Richard Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 If I can move the goalposts a bit... 3 of Defoe's 10 goals have been penalties.. Only 7 goals from open play in 34 appearances..... WTF. And two of those 7 were tap ins, and 3 of the remaining 5 should have been offside and the remaining two he fouled the defender on the run in. Goals scored are goals scored I am afraid not matter how he gets them, you cannot discount them for being penalties. Besides which it would be nice to have a striker who can score from the spot. Our last one was crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mademan Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 WTF. And two of those 7 were tap ins, and 3 of the remaining 5 should have been offside and the remaining two he fouled the defender on the run in. Goals scored are goals scored I am afraid not matter how he gets them, you cannot discount them for being penalties. We've got Barry to take penalties. If Defoe came here for big money and scored 7 goals in 34 appearances, I'd be very. very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Goals scored are goals scored I am afraid not matter how he gets them, you cannot discount them for being penalties. Actually you can take it into account. Goals from open play are more essential when it comes to considering how effective strikers are. A cb can knock in 10 pens through a season, but it doesnt make him a goal scoring threat in open play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkr Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 WTF. And two of those 7 were tap ins, and 3 of the remaining 5 should have been offside and the remaining two he fouled the defender on the run in. Goals scored are goals scored I am afraid not matter how he gets them, you cannot discount them for being penalties. We've got Barry to take penalties. If Defoe came here for big money and scored 7 goals in 34 appearances, I'd be very. very disappointed. Id be delighted if we managed to qualify for Europe or champions league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 If Defoe came here for big money and scored 7 goals in 34 appearances, I'd be very. very disappointed. What if he scored 10 in 34? And the three penalties earned us the 9 points needed for Champions league qualification. Good god, sense of perspective required If MON signed Defoe I would be thrilled that we have a board prepared to back a managers judgement Actually you can take it into account. Goals from open play are more essential when it comes to considering how effective strikers are. A cb can knock in 10 pens through a season, but it doesnt make him a goal scoring threat in open play Rubbish. If the three pens earned 9 points then he is not effective because they were not from open play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timharding Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Defoe, like Moore, deserves credit as any member of thestrilkers union will agree that is is tough to go on a scoring streak if you are not a regular starter, or if you're coming off the bench. Defoe got 18 in all comps, Keane got 22 and berbatov got 23. Given that Berbatov is the guarenteed starter, this is a very good return. Ilike Defoe, though not as much as I like Bent, and certainly not as much as the Sun does. However it is important to remember the criteria. 1)Will he improve us? 2)Is he good value? 1)Our squad has 3 out and out strikers and MON clearly wants a 4th. Therefore any new striker is Angel's replacement. I loved JPA but Defoe is an improvement. 2)Cant be answered yet. In a nutshell there are players I'd prefer, but Defoe in a Villa shirt would have more pro's than cons imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Has defoe signed yet? has bent gone to spurs yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Rubbish. If the three pens earned 9 points then he is not effective because they were not from open play? When you discuss how effective strikers are, you consider open play goals, and not penalties. Like a said a CB with 10 penalty goals is still not a goal threat in open play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 What about considering who earned the penalties? What about a striker with 24 goals all season, all penalties and all 1-0 wins? Are they not effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocafella Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Jermain Defoe (last three seasons playing 20 league caps or more): This season: 34 games and 10 goals Last season: 36 games and 9 goals 2004/2005: 35 games and 13 goals Together = 105 games and 32 goals = 0,30 (probably many games as a sub) Mystery Aston Villa player (last three seasons playing 20 league caps or more): 05/06: 25 games and 8 goals 04/05: 26 games and 9 goals 02/03: 27 games and 9 goals Together = 78 games and 26 goals = 0,33 Don't read too much into statistics. Players who are in top shape but don't play every game tend to score goals and really spark before being left out of the squad again. The story could be different when he played every game week in week out, getting tired and so on. Oh the mystery player is Milan Baros. (Edit: I know this doesn't proove anything, I am simply highlighting the fact that you shouldn't read too much into stats... at least not all the time!) IMO buying Defoe would be buying something we already have in Gabby and Moore. At least one of them will reach his level within the next season I am sure of it. Also, we would be