allani

Again I could genuinely be forgetting a key point here - but wasn't the only person who said that the preferred choice wasn't RDM Hollis? If so then a couple of things strike me: (1) Hollis is not a football man and never pretended that he was - although there were other people involved in the process who were (although I don't think we know who the football people preferred and just assume that Hollis was taking about a unanimous preference of the "committee") and (2) Hollis and the others were not appointed by Xia and so their preference might have been influenced by other conditions that the guy who did hire them had - even after he'd left (that Xia didn't). Maybe their preference was Pearson because he wanted a lower salary / was prepared to work with a smaller transfer kitty than RDM was - which was No 1 priority given to them by Lerner - but Xia didn't think that this mattered as he was prepared to spend more money on the manager and players and so had a different priority. If that were the case - then the decision making is less about ignoring the advice of other people and more about a different application of what the priorities should be? All complete conjecture on my behalf admittedly!! I'm just not sure that we can read too much into what advice Xia may or may not have ignored and / or why he ignored it (if did in fact do so). I would be much more worried if he appoints our next manager "against the advice" of his team - as then something really has gone wrong given that this time around he would have appointed them and hopefully agreed on the priorities with them up front!

@mykeyb - I think he was under contract at his previous employer until 1st September (which potentially meant that nothing could be officially announced until his previous contract had expired)? That would probably also mean that officially he couldn't work for us during that period - whether that meant that he could / could not do anything is another matter. In the past when I have been on "gardening leave" after having resigned to take up a position with another organisation - part of the agreement was that I was unable to do any work for my new company whilst on "gardening leave" but my old company did permit me to attend a couple of internal meetings prior to my official start (but I did need to get approval from them for that).

Is that right? I thought the managerial short-list was proposed by people appointed by Lerner because the process needed to start before the takeover was complete so that we would be ready for the season if there was a problem with the takeover? Presumably that will also have meant that Lerner would have had a say on the criteria required for making an appointment (just in case he had to pay for said manager or make good on any commitments if the takeover had fallen through)? I certainly don't recall the takeover being that far advanced that Xia rather than Lerner would have been making the board appointments (of the people who came up with the list). You could say that once the takeover was completed, Xia could / should have ignored the advice provided by the old regime and waited until he'd appointed his own team to re-define the criteria and re-start the process. But can you imagine the meltdown if we'd not appointed a manager until the end of July or beginning of August???!!! Maybe the fact that Xia has acted so quickly with the sacking is a sign that actually he was never completely satisfied that RDM was the right option but just the best of those presented to him at the time (or that his DOF has advised him that things weren't going to work out)? I guess we will never know whether - if the takeover had happened before the end of the previous season and Xia had had his team in place from the start of the recruitment process - RDM would have made it onto the short-list and / or been the preferred candidate. I also remember the reaction about the whole Xia "blocking" transfers to SW and people being appalled that the owner should be making transfer decisions - are we now attacking him because he let the manager sign the players / positions he wanted to sign?? Surely we can't have it both ways? Again our DOF (who presumably is the football man who should be advising on such matters) was unable (legally / contractually) to start working with us until September 1st after the transfer market had closed. The football men appointed prior to then were either coaches (who you would hope might have some recommendations but shouldn't be defining strategy) or the CEO (whose main job should be in the running of the club off the field not on it). I'm not suggesting that all is perfect and some criticism is fair. But at the same time I think it is hard to blame all the failings during the summer on Xia given how little time he had. Sure there were mistakes made - but in many respects surely doing nothing until he had his "proper" team in place would have been an even worse mistake?? For me the jury is still out (and will be for a while - mainly because I was burnt so badly by Randy) but I don't think the things are going badly for want of intent or effort - which are two things we didn't get from Randy for quite a long time.

I agree almost entirely with this. Although maybe the second sentence should start with "Some of" :-) Four challenges that I think we face: 1) Our recruitment process meant that it will be difficult for any manager to pick a balanced team with the players that we have. Do we even have 4 midfielders? 2) Several of our players probably would look better in a balanced / functional side but one where they are the "junior" partner. I know we signed a lot of captains but that doesn't mean that they were the better players. Tish, Jedinak and maybe even Westwood would be pretty decent if they were the weaker of our two central midfielders. Unfortunately we need some of them to step up to be the better / senior player - and I'm not sure that they are able to (due to a mixture of, correspondingly; experience, age and ability). Exactly the same thing applies to central defenders too. Actually thinking about it - take Westwood out of that list - he's a League One player end of. 3) I think there are several players who would go AWOL at critical points during the match - regardless of what system / philosophy we adopt. 4) It is still 3 months before a new manager can add to the squad to address the problems with the three points above - a lot of points will have gone by then. I think Xia and we need to accept that and effectively refuse to make any judgements until February - almost regardless of results / performances. That could be a massive, massive challenge. Unless of course we get someone who can fire a rocket of people's ar$es for the next few games and can then be ruthless enough to axe them in January and convince Xia of the need to recruit heavily again (which could well mean shipping players on that only arrived this summer).

