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The latter - at the type of numpty that says things like "oh, they'll just make us keep voting until we get the decision they want". Edit - Apologies if you thought the tone was accusatory, just thought it was worth adding the context around the 08/09 referendums.

You mean the one that was rejected and then renegotiated to act on the concerns raised by the rejection. Then, a referendum carried out following a manifesto pledge by the winning party in a general election to hold one, and accepted with a 67% / 33% majority. For something that's often wheeled out as an example of the EU's disregard for democracy, it strikes me as pretty darn democratic.

To quote Adam Bienkov: "So in summary one of Theresa May’s ministers has resigned in order to support her government’s policy after the prime minister whipped her own MPs to oppose her government’s policy in order to prevent a defeat to... her government’s policy"

As I said, what has changed from two years ago? All of that was also there in 2016 (resignations, possibly aside)

Hmm. What has changed? There is nothing that is now known that wasn't also known two years ago. Why was it understandable then but not now?

In other news, it sounds like all of the Rees-Mogg amendments are going to be unchallenged by the Government. Given that one of those is that there will be no Irish Sea border, we will thus have written into law: 1. That we are leaving the structures that mean we don't need a border (in the customs and standards sense of the word) 2. That there can't be a border on the island of Ireland. 3. That there can't be a border between Great Britain and Ireland. So we're basically writing into law that black is white and up is down.

Something that I only just twigged - Chris Heaton-Harris, the bloke who has replaced that quarter-wit Steve Baker at DexEU is that plum who wrote to to all the universities last year and demanded they send him all their course material on Brexit. For that Pete Townshend-style "book" he was writing. It really comes to something when you're replacing Steve Baker, and somehow you end up with someone who is even more of a nitwit.

Sounds good. And for the four years in between, everyone just shuts up?

Another minister gone. Don't worry though, it's not another simpleton who doesn't understand politics beyond GCSE level like the last load. "The minister for small business Andrew Griffiths has resigned from the Government after sending depraved social media messages to two female constituents.The contents of the texts will be revealed exclusively in tomorrow's Sunday Mirror.Married Griffiths, 47, the Tory MP for Burton, and Theresa May's former chief of staff, released a statement to the newspaper saying how sorry he was for what he has done" https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/business-minister-andrew-griffiths-quits-12918866 Conservative minister resigning in embarrassing sex scandal - it almost feels quaint and traditional by current standards.

"Piers, go get the guitar"

Where should we go for honest, unbiased reporting? (he asked with with a rising sense of dread...)

Poor Tony, he was doing his best.

Or, given he hasn't decided to hold a protest outside Villa Park that means he's indifferent to what's going on at the club at the moment.

Phew, turns out you don't need to. You must be very relieved.

How out of step do you think their opinion is? Is anyone pleased? Is there anybody who is getting what they were voting for two years ago, on either side? I'm not sure that the banks, just like everybody else, not jumping for joy is the smoking gun you seem to think it is. Not that it matters. There are two paths now, given a large number of the Conservative party won't vote for it. It gets further watered down (because it's an illiterate piece of nonsense in it's current form) to the point that nothing changes, otherwise Labour won't vote for it, and it fails. Or it stays as it is, the EU don't accept it (because it's an illiterate piece of nonsense in it's current form) and there is no agreement. They might as well save the time and just jump straight to whichever of those takes their fancy.

I think this Government has ably demonstrated that you don't necessarily need to make a choice between malice OR incompetence to explain their actions.

Release of the Brexit White Paper today. Raab stood up to deliver it, before being told that he couldn't as he hadn't made it available to MPs beforehand. So it took Raab slightly less than one minute in his new role in the Commons before screwing up so badly that the session had to be suspended. Good to see him continuing his predecessor's tradition of incompetent buffoonery.

I wonder if "starving-rats-eating-each-other-in-a-sack" should be added to the thread title...

The latter is that numpty who Corbyn threatened with legal action after Bradley accused him of selling secrets to the Soviets. And then got Tory donors to pay his way out of it. Clearly scared of the bog-dwellers of Mansfield voting him out if he doesn't look like he's doing something.

Today I heard three separate people talking about the song "Football's Coming Home". One of them was a sports journalist. I'd be tempted to take a loss to Croatia ahead of those people enjoying a win against Croatia.

I expect that he wrote a similar, lengthy letter telling her how much he loves the plan.

Latest big beast to go - Chris Green, MP for Bolton West has sent a letter to the Prime Minister resigning from his role as a Parliamentary Private Secretary because "Brexit must mean Brexit". So, the Government is toast now.

Apparently when Boris was busy resigning he was supposed to be hosting a summit of Balkan countries, dedicated to helping them learn better governance in order to prepare for EU membership. Lolz.

Then again, Cornwall voted to leave. So they can stew in their own pasty gravy, the big dummies.

If he gets to the final two, then no doubt. But that will need a sizeable minority of Conservative MPs to back him. And a lot of Conservative MPs absolutely hate Boris. The decision that will be put to the members will probably be something like Hunt vs Javid. Or Williamson vs Hammond.