allani

Come on Brentford sneak a winner!

Get in Wigan!

Scott Hogan winner. 3 different centre forwards scoring in the same match for us. Come on - make it true!

I am sure that this should probably go in an existing thread but I couldn't work out which was best because it covers a few different topics. A non-Villa friend asked me how I felt after today's match and this was my response. ********************** In 2015/2016 when Villa were relegated from the Premier League we scored 27 goals in 38 matches. The season before we managed 31 in 38, The season before was 39. In 2012/13 we went on a bit of a spree and managed 47 (1.23 goals per game). The season before was 37 again (so that was 5 seasons at an average of less than 1 goal per game). Despite Top 10 finishes in 08/09 (6th), 09/10 (6th) and 10/11 (9th) we were still only scoring around 50 goals a season. In 2016/17 we scored 47 in 46 matches in the Championship. Last season we somehow managed to end up as the third top scorers in the division despite playing (for long spells) pretty dull football - especially away from home where Bruce's "safety first" approach really shone through. Indeed you probably need to go back to 2007/08 when we finished 6th in the Premier League and scored 71 goals in 38 games (only Man Utd and Arsenal scored more than us that season) to the last time when Villa played decent football that was fun to watch. In our last 4 matches we have scored 15 goals (3-0, 4-2, 5-5, 3-0) and it is suddenly fun to be a Villa fan again. Yeah but it is only Championship football I hear you cry. True. But those matches have been against the teams who are 3rd (away), 5th (home), 7th (away) and 9th (home), all are in decent form themselves and will probably all be in the hunt for promotion. Dean Smith is an absolute breath of fresh air. He wants to try and win every match. He wants us to attack the opposition and try to be creative. We haven't seen this for more than 10 seasons. To be honest I almost don't care what happens in terms of the final table - playing like we are is exciting, fun, entertaining... We will probably get turned over a few times, we will probably concede too many goals, we'll probably drop stupid points here and there - but I don't really care. Football is fun. Thank you Dean Smith. I hope that results keep going our way. I hope the board backs you with a couple of defenders in January and a keeper who can catch a cross. I hope we get promoted and I hope that we try and play the same way in the Premier League. I hope this sets the tone of the approach that this club will take under your management and beyond. Realistically we are light years behind the guys at the top but if we play attractive, entertaining, attacking football with the ethos of trying to win matches rather than not to lose them then I will be a happy fan.

Is it Bruce?

So you expect Smith to leave a pretty secure job where he is earning lots of plaudits for a 6 month stint with us whilst we figure out who we really want. Blimey that sounds right up there with the Chequers Plan as a negotiation tactic.

Henry was ever so slightly a better player too. In fact Sherwood is positively Sunday League in comparison. Let's face it for every possible option we can all find 5 examples of how that hasn't worked. Every manager is a gamble. Smith and Wilder haven't managed in the Premier League. Rodgers is arguably on his way down (although he might see us as a chance to reignite his career). Henry is a complete newcomer. I think any of those 4 would be pretty good. I honestly don't believe that the first two have any chance of being offered the job (if you are the third richest owners in British football trying to make waves then they are a bit "meh" - although I think they'd do a job). Rodgers has the experience. Henry has the magic. They are both a world away from our previous x appointments. If it really is a choice between those two then you know what - I am pretty happy. Either may be brilliant. Either may fail. But both show me something different and a desire to really make a mark.

We are talking about Belgium - the team that finished 3rd in the World Cup? When almost everyone says that France v Belgium should have been the final in terms of having the best two teams getting through. Their only mistake was in not deliberately losing to (or drawing with) England in order to get into the easier half of the draw.

I think at some point we would have hit a run of good results - maybe not as good as last season's run after Christmas but decent enough to finish mid - high mid table. He would have had to tackle the defence issue in January too and I can't believe that that wouldn't have happened (although I can't believe it didn't happen in the summer!!!).