I whole-heartedly agree. Unless Clark stays until the end of the season (which he shouldn't) our next managerial appointment should not / will not be a massive statement of intent. Which is exactly what I was saying....

I think similar things were said about Leicester and Ranieri? Although I do tend to agree that this is the wrong time for such an appointment.

I think Howe needs to "do it again" at a bigger club before his ceiling can be raised. There have been plenty of managers who looked like being the "next big thing" only to lose their way or fail at the next level. David Moyes being the obvious recent example - but there are countless others. I very much agree on Dyche (bottom end Prem manager) - I'm yet to be convinced that Howe is much more than that (although I think there is a lot more to him). I think the fact that he is being talked about as a possible England manager just shows how crap English managers are (or maybe how few there are) - and that we need to follow the egg-chasers and recruit the best guy for the job regardless of where he comes from!! But I can't see any scenario under which either Howe or Dyche will be the next Villa manager. Actually that's not strictly true if we assume that Clark is the current manager - in which case it would be possible that he gets some great results this month and stays on to the end of the season (and we finish in a pretty good position) and in the meantime Bournemouth / Burnley fall back into the relegation zone (whilst still playing reasonably well to give confidence in the managerial aptitude) and go down. Then we might be in a good position to offer either a large salary increase and big(ger) transfer kitty to jump ship early in pre-season. With no Euros / World Cups this summer then hopefully they would be able to start the rebuilding process early and actually get most of their signings done and dusted ahead of the start of next season.

@Grasshopper - I think you have explained (better than I probably did myself) exactly where we are. However I think that Stage 3 "re-established in the PL" should probably read being in the top 6-8 clubs competing for Europe (I don't think Xia has a plan to just be in the PL - so maybe that should be a fall-back Stage 3b?). If Stage 4 "going for gold" is aiming for the Top 4 and competing in the Champions League. I would put Dyche and Howe in Stage 3b (which is why I don't think they are in the running either now or if / when we get promoted).

To be fair - if he markets us well in China and India that is still very achievable. Juventus became the biggest club in Italy in no small part due to the fact that so many families in Southern Italy had children who moved north to work for Fiat and so "adopted" the club of the Fiat owners. By a combination of opening academies / buying clubs in these countries and Xia's business empire employing lots of people in these countries - it would be possible for many people to "adopt" us as a club. However, at best we would probably be people's second team until we start competing for domestic honours and beyond. But I agree that it definitely won't happen whilst we are 19th in the Championship (or worse)!

That's a fair response - but if we were currently in the Top 10 (like we were when MON left) and looking to appoint a new manager then I don't think we would see either Howe or Dyche as a coup / statement of intent. Right now either would be a huge coup for us - but it isn't going to happen. They are both in a "no lose" situation - performing well above expectations at clubs with "low" demands - they are never going to give that up for a risk like Villa. So I would be astonished if Dr T persuaded either to sign up. But my point was more a "massive statement of intent" and I don't think that either are. They've done a brilliant job at small clubs and taken them into a fantastic position but in my opinion both are bottom half of the Premiership type managers. Xia has been talking about higher aspirations than that. So a massive statement of intent would be signing a manager who would be expecting to manage teams competing in Europe. Given where we are - I can't see that happening. So I think the best we can hope for is more likely to be to sign a manager to get us back in the Premier League and then sign up our massive statement of intent manager. In which case I don't think that Howe or Dyche make much sense as they are neither one nor the other. Neither would leave a comfortable job for a short term project with huge risk and I don't think that either are the long term MSOI solution either. If Xia had just stated that his aim was to get us back into the Premier League then they would be amazing appointments and would definitely signal that he was backing up his commitment. However, he hasn't. He has said that he wants to take us back to at least where we are 10 years ago (top 6/7 team playing in Europe - or at the time fielding weakened teams in Europe to try and challenge for 4th) and beyond. I just can't see Howe or Dyche doing that and so that is why amazing appointments as they might be - I don't see either as being a massive statement of intent.

I think I read somewhere (probably the BBC article about RDM being sacked) that we made £16m from transfers this season - so our net spend was £35m. That is a hell of a lot of money to be spending in the Championship. Trying to spend £100m plus (net) in our position would have been insane. Xia seems to have made the money available for the players that RDM wanted. I really don't think that you can question his commitment during the summer window.

"If there is any glimmer of chance of getting Dyche or Howe, they both fall in the middle and offer the best balance. Would be delighted with either and would be a massive statement of intent." Really? I think they might be decent appointments. But I would hardly think that the rest of the division would be thinking "oh **** - Villa are really going for it now". Also given Xia's stated ambition I hardly think that either will get us to the top levels of the Premier League. A massive statement of intent would be signing a manager who a team in the Top 10 of the Premier League would be happy with. A bit like the BFS at Newcastle. That is a massive statement of intent. I don't think we'll be getting a massive statement of intent this time around - as we are too much of a gamble (big difference between fighting for survival in the PL than in the Championship).

@Vive_La_Villa - exactly. If Xia really is as ambitious as he has said (and he really has the means to act on that ambition) it is crucial that we start building a team that keeps him interested to keep spending the bucks when it is needed (and it is definitely needed). If he gets a new manager who manages to p1$$ away another £50m without ending up with a balanced squad then we are in big trouble. If he gets a manager who can get it right then there is still a chance that the future can be very bright indeed.

As for RDM having one of the best squads ever in the Championship - have you looked at our midfield and defence? I don't think too many other promotion chasing teams would take too many of them - although I guess KC did get taken so... PS - That is not a defence of RDM at all. He was in charge of the recruitment over the summer and so the failure to strengthen adequately in those areas was his responsibility. I assume that it was also him telling people that Championship experience was one of the main criteria - something that I am not altogether a supporter of.

Exactly! We don't know who Xia would have wanted and / or selected for the shortlist had his people been in charge when the process started. Remember the takeover wasn't completed so I suspect that there were many parameters in place that were imposed by Randy. Of course now we'll be lucky to get anyone half decent as I don't suppose even the most confident of managers would expect that they would be able to turn this group of muppets into a promotion / play-off chasing team. 3 more months before we can bring in any defenders who know how to defend and / or midfielders who can pass and / or tackle is a long, long time. I suspect that it is possible to get our forwards to improve on the chance / goal ratio - but we've still got to get the ball to them in a position where they can score or help create a chance for someone else.

But wasn't that advice offered (or at least most vocally supported) by people who had been appointed by Randy and are no longer involved with the club? In which case maybe they were working more towards what Randy wanted from a manager than what Xia wanted? I think now that Xia has his own team in place then he will hopefully be better placed to discuss the various qualities needed for the manager and leave them to get on with finding the right person. And as an owner he absolutely has the right to specify the type of manager he wants - based on the type of football he wants to see played by his team and the importance of marketing the club around the world to build the support and interest that he clearly wants.

We can speculate all we like - but can anyone seriously make a good case for anyone joining us at the moment? We are a once big club in free fall. We are short of players in key positions and have no chance of doing anything about that for another 3 months. I do think that a manager should be able to sort out our issues up front. But our defence and midfield are particularly limited and you can't make below average players average (let alone good) overnight. I can't see any manager with any kind of ambition / track record to protect wanting to come here - even with the new owner in place. I can't see us getting to the play-offs this season so it is pretty much a lose / lose situation for any experienced manager coming in. Although as long as he doesn't get banned from football maybe Big Sam will be desperate enough to take any job on offer.....

Not on the team list tonight - not even on the bench. Shame as I was hoping we would get a chance to see him today. So we are starting with 4 strikers instead. :-) :-) :-) We're going to score one more than you!!!!

BBC text commentary saying that Gollini has been replaced by Nathan Baker in goal. Surely things aren't that bad??!!!

PS - and I am leaving it here for the moment. A quick look at the Championship table shows that we have played 5 and conceded 5. This is on a par with the 6 teams currently occupying the promotion and play off places. Meanwhile we have only scored 5 which is why we are where we are. Not unhappy at conceding a goal a game as long as we are scoring two! :-)

How old was Michael Owen when he played in the World Cup and scored THAT goal against Argentina??? At some point you need to give someone a chance... If he proves not to be up to it then move on. But I don't think we can make that call without giving him a decent shot at it.

I personally think we need to see him play with our chosen back 4 and our new front line before deciding whether it is too soon. If we are scoring two a game and he makes the odd mistake here and there surely it is better to be learning now and then being ready to take on the big boys next season? Of course if we are not scoring and continue conceding then the question mark may be valid. But Battara seems to be sticking his neck out (new job first recommendation) when it might have been easier to go with someone more well known. That suggests he is pretty confident that the guy deserves a chance. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind if he turns out to be rubbish. I just hope that at the end of the season it is me saying "told you so" rather than the other way around!! :-)

Battara seems to think he has the ability and his cv / experience suggests that he knows a thing or two about keeping. I think you need to give a player more than 4 matches before writing him off. That's "you" as in a collective of people rather than "you" as in you personally.

PS - I reserve the right to edit that prediction once the prescription drugs have worked their way out of my system and my new found positivity is identified as nothing more than a side effect...

I'd love to think that we'll get automatic promotion - which is light years away from my expectations of bottom half but outside the relegation scrap. But I think it will take a while for everything to come together so I'm not sure it is attainable. Plus with the number of people we have signed one or two are possibly not going to deliver quite what we expect (and will probably be replaced in the starting XI in January). So I'm hoping for the play-offs this season. Then I reckon we'll have a poor away leg first, come back to VP and deliver a spanking to get to the final. Then at Wembley one of our new strikers will miss a hat-load of chances and we'll scrape into a penalty shoot out. Aforementioned striker will then blaze his pen over the bar and look to have condemned us to another season in the Championship - only for Gollini to pull out three world class penalty saves on the trot and be paraded around the ground on the shoulders of his team-mates as we sneak back into the Premier League.