TRO

Just some selective quotes from Steve Bruce this season...... "Pretty Pathetic Stuff" Norwich 1 Villa 0 ,Carrow Rd December 13 " We certainly didn't take part in the game...On days like this you apologise to people who have travelled. It was pretty pathetic stuff" "Man Up" Cardiff 1 Villa 0 ,Cardiff City Stadium January 2 "The sheer lack of quality to do the basics right was simply not good enough.....so they can either man up to it and say we've got to do it this way or alternatively,I'll find a team eventually that will play MY game" " Just Unacceptable" Wolves 1 Villa 0, Molineux, January 14 " Some of the stuff was unacceptable......What we have produced is not good enough to get a result in this division, let alone win a local derby" " Sometimes you just feel embarrassed" Brentford 3 Villa 0, Griffin Park,Jan 31 " We were totally abject.....We was so easy to play against.....I can only apologise" " We xxxxxx around with it" Blackburn 1 Villa 0, Ewood Park, April 29 " I didn't see us take part in the game...I didn't see us create a chance, beat a man, win a challenge....I didn't see us do anything" "I am disappointed, angry & upset, but it doesn't really matter does it... what does matter to me is that they are supposed to be my team and they are supposed to mirror the manager a little bit"....."certainly what I saw today isn't good enough" You can all draw your own conclusions, but that does not strike me as manager who is getting from them what he is expecting. Now if that is a criticism aimed at him, maybe he needs to be ready to correct that for the start of the season.

we all have our moments, when it don't suit

so where is the argument now, with the owners. look forward, not back.

and the ones I have, have been out of our reach.

I don't think it's the answer either, but have you any other idea's.

I think you are miscontruing the situation. Or a bona fide remark from a manager that has openly commented on what we are complaining about......is that so bad?.....you make it sound like we are dealing with the presidente of Columbia fighting the drug barons. There is a list of managers who are deemed no good and gone on to do decent things.....folk are quoting Gary Monk, it makes me laugh. Swansea wasn't so convinced was they. Steve Bruce has already agreed with you, that mid-table is no good, so I doubt HE will settle for that.

I would agree its hard to believe they are sitting deep out of choosing.....but there are still options to the cause. It seems strange to me that Jed is out again and bang.....defensive errors creep in to what we believe is a solid defence. I am not trying to guide anyone down a certain route, I am merely asking questions, but what if the midfield doesn't trust the defence or in fact they are getting beaten in " ring craft" ( pardon the boxing term) by the opposition midfield and its that that forces them to retreat. How can we be sure we know?

just as a matter of interest.....who do you fancy in his place.

So unless he walks, where do we go from here......he will be given further financial support in the summer.....to bring in players that will do it it for him or that is the plan. unless of course that is fake news and he gets no money and he resigns.

Well he has said in the press he will be looking at things closely, including myself. thats does not indicate the intransigence you suggest. He is clearly miffed at the performances and intends to get to the bottom of it, by all accounts.

Well Bruce has already said he can't believe the inept performances, that suggests to me that they are not completely playing to instructions. does it mean if you are playing deeper, you lose the ability to take care of the ball,does it mean you lose your first touch, does it mean your ability to pass the ball deserts you? If you are struggling in midfield to beat an opponent, the tendency is to retreat, its a natural trait.....and how can we be so sure, the players they had around them,at their previous clubs allowed them to play advanced.....and ours don't. I am just highlighting the uncertainty surrounding our turgid stuff..... I am not condemning anyone just yet....but i do agree its shit. I have seen inept performances in the past under the stewardship of other managers and after a poor performance that have completely denied it and said we played well.That is not happening with SB. i am no more sure of one argument or the other, nothing is clear to me. Markavfc40, sums up my opinion, i guess

AV look it could turn out, you are right.....and I am no more sure of the answers, but.... If its all down to Steve Bruce , why is Taylor ok. If every player was playing shite it may have a semblance of order, but they are not. just a "what if" what if he is telling the players the right way, but they are just not doing it.....Yes he is still responsible, but it raises different questions.....and a different approach to put it right. I'm just being Devils Advocate.

I am not in a position to argue with that.....but we need to see what he comes up with.....as he agrees.

