Gringo

Indeed when liberties are so easily given up, people soon forget they had them

Yes it's all about personal choice. If I want to allow smoking in my pub, I should be allowed to do so. There could and should be regulation that enforces adequate signage that advises people quite clearly they are entering a smoker's environment and then they have the personal choice to go next door and complement each other on how nice their jumper smells.

Have a word with all the people who used to own little country pubs in galway and mayo that are selling up and turning them into flats. Your commentary is oppsed by the studies in places where the full impact of the ban has been felt.

well of all the big business's, Tobacco companies rank with the highest of them all .... look at teh settlements they did in the states and in some cases barely damaged profitability which 'big buisness' does this law suit Read the post - I think it talks about the drug companies - one UK drug company has a larger cash flow than the breweries combined. And as you say - if the smoking ban isn't affecting tobacco companies (as you state) then why would they be opposed?

Maybe because, as per your own comments, they don't understand the law. Private members clubs are not exempt. The only places that are exempt are "Palaces" - and associated establishments - so brenda can have the odd drag, and the MPs are OK cos they work in westminster palace, but everywhere else that is enclosed is included in the ban. Not that the police will be raiding the grandee's lounges where they are all sat in their big leather chairs, shovelling down brandy and puffing on their cigars. One rule for the powerful, one rule for the workers.

What an ignorant clearing in the woods.

Far, far too true! I resisted commenting last time this thread appeared, i think Gringo was saying much the same as i will, but i can't remember (and can't be arsed checking) so if it wasn't, apologies. It's not about whether you do or don't like smoking, it's about the subtle yet perpetual erosion of civil liberties that a blanket ban subjects the populace to. (and yes, drinking... or something else YOU participate in will be next) Sorry fergie69, but i didn't vote as in the context of the above statement i find both choices selfish. There, i stuck my fag-end in! Edit due to mis-identifying the OP Indeed, I would say that a similar poll about alcohol related illnesses could have the options: 1) Do you wish to ban alcohol; or 2) Do you wish to lower the age limit to 12 and give free alcopops to skulekids. Presenting a poll without real alternatives is not a way to start a debate. I too did not vote with such silly propositions.

I don't know - you're out of range for a few days and the anti-smoking fascists are back on the march, Just walked through the centre of town, covered in litter, all sorts of shite all over the place. But the govt are going to fine smokers for nubbing out fags whilst removing all the litter bins, Let's ignore the real problem and use it as a stick to whack a minority. What's the point of arguing - it started out as a health debate and when that one was lost it turned into how nice my sweater smells. You're all turning into wimmin. We have a law about not using mobiles whilst driving and can't be arsed to enforce it - but seen smoking with a fag and they'll be after you. If you can't drive a car and light a fag at the same time then you don't have the cognitive or spacial abilities to be able to drive. Fags don't distract, they don't ask you to make decisions, or talk to you (well apart from Trim's fags) - mobile phones do. Which is the real danger and which minority will be bashed by the stick? Why the hysteria? Who's making money out of this? Supermarkets, drug companies, wacko hypnotherapists. The health debate is lost - the odd study that has tried to show a causal link has been more than adequately rebutted but then is requoted to suit the stick bearers argument and extrapolated to just silly levels. Number of smokers consistently falling for 40 years. Incidence of lung cancer staying roughly the same. So the stick bearers make up something called smoke related diseases - things which may be caused by smoking but are also likely to be caused by other environmental factors. But bugger the research and working out whats going wrong, we've got a stick - let's hit someone. Spain have taken an intelligent approach to the "nice smelling jumper" wussies and constrained smoking to within certain establishments and enforced signposting of smoking and non-smoking areas. Result - smokers are happy, non-smokers are happy, anti-smoking fascists are marginalised. If in any argument, you are in agreement with patricia "I suck big businesses cock" hewitt, then there is a very large likelihood you are on the wrong side of the debate.

Bluse were welcomed back into the premiership with open arms

I think the "someone" was Mrs McClown.

