Big_John_10

We must be a laughing stock to other fans. What team goes from 16th to 5th in 3 seaons and the fans have genuine reasons for concern right now. Every team outside the top 4 would trade places with us right now and yet some of us can't be happy with this. Since when is 5th place in one of the hardest leagues in the world not good enough for us? This view certainly fits in with my one eyed category. My view is that throwing away our best chance at champions league for a long time to a string of failures to win, despite dropping out of our european push to concentrate on the league is a genuine cause for concern. So not being good enough to break the top 4 and challenge for the uefa cup is a genuine cause for concern? I've said it before but ridiculous expectations are the cause for alot of peoples negativity which is something the club and the manager can't do anything about.

I think so. I'll check later for you to make sure. Make sure you post it though, bacause I wasn't aware of the fact.. I've just checked and yes it turns out we are still in 5th. Amazing isn't it?

We must be a laughing stock to other fans. What team goes from 16th to 5th in 3 seaons and the fans have genuine reasons for concern right now. Every team outside the top 4 would trade places with us right now and yet some of us can't be happy with this. Since when is 5th place in one of the hardest leagues in the world not good enough for us?

I think so. I'll check later for you to make sure.

BG while I'm not as critical of O'Neill as Jez and I agree with you that by and large he has done a very good job so far that doesn't mean I agree with everything he does or every decision he makes. It seems to me that too many people on here see any points made in critism of O'Neill as being anti O'Neill and I don't think that is the case. There are things O'Neill has done lately that I really don't agree with but I still wouldn't swap him for anyone else. You're right, i've read plenty of posts of people which criticise the manager and i feel no need to respond and i can see where they are coming from. Then there are the small group on here who have pretty much been on the managers back for as long as i've been reading VT, so forgive me when i think some people actually do show an anti O'neil attitude. I did answer it, i think he's good at signing players. If you think he is very very average at signing players do you believe then he is exceptional at all other aspects of football management? Or do you believe the premier league is so weak any team with average players can finish in the top 6 two seasons in a row?

And there are plenty who don't do fine.

Yes that's why we are going to get back to back finishes because the manager is very very average at signing players What you really mean is the manager is very very average at bringing in players you want. Because no one could really believe that a manager going from 16th to 5th in 3 seasons and achieving back to back top 6 finishes could really be very very average at signing players. So what is the reason behind not winning in the league since February? If the league had started on Feb 1st we would have been 2nd bottom now, is that the sign of a manger good at signing players or average? If its being tired how do you help tired players? As i said above if MON is not average at signing players, is he good at everything, what are his weakness? Do you think MON is excellent at signing players or average? What a ridiculous point, i'm sure i could pick a date when the season should start and finsih and show we could have won it. We've had a bad spell, it usually happens to most teams during the course of a season. Are you demanding that after 2 seasons we should have had a squad that won't go through a bad spell during the course of the year? I think results speak for themselves and our position in the league this year and last shows he is good at signing players. I believe sometimes his substitutions and tactics in certain games can be wrong but no manager gets it spot on every single time. As long as the overall situation is good i see no point in moaning about every little mistake he's ever made. For me 5th is the easily the best we could have hoped for after 3 seasons in charge, that's where we are in the league. If you think it's easy to achieve that as well as back to back top 6 finishes with average players then you must believe MON is a genius with every other aspect of football management.

Yes that's why we are going to get back to back finishes because the manager is very very average at signing players What you really mean is the manager is very very average at bringing in players you want. Because no one could really believe that a manager going from 16th to 5th in 3 seasons and achieving back to back top 6 finishes could really be very very average at signing players.

Good job he was given a chance to win all those trophies wasn't it.

If some fans could stop for a second and switch off their i want everything right now mentality then they might just realise this is the case. I'm stunned someone wants him gone for finishing 6th two seasons in a row. It's laughable, i'm just glad the majority can see sense and i'm confident randy is also a sensible man and MON will be given the chance to do his job.

Dear friend, with the money he have spent would you expect any worse than top 6? look what DOL did with almost no Money under Doug DOL did well with a team he inherited, then the more he made that team his own the worse it got. I keep reading about the money spent and how we should expect nothing less but spending big money hasn't made spurs and newcastle consistent and it hasn't pushed man city on. Also have a look at the clubs fighting relegation at the moment, do you think if they spent similar to what we have over the last 3 seasons they would be a consistent top 6 side? I certainly don't. Money is clearly an important factor but unless you've got a manager to use it right and then manage what he buys correctly you won't get very far.

You're right, don't know why i thought this was his 4th season in charge. This just makes it even more laughable that people aren't satisfied with the position we are in and the progress we have made.

What a pathetic attitude. Who cares what names we sign as long as we do well. We are in 5th place with these signings that you seem to despise so much.

So you believe 16th to 5th in 4 seasons should be the absolute minimum requirement for him as a manager? If a team like blackburn or sunderland spent £90 million in the next 4 years do you think they would break the top 4? I think 16th to 5th in 4 seasons is the best we could hope to achieve. He had to clear out a squad only going one way while at the same time build his own team and help us progress, also his first season he didn't have a summer transfer so he had to start with what was left for him. Since MON arrived has a premiership team improved as much as villa have? And you can throw the money he's had back at me but spurs, newcastle and man city have spent loads in the same period of time and it hasn't helped them progress.

I believe 5th place is the best possible finish we could have hoped for at this stage in the MON and Randy master plan. We look like we could achieve this so why on earth would anyone not want him here next season. From what he has done so far he deserves more time to try and get us into that top 4. Anyone thinking and demanding we should be there by now is crazy.

Would love to do running more often but i suffer with hamstring problems and after i've played football at the weekend i can barely walk for a couple of days after. Might have to wait for the summer and start.

I wonder if everton fans will start giving moyes shit and claim that 6th place would be failure?

Also i know he didn't get a decent send off but i hope he doesn't come back and be presented at a game. Over the last few years i think only paul mcgrath, ron saunders and the 82 squad have been presented to the crowd, i think we should keep that honour for true club legends.

Much closer to flop than hero IMO. We spent alot of money on him and only really got about a season and a half of good play from him. Never quite understood why he seemed to be such a fan favourite.

I'm sure it will be NRC. I can't believe some would consider giving it back to barry. The captain has to be someone who wants to be here, if he shows that in the summer by signing a new contract then fair enough but lets not forget if had his way he'd be wearing a liverpool shirt this season.

can't believe how many votes DOL got.

General i was just wondering if the takeover at man city will have any effect on our 5 year plan? Do the board still think it's possible for us to break into the top 4 over the next few years now that man city seem to have chelsea like funds available to them?

It might not have taken a rocket scientist to figure out what needed to happen but there were plenty on here who predicted it wouldn't happen and that MON couldn't make it happen. I'll give it an 8, barry is still here, and we have improved in nearly all areas apart from upfront. We have a squad capable of cementing our position in the top 6 and providing a good run in europe.

I'm sure there are stats that show that NRC doesn't give the ball away as some like to make out.

It's a tough choice but someone has to be dropped because having NRC wide right just limits our ability to attack. I think it would be unfair on petrov if he was dropped as he has been playing well and i think it would be unfair on NRC as he has been asked to play out of position and still worked hard and played well. I know barry is a quality player but i'm leaning towards the idea of dropping the guy who doesn't actually want to be there. If barry had his way he would have been wearing a red shirt and trying to score past friedel today. I'd drop him and make him wait for a chance.