On the surface, i agree we should be much better than we are.....and equally I am not trying to be holier than thou, by claiming not enough time, for the sake of it.I just happen to think the magnitude of the job and to build team spirit with virtual strangers, needs more time.....irrespective of any manager, being in charge. There are many factors at play and unanswered Steve Bruce is already open enough to question himself, he has come out and said that. Did he sign the players or someone else, or a committee? He has said that he has faith in the Hogan signing and that he is not being fed the ball during a game.? He has admitted the team does not mirror his playing out look, make of that what you will, but it does not suggest to me, he is comfortable with it. He has already said that we can't pass a decent ball. now if that means they are not playing for him or if they can't do what he is asking, it needs to be established. Wherever the fault lies, it is alarmingly clear, its not good enough. The midfield is far from right and as soon as Jed is out the centre of defence looks iffy....its just not right. If it means players going or the managers goes, as long as it is the best future intersts of the club, so be it. I am absolutely 110% certain there is a case for not good enough, just unsure where the problem lies, assuming its only in one place. question....have we signed a few more primma donna's or has it all passed him by?

I understand your point entirely.....on paper is just what it is.....How many players over the years have fallen in to the " on paper" category.....only for us to find out they wasn't as good as WE thought they was. Listen, I am not saying he is blameless.....but he has to have time to sort it.

I think one of the things that has got up our noses is the form of Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan. we all thought they would perform better.....me included. I have no idea, why they haven't given us better.....i can only speculate like most. I can count many players in the past that we have thought that was going to pull trees up.....and they Haven't......sasa curcic anybody......oh lots of us wanted him.I watched Brian Little get slaughtered for signing him at a tuesday night sports forum ......I got up and challenged the whole audience....." who would not have signed him, not one voice......Brian Little actually said thanks.....but my point is they don't always turn out.its easy when you don't have to make the call and how do we know its just them that are wholly responsible for the nomination. How do we know the players around them at their previous clubs may have been more instrumental in their success than we are prepared to consider. There are so many unanswered questions before we roll out the guillotine.

One window Dave and Jan just to make it worse......come on Dave.

I don't think that is strickly true Terry to be honest.....Look i am not arguing the football is turgid at present, but i think in order to drive home the argument there are some exagerrations at large.There have been some decent performances, even when we have lost i.e Huddersfield.....but equally more horror shows granted. I think its got worse of late, not sure why, deck chair syndrome, who knows. The thing that troubles me those against Bruce have very liitle of anything decent to say. The man has even come out and slaughtered the performances, agreeing with the complainants.....He has even said i will be looking at everything during the summer, even myself. I think he is the sort to walk away, if he thinks he can't fix it. I just happen to think so many are jumping to early conclusions, they could be right......but so could we suporting him. It is much easier to comment on a finished article than one in progress. A wound, a building, a song......can look shit if its not complete. The guy needs a break.

Thats subjective I'm afraid Dave. I understand what turgid stuff you are referring too.....but the conceding goals has got better in the main....so no progress, is not strickly true Imo.

"Its what the manager wants".......it's these falseisms that make this debate so difficult. Band wagon talk. He's made it clear he is not happy with it.....and then you write that.....unhelpful.

Is it necessary to resort to exaggerations like "Bruce the messiah" who has even closely alluded to that. I am not happy at all with the standard of football on display.....But i am not going to speculate at this stage that all the problems lie with a manager that has been with us for 30 odd games on the back of such a demise. If you think that is no grounds for mitigation fine.I may resign myself to your thinking eventually, but I think its too soon ,sorry. I think one window is not enough to put this right. However, the powers that be will see things a lot closer, they will make their mind up. judging by some of his comments after yesterdays game, it seems many things will be looked at,even himself.

He inherited a strong championship squad......nah.

Just as a matter of interest how many games / time do you think it takes any manager turn this lot around? What, may i ask, was you expecting? When did you think, nah, he's not the one? nothing sinister, just interested.

I think you will find he has said just that in the "sun"

Well he is reported as saying in one paper......as well as the players, he will be looking at himself....so a bit of self analysis, that maybe you was looking for. I at least admire his transparency and honesty, if little else. I think he is the sort to walk away, if he thinks he can't do it.