Gazza was a great player but I think everyone would be freaked out if he was being talked about as a candidate. Whilst Henry has no experience to prove that he can / can not organise defences or sign defenders - he has always (in my opinion) come across as an intelligent footballer who could read the game well. He was able to adjust his own game throughout his career as demonstrated by the number of different roles he played in and his success in most (if not all) of them. This is some kind of evidence (in my mind) that he has a good understanding of the game and how to make the most out of players' attributes and skills. He also talks well - in a studious, knowledgeable type of way - rather than some of the garbage that many "pundits" trot out. However, none of that really changes the fact that he is unproven - we can all point to similar ex-players who failed or similar ex-players who succeeded. I think he has a better "grounding" than Lampard or Gerrard having experienced football in more leagues/countries. Plus he has played for some of the best managers around and will (hopefully) have learnt many lessons from them. I think he also still has good relationships with most of them so he's got some great contacts for his "phone a friend" option if he needs some good advice. I guess for me the "appeal" is the ceiling. Bruce for me might have got us promoted, might have kept us up for a season but ultimately would have been unlikely to take us further than being PL strugglers. Looking through some of the "experienced" names linked - few, if any, change that diagnosis. Rodgers is possibly the exception to that in that I'd expect him to get us promoted and back up into top half / Europe qualification territory. Many of the foreign names linked seem to have a slightly chequered past (some good results, some unconvincing ones) and so I thought most sounded like a risk. Other Championship managers have (to date) failed to test themselves in a higher league - but I don't know how Wilder or Smith (for example) would sell themselves and the club to the type of players we would need to get beyond mid-table Premier League. Which leads onto Henry. No proof - granted. Could be a complete disaster - granted. But (and I appreciate that this is a big but!!!!) he could be brilliant. He could be the next Pep. His name alone could attract young players from across Europe to the club. He probably won't be given how hard it is to move from a playing career to a managerial career. But I think that is the excitement that attracts people and where the appeal comes from. I conversely think we are in exactly the position to be a training course for a high profile wannabee manager. I think we are too good to be relegated and we'll drag out enough results to keep us away from the relegation battle. I would rather try this approach now, than after winning promotion to the PL. If it doesn't work then we can go with a more "sensible" option. But Bruce was the "sensible" option and that hasn't worked (and yes if we go through our recent managerial appointments there are examples of almost every approach failing!!). But if it does work then it could be amazing and I don't think that applies to many of the other candidates. Obviously that doesn't mean that there isn't another name out there that wouldn't be even better - but I can't think of who that might be.

Henry is in a much worse situation (i.e. the club is 15th in the Championship and floundering, the squad is hugely unbalanced, etc) but I agree that means that it is probably a better time to take over and take a new approach. I think fans will be patient at least through to the end of January as long as we show some signs of improvement (in performance or approach) and stay clear of the relegation battle. I don't know what the minimum requirement will be when we come towards the end of the season though - will we be content with avoiding relegation, avoiding the relegation battle, bottom half or top half but outside play-offs? You could argue that any of the above would have been classed as failure by Bruce - my sense was that SB would have got us finishing somewhere between 8th and 14th, probably finishing top half with a couple of decent spells of results. So should that become the minimum requirement for any new manager (regardless of who it might be)? Hopefully this is a moot point as the new regime will herald in improved results and performances that make us all happy.

What the hell is a "set piece situation"???!! It is an effing free-kick. Fewer letters. Easier to understand. More accurate.

I'm not sure whether the likes of Rodgers would be interested unless they had full control.

Also I think it is fairly certain that we will also be getting an experienced DOF (I've assume an experienced manager / coach) so a less experienced manager should (if the DOF is good enough) have a mentor, someone to bounce ideas past and / or someone to offer some advice. Obviously in order for that to work the DOF and manager have to have a lot of mutual respect and understand the limits of their specific roles. If Henry is favourite then I think (much as some think it is unattainable) Wenger becomes more likely as, at the very least a target, the DOF. Can stay in football but avoids the stress and pressure of everyday management. Opportunity to start building a legacy at another big club. Chance to work with and develop the managerial career of one of his best ever signings / players. Suddenly the beginning of a proposal that could be quite exciting for him. Probably also someone who could be interested in a deal / package that gets around FFP (share options). It would be a hell of a statement and if it is even being discussed it would all be about the owners selling a vision of where we could be rather than where we are. Both Henry and Wenger have been in the UK long enough to know what we could be....

Well Thom Yorke did say that he wanted to be the "special" one....

I think the fact that everyone has been talking about a DOF and a Manager and the approach that WE seems to have taken in the US indicates a Sorcerer and his Apprentice type arrangement. Someone with lots of experience, knowledge and contacts and maybe a yet to be (fully) proven manager with some good ideas and a load of potential - with the two of them working together to install a Villa "style". I may be completely wrong but just have the sense that an Henry / Faria style appointment is more likely than a Moyes.

'Enri...

So if Faria has been tapped up for a while and there is supposedly a link between our new manager and DOF - at least Man Utd's form can be explained. Jose looking for a pay off before moving on to his new role..... ?

Pretty sure that Cabbage scores 11. So Ranieri out!!!

But there are so many ways around it if you are half-decent at accounting. For example, any contract could be massively loaded on bonus payments or have a huge pay rise on promotion. Alternatively, if they are looking at a long term project with a DOF and manager then I suspect they could even offer shares either with or without a pay-back arrangement. As far as I know neither of these would be subject to FFP - or if they were it would be after promotion at which point it is not an issue. I honestly don't think that you become as successful as the three guys currently running the club are (I'm excluding the Dr from this as he has clearly been removed from the process) without being good at business and knowing how to get around a few technical / bureaucratic obstacles. It might take someone not that interested just in a salary but I think they can devise a very attractive package for their target candidates.

Depends massively on the big appointment(s) but I am hoping that we have sold a dream to an ambitious manager with a plan.

Which still leaves us 2 points behind last season at the same stage....

Just re-watched the Bruce post-match interview last night and there is one thing that really stands out for me. At one point Bruce says (with a huge amount of pride) that we've only lost once away from home this season. Excusing him the fact that we also lost away to a team from a lower division and so removing the cup from the equation altogether - another way of looking at that is that we have only won once away from home. P5 W1 D3 L1 is (on the face of it) not exactly a terrible set of statistics. Others will look at that and say we've only lost once and been picking up points. Others will look at it as having dropped points in 4 matches. For me a record of P5 W2 D0 L3 results in the same number of points. Last night we ended up with no strikers on the pitch apparently settling for a point - and it is far from the first time that that has happened. I guess it partly comes down to whether you are a "glass half full" or a "glass half empty" type of person. I think the easiest way to gain points is to convert draws into wins rather than to stop draws falling into losses - purely on the basis of the fact that it takes half as many matches to yield the same result.

Sorry - quoting the article rather than you. But this is really freaky. How many times have we heard the exact (or comparative) things here???

We are now 13 matches into the season (including cup games) and Bruce said that we shouldn't judge the team until we'd played 12-15 matches as we needed time to rebuild. So here is a view on our latest form: This Season: P13 W4 D5 L3. If converted to Points this gives us 17 points from 13 matches. A projection (based on continuing on the same form) of 60 points (somewhere between 12th and 14th position based on last season's final points table). Last Half Season P23 W9 D7 L6. If converted to points then this would be 35 points from 23 matches. A projection of 70 points for a full season (good enough for 9th place last season). Last Full Season P46 W22 D12 L12. Which would give us 78 points (5th place). Two ways of looking at this: (1) Bruce is right and we need more time and our form will improve. (2) Our form is getting worse as time passes and we are on a downward trajectory. The difference in form across those three measurement periods has a lot to do with the spell between Boro away and Wolves home (inclusive) when we played 13 matches, won 10, drew 1 and lost 2. We've not had anything like that run since. The trouble is that, much like last season, we are now becoming increasingly reliant on having an incredible spell like that in order to get us back into promotion contention. I can't see any signs of that happening - although to be fair last season we went into that run on the back of some pretty average results (P5 W0 D3 L2) so there were no really signs last season either.