buying someone who is not good enough for Spurs. People would argue that it is not true, but if he leaves Tottenham (5th and 5th) for Villa (16th and 11th) it would be a step down (right now it clearly is) and he would leave because he is not their preferred striker after Berbatov. I think he would be an addition, but there are better players out there for a club with such ambitions and money like AVFC07/08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mademan Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Id be delighted if we managed to qualify for Europe or champions league. You trying to imply that he's the reason Spurs are in europe? What if he scored 10 in 34? And the three penalties earned us the 9 points needed for Champions league qualification. Good god, sense of perspective required I don't think he'd take penalties at Villa for a start. And then if he matched his tally from open play at Spurs and scored 7 for us, I'd be disappointed. Gabby has 9 goals and he's played on the right wing for most of the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeMoore Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I'll be gutted and wonder what Villa scout are doing with there time!! yeah 21 starts and 10 goals in the prem our scouts must be stupid if we want a striker like that. The stats im looking at, says 9 Goals, 32 Games Premier League this season. Nope, it's definitely 10 goals in 20 starts. Actually its 9 Goals, 32 Games in the Premier League, atleast according to 2 major sites providing stats. i think strikers deserve to be judged by the amount of games they've started, funny i'm sure you felt the same when discussing angels record. That is funny, cause i remember you judging JPA on GT mk2 season, where he suffered the life of the wooden bench, and had 12 sub-apparances.. yep your right i've judged him on just one season :roll: When you discuss how effective strikers are, you consider open play goals, and not penalties. so you say angel was great but his record this season was 23 appearances 3 goals from open play. :? No strikers record has ever been goals/starts. You do it based on overall appearances, let's not move the goalposts to make Defoe look better than he is. i disagree, i think you can't really judge a players goal/games because defoe has come on for the last 10 minutes quite a few times this season and it's hardly fair to expect him to score. I think goals to minutes on the pitch is a fair one but i'm not sure where you can find that info out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timharding Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Andy Johnson 'earned' and scored what? 10 pens for palace? Hate to say it but he was certainly effective. Having a record FULL of pens does detract slightly but I donbt think it puts effectiveness in doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mademan Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 What about considering who earned the penalties? What about a striker with 24 goals all season, all penalties and all 1-0 wins? Are they not effective? Would you want to sign a striker who only scored penalties in a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 It's 10 goals in 34. No strikers record has ever been goals/starts. You do it based on overall appearances, let's not move the goalposts to make Defoe look better than he is. Just out of interest, why limit the stats to just league goals? Do cup goals not count? Defoe has scored 18 goals this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timharding Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Andy Johnson 'earned' and scored what? 10 pens for palace? Hate to say it but he was certainly effective. Having a record FULL of pens does detract slightly but I donbt think it puts effectiveness in doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 What about considering who earned the penalties? What about a striker with 24 goals all season, all penalties and all 1-0 wins? Are they not effective? Who earned the penalties? You know im right and now you are asking hypothetical questions, which will never happen FWIW Defoe has 10 goals in 34 matches, 7 in open play. You may like it or not, but when you discuss the effectiveness of strikers you consider open play goals over penalties. Barry could have 10 penalty goals and still not be the goal threat Ronaldinho or Lampard is from open play. Mellberg could have 20 penalty goals and still not be a goal threat in open play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Gabby has 9 goals and he's played on the right wing for most of the season! He's also played nearly every minute of every game. Defoe has started just over half the games that Spurs have played. When you discuss how effective strikers are, you consider open play goals, and not penalties. Says who? If a striker misses nearly every penalty he takes (as our previous one did) then you certainly factor that into how effective he is. If he manages to score, why shouldn't that be counted in his favour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 It's 10 goals in 34. No strikers record has ever been goals/starts. You do it based on overall appearances, let's not move the goalposts to make Defoe look better than he is. Just out of interest, why limit the stats to just league goals? Do cup goals not count? Defoe has scored 18 goals this season. Because we are talking Premier League matches and Premier League goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts