allani

Agreed. I think Ollie will score a lot more when we are not so dependent on him running the channels. He'll still do it - it is a massive part of his game and why he is successful. But with good options around him he can be more selective about where he goes and when. Emi is a big part of that - suddenly we have two slightly deeper options to pick out before resorting to playing a longer ball for Ollie to chase because Jack isn't available. A good fourth option will make that even better - whoever that may be. I think Jack and Emi will be playing far more slide balls for him to run onto that don't involve him straying outside the "tram lines" of the penalty box. And when he does go wider then hopefully we will have another person to fill that more central area that he has just vacated, whether that is Tammy or someone else altogether.

Jota?

Can you name one poster who has said that Tammy would be a good signing who has proposed moving Ollie to play on the wing? Anyone will do. This keeps coming up again and again and again. We don't play 4-4-2 and Ollie shouldn't be on the left wing. Yet not one person who has suggested that signing Tammy would be a good deal has proposed moving Ollie to play on the wing and almost all of us have said it would be 4-2-3-1(ish). I HAVE said that if Ollie plays in the CF role than his natural tendency is to drift left and run the channel - the heat map of his involvement last season as shared by @nick76 previously on this thread proves this. When he drifts left (because he is going to unless we train it out of him - in which case he loses half his effectiveness) then that allows Jack to either try and go wider to overlap or drift inside. But it also means Tammy can get himself on the centre circle waiting for a cross. But that is NOTHING like saying that Ollie should be moved to play on the left wing. There have been several proposals about how Jack, Emi, Ollie and Tammy COULD fit in the same side. None of them mention 4-4-2 and none of them mention playing Ollie on the left wing. Yet almost every counter argument says that no-one plays 4-4-2 anymore and we'd be mad to start Ollie down the left. Which kind of makes it irrelevant as a counter-argument because its arguing against something different to what has been said. It's a bit like having a discussion about deciding whether to go to Italy on holiday or stay in the UK and people saying that we should stay in the UK because they don't speak French. If people are going to raise objections to the proposal (which is fine) then please do read and understand what has been suggested before dismissing it. I've only had one person come back with a detailed counter-argument explaining why they don't think that those 4 would work together. He raised plenty of good points about his concerns, explained why he thought we needed a different type of player to join that quartet and having read his post I understood why he had those views and why we disagreed with each other. Which is fine and the whole point of a forum like this.

Errr....England.

How many times last season did we hear the immortal words: we, have, no, Plan, B. I maintain that a front 4 of Emi, Jack, Tammy and Ollie (with Bertie coming off the bench) give a manager so many different options but in terms of starting line up, starting formation and from the bench. So much of a threat going forwards and pretty decent defensively. Could easily fit into a 4-2-3-1 (without Ollie being pushed wide) and doesn't enforce a 4-4-2. I think it was @nick76 who published Ollie's heat map last season - which just shows that he isn't playing a traditional centre forward role. His heat map could be almost identical in a 4-2-3-1. Although bizarrely I think that if Tammy was playing too, Ollie would see much more of the ball on the edge of the penalty area because he wouldn't be the only one running the channels. Anyway, when it happens and we beat Man Utd away with Ollie and Tammy scoring the goals @TRO you can join @nick76 and I for our celebratory "I told you so" beer!!!

Agreed. That is awful. I don't like the stripes on the main body, the collar is awful and somehow the sleeves are even worse. Please be fake.

Don't be sorry mate. To be fair, you have clearly read my thoughts carefully, processed them and then responded with a reasoned and reasonable counter-argument. Which I respect and understand your perspective. That is the point of a forum. I only need an apology from people who either fail to read my posts properly before responding / incorrectly "quoting" my position or those who respond rudely or dismissively. Whoever we get I am confident that the manager and (probably more importantly) the Board will define the type of player that they want to add to our front 4 (or agree that the current personnel are good enough), identify a selection of alternatives and then approach / sign the best option they can. It has been a seriously long time since I felt that we have a clear plan and direction like this.

I don't know whether Tammy is the perfect / best option out there. However, I think there are an awful lot of reasons as to why he could be an option and could / would be an excellent signing. I guess one other thing to consider is that Tammy still has a pretty high reputation in the footballing world. I think that he's the type of player (age, experience, signing from a super-6 club, etc) that other transfer targets would look at and think "hey Villa really are up to something" - particularly those that maybe play for a Super-6 club or have interest from a Super-6 club. Them not being the first player to "jump ship" and sign up to the Villa vision might just be all the encouragement they need...

Why does it mean we would play 4-4-2 or that one would need to be shifted wide? Ross played in a very advance CAM role last season where he was asked to not (or at least didn't) do an awful lot of defending. So I don't see how either Tammy or Ollie playing in that role is much different to something that Dean has done before. I don't really see a big difference in a front 4 of Jack, Ross, Bertie and Ollie in terms of "approach" than Jack, Tammy, Emi and Ollie. I think defensively the latter is stronger, will give our midfield / defenders more support and press harder. Offensively I think the latter is in a different league - more goal threat, more threat from dead ball situations, more threat on the break, more threat when in possession against a team that has "parked the bus". As I said yesterday I think it would be a combination that would support the main strengths of each of the four players, would give the opposition no end of trouble, would allow us to be very dynamic and fluid during a match and in relation to different game scenarios and gives us options as and when we have injuries, suspensions, etc. Indeed I think with almost every other proposed option for an attacking recruit - the formation(s) / approach(es) other people are proposing are very, very similar to what I have suggested above. I guess the main difference is that Tammy is tagged as more of a striker whereas other players are more (attacking) midfielders. The problem I see with the latter is that if Ollie gets injured then there are not many attacking midfielders who could play Ollie's role anywhere close to his level and we'd lose a lot of our goal threat - whereas Tammy could fill that hole (with Bertie then fitting into the 4). Obviously the flip side is that Tammy's link up play is not (at the moment) a big strength of his. However, I am imagining that a lot of our creativity will come through Jack and Emi (and Bertie off the bench) so maybe that isn't such a big issue. Also Smith has said before that Tammy is brilliant at training and adjusting quickly to new ideas. I also don't think that it is a massive jump to say that some of the things that a CAM offers are already provided by Ollie in terms of his ridiculous work rate, running into channels, constant pressing of the opposition defenders / defensive midfielders. I don't think that any of that would need to change with Tammy in the side. Indeed it might even give Ollie the chance to catch his breath a bit.

You're post was wrong on every level imaginable..... apart from the fact that I agreed with it all (but I won't mention that).

Plus when you bring Bertie on (or when he starts to give one of the others a rest) nothing changes. He would fit straight into that system. Probably the same for Chuck, Barry and the young Argentinian link. They all look like they could fit into that type of dynamic / fluid attacking unit.

I don't believe they are the only options. I genuinely believe that you can play Ollie, Tammy, Jack and Emi as a front four in a way that doesn't mean that we play "old school" 4-4-2. I guess on paper that would probably mean having a 4-2-3-1 formation and maybe listing Ollie or Tammy in a slightly deeper "10" role. But in effect I think it would be so fluid that it would be closer to the "total football" approach of the Dutch whereby at any single point in time any one of the 4 players could be playing in any one of the 4 positions. Ollie drifts wide to exploit the flank, Tammy is in the centre waiting for a cross and Jack drops into the CAM role. Tammy goes to the right, Ollie is in the box, Jack down the left and Emi moves central. All four can score goals, all four can fashion chances for each other. Just so many options. And when we get a free-kick / corner then either JWP puts it in the top corner or we have Tammy and Ollie as genuine targets in the box.

Shucks. Showing my age. Again. Now what was I doing.....

As someone once said - I'd rather have a striker who creates 5 chances and buries 2 of them, then a striker who waits for 1 chance and puts it away.

According to the rules of BODMAS I think it should be (NPXG+A)/90? Sorry I'll get my coat and leave...

Given that Brentford have just been promoted I can't see how they would let Toney go for much less than £30 million. I suspect that we'd get Tammy for less than £40 million (at least up front) so I don't think there is a big cost difference between the two.

Given that @nick76 has broken his radio silence on Tammy - I'll give it one more go too. I genuinely believe that it would be possible to play Ollie, Tammy, Emi and Jack as a front 4 where we aren't playing 4-4-2 and where Ollie isn't put out on the left wing. All four have sufficient technical skill, athleticism and other key attributes that would (in my opinion) allow them to be assigned a specific role but be able to interchange with each other at different times during the match when required. By their very nature all four take up positions in and exploit parts of the pitch that you might not expect a typical player in their "role" to take. All are happy going wide to exploit the channels. All are equally happy playing more centrally. I just think that the dynamism of that combination as a front 4 could genuinely be on a whole new level. Probably only City and Liverpool would be able to match it. I mean as a central defender who the **** do you decide to mark / track when Villa win the ball and you suddenly have those four running at you. On top of which I think that all four could form an amazing bond off the pitch and people just play so much better together when they are mates, get along and want each other to do well.

If / when we do - just imagine the reaction from the press and the "super" six!!

We'll get both.

@nick76 I love you mate! When he signs and scores the winner to beat Man Utd at Old Trafford (with Ollie scoring in the first half too) I am flying back to the UK and you & I are sharing a beer (or two or more) whilst saying "we told you so" to anyone who is within earshot!!

Surely if Tammy were to come and double his value over 2 seasons then at £40m he would be better value than a £15m striker that came and doubled his value? Signing a £15m striker who turns into an £80m would obviously be better - but highly unlikely.

Thanks! Not sure that I know how to do it either! But it kind of reminds me of an advert: Winning the Premier League: £10 million. Scoring the winning goal in the Champions League final: £50 million. Scoring the winning goal in a World Cup final: £100 million. Having 60,000 people crying for an hour after your final match for your boyhood (and only) team: Priceless.

You tell your grandkids about trophies. You tell the wife and your dad about money. The whole city tells you, your parents, your children, your grandchildren, your aunts/uncles/nephews/neices, your friends, your neighbours, your dog-sitter, your baker, your butcher and everyone else they know about the day they cried when you retired. THAT is the difference and like you say for a few people that is everything. Very few players get to win titles but even fewer ever have the opportunity to do this. Hopefully, Jack can do both at Villa.

Sorry - I know I posted this in the Transfer Window thread too. But this is what the club should be showing Jack every day.

Interestingly when the Italian media interviewed Jack the other day - they mentioned that he was compared here with Totti (style, ability to take people on, killer passes, supreme touch, and of course the "one club" legend). The more people that tell him that he can have that status for life (which is something that almost none of his contemporaries will have) the better.