Whilst sympathising with your situation I'm afraid your account can be discounted as you are not owning up to having been born within the sound of the bells. What register? If you are referring the aforementioned CIFAS - this is a cross industry body that all the subscribing bodies (all the banks and buil socs + the larger commercial lenders) subscribe. Thus it should contain a record of every address where fraud has been committed in the UK as a whole over the past 6 years. If their list runs to 1.5 million addresses, and 20% of cockernees (taking 8m as my starting point) gave 1.6m victims, or roughly 800k households (if the victims people cohabit and the lucky people avoid them). As that seems unlikely and making up a number (20%) of households affected by multiple fraud, would imply that there has been fraud at 1.3million landun addresses, so only 200k out of the other 25m houses in the country have suffered from fraud. In conclusion, it appears that I may have misdirected my post somewhat. The real point was the people who have produced the survey are lying out of their corporate american arseholes and trying to help spread the bollox of fear, so that people would buy their products. Precisely. And that's what symantec products and tony's white elephant won't "address" in the slightest. The majority of fraud is carried out by the people who are supposed to be custodians, but the burden of responsibility is pushed towards the individual.

Yes, but being of the manor, you're obviously not really patrick cousens and have robbed your new identity from some poor unsuspecting jellied eel muncher whilst he was trying to get out of aol's walled garden.

I know silly question, but it does have some background. Cockernees are fick Amongst my friends and family I can think of one person who has "had their identity stolen" and that happened 5 years ago and apart from receiving 20 mobile phone bills a month, caused him no problem at all. * the central fraud register (cifas) has less than 1.5 million unique addresses on their list; * 20% of london (assuming 2 people per household) = 800k. So is half of all fraud committed in london? Is the report bollocks conducted by parties interested in selling security products. Should the survey publishers be prosecuted for fraud? Or are cockerneess just simple stooges waiting to be turned over?

Penalty. But come on, it's the legend - would have called it a penalty if it had hit him on the backside.

I agree TRL, it appears that the fifth column have made a strike for power whilst hamstringing the chief libertarian with having to accept the requirements of one-for-all, all-for-one cabinet style responsibility. Did you notice those green icons light up as soon as you posted this TRL - they are watching you.

A lot of people with no espoused religious inclination getting het up over "sin", something with strong religious connotations.

click me

Hope they get moved to milton keynes just like Winbledon did.

Where is the option that says 'word removed'? Surely that should be compulsory on any poll to do with the purple nosed word removed.

Hi General, expanding on Mike's point above, it would be technically 'simple' to have an SMS-text message sent to a subscriber base on a Saturday morning with special offers for that days game - the target market would be the occasional attendees as opposed to season ticket holders, but the impulse purchase aspect might bring in a few more ticket sales. Of course such tactics will only be required for the first year until we start sticking up 'Sold Out' notices for every match.

Ah, the barry fry skule of squad building.

"It’s been a long December and there’s reason to believe maybe this year will be better than the last" Up the Villa Up the General UP VT - Happy new year one and all.

Merry Xmas General, and thankfully (with a great debt of thanks to you and your team) we can look forward to a happy New Year.

Years of being conditioned by Private Eye.

They (proper papers, not comics) are a very good way of being informed, IMO. They're portable, contain news and analysis, opinon, images, cover a wide range of subjects, both national and international. Some of, if not most of, the best journalists writ for national papers. They often challenge the orthodoxy of whoever is in power in way that TV and radio doesn't, and they are better edited than lot of the internet. And the Guardian has a typeface hand crafted by a Villan of some repute. Papers are great. This is all true. The TV only tells you the bits that suit. The internet will only answer questions that you ask. Newspapers are the most important tool in a free-speech based society. First the establishment outlawed them, then the establishment tried to tax them out of business till they went underground and facing defeat the establishment bought the papers out. The media in general is going through a period of extensive consolidation that damages the product, centralises ownership and weakens free speech. It's happening in TV - NTL going after itv and sky blocking it. We have 57,912 channels and three operators. It's killed local news reporting - three groups own 95+% of the local newspaper market - the evening mail shows how far standards have fallen - it is often no better than the free bromsgrove advertiser used to be. Stories of inconsequence and a severe lack of news local or national. The radio industry is also on its way to decimation. Local radio now consists of heartfm and galaxy trash. The communications act of 1987 liberated the markets and the act of 2003 introduced further deregulation and loosening on rules of conglomeration and cross-ownership. Instead of increasing variety and both acts saw an decrease in diversity of ownership with a few companies dominating the stage and increase in market share for the bbc. The response of the industry to this failure to compete is to call for a reduction in the remit of the bbc. The response of the regulator is to call for further deregulation of the market - the policy that created the mess in the first place. Sorry, did I go a bit off topic there?