew control since Joshua took Canaan. In any case, despite you using the term "holocaust" quite freely, I still hope the Human rights committees and organizations will not set their sights on actions which took place some 2000 years ago. Just think of the Egyptians response when Pharaoh will be summoned to Hague to stand against holocaust accusations, as the one you just brought up...

Brumerican - I do not expect you to accept all I say and you are entitled to have your own thoughts and opinions. Still - you have to bare in mind that I conduct this in a language which is not my first, therefore - things come out with WWAAAYYY too many words. I assure you if we would have this in Hebrew - a couple of lines were all that I needed, but unless I'll be given the time to teach you all of our alphabet - give me some slack here.

I think you are being quite disrespectful to someone who has been one half of a very interesting discussion over the last few pages. He has been very patient putting forth an Israeli point of view in the face of an often hostile Villatalk crowd so there is no need to be rude. It seems he is just saying that he is culturally Jewish but not religious, in the same way that many atheists in the west will still celebrate Christmas and Easter festivals without being Christians or even Pagans. I thank you for this post

I think that the main problem preventing me from explaining myself thoroughly is the fact I have to use English rather than Hebrew... I understand your difficulties to understand my point. After all, there are several religious beliefs and Jewish is one of them. That is perfectly right. So what makes me, us, gather under the Jewish flag without being religious Jews? There are several reasons, but I think the most important one is the fact that even though the power of religion decreased with time, and even though the modern times saw the uprising of rational thought, philosophy and science - not to mention human rights and the power of the individual: at the end, a certain person was persecuted only because his ancestors were Jewish. This happened in western Europe, this happened in eastern Europe (especially in Ukraine), this happened in Arab countries in the middle east and this happened in the British mandate of Palestine, during the Arab revolts. All this, at the end, brought many of the Jews to realize that it does not matter whether they consider themselves to be religious or not. It does not matter whether they see themselves as "Syrians", "Polish" or "Germans" (many of the German Jews who were killed by the Nazis fought for Germany in WW I). Nothing really matters -at the end - you are considered a Jew. Nothing more and nothing less and due to this - we will never be completely safe, regardless of our level of belief or nationality. This allowed the most religious Jews of Poland and Russia gather under one flag with the most secular of Jews, whose connection with Jewishness is zero. One thing was made clear after WWII - God is someone you are happy to have on your side, but he cannot really help unless an army stands next to him to help him out

This is not an oxymoron, as a person does not have to follow religious beliefs to be declared a member of a specific religion. This fact was made very clear by all who persecuted the Jews in recent times - especially the German Jews. The Nazis showed no interests in the fact many of them declared themselves as "Atheists". I am a Jew, first and foremost, because my mother is Jewish. This is how things work, just as a baby is Muslim only because his father is. I can renounce my religion, but I see no point in doing so - the past beliefs of my ancestors, the history of the Jewish people - I am part of it and I will not give it up, even if it is not only a thing of a culture. As I said - most of the people who signed the Israeli deceleration of Independence were not religious Jews. Israel was formed not because of religious reasons, but mainly as a response to the terrible trauma our people went through in WWII. This is why it took place only in 1948 and not before that. The Jewish people, the Zionist movement, saw the Jewish state as the only solution for keeping the integrity of the Jewish people and to keep them safe, as the governments of Europe proved they are incapable of doing so. So yes - Israel holds some sort of a mixture between the old roots of the bible and the new, modern life, as nations, people, seek to live in a place of their own, being responsible for their destiny.