rjshare Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Pointing it out as a fact and using it as a way to make negative comments about the manager. no - pointing out that when you use it as a benchmark of greatness, it actually boils down to something quite ordinary. What should MON do? Tell them to forget the draw and villa will just play whoever the best team left in is? no - mon shouldnt do anything at all. it is YOU who should stop using the argument of - "but he got us to a cup final" as a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything that the manager might be doing - in some fans eyes - wrong. Its stupid to complain about not having a good cup run and then not being happy when you have a good cup run, its out of our hands who we face but its not like the best team always wins in cup matches now is it? no one is complaining about having a good cup run - they are trying to put into perspective what an acheivement it was - or wasnt, depending on your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 no - pointing out that when you use it as a benchmark of greatness, it actually boils down to something quite ordinary. Yes crazy for thinking a semi final and a final given our recent record in cups is something good, added to a good points total, league finish and decent challenge for 4th yes i think it can be used to show a good season. Why is it quite ordinary, other good teams lost to lower league opposition, why is it just ordinary to beat lower league opposition when MON does it? no - mon shouldnt do anything at all. it is YOU who should stop using the argument of - "but he got us to a cup final" as a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything that the manager might be doing - in some fans eyes - wrong. Yeah horrible when actual facts get in the way of a good complaint with nothing to back it up eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshare Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 no - pointing out that when you use it as a benchmark of greatness, it actually boils down to something quite ordinary. Yes crazy for thinking a semi final and a final given our recent record in cups is something good, added to a good points total, league finish and decent challenge for 4th yes i think it can be used to show a good season. Why is it quite ordinary, other good teams lost to lower league opposition, why is it just ordinary to beat lower league opposition when MON does it? no - mon shouldnt do anything at all. it is YOU who should stop using the argument of - "but he got us to a cup final" as a get-out-of-jail-free card for anything that the manager might be doing - in some fans eyes - wrong. Yeah horrible when actual facts get in the way of a good complaint with nothing to back it up eh? it is you who refuse to acknowledge facts. no one is trying to claim that we didnt get to a cup final etc etc - it is you who refuses to acknowledge that whilst it was great to get to wembley in actual fact to get there we got the easiest draw of all time and really struggled to win some games that we should have won easily. the only time we got beaten was when we played teams above us in the league so we got as far as "form" would have suggested we should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I haven't refused to accept that but thats cup football, sometimes the draw will be kind but you still have to beat whats infront of you and other good teams weren't able to do that where they? Therefore i don't see why we can't say good job for MON being able to do that. I'm not claiming its the greatest thing we've ever done but people have been annoyed about how early we've gone out of cups in the past and now we do well write it off because of who we played. So now we can only be proud of a semi final and a final if we beat the top 4 on the way to those games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 We'd be in terrible shape if MON went. And if he doesn't sign anyone this summer? You have comprehended that yes, or is it just not going to happen? If he doesn't sign anyone, the team will be fine. We've got, IMO, the deepest defensive squad in the Prem, probably the second deepest central midfield grouping in the Prem, A top-tier keeper, two strikers who scored over 15 goals in all competitions, and one, maybe two top tier wingers. With four youngsters who will be pushing for places through the season. Sounds like a good team to me. Of course we'll be fine, we'll finish mid-table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Jez have you not become bored of being wrong all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Jez have you not become bored of being wrong all the time? You agree with that school of thought then, no signings and we will do the same as last year? I've been wrong lots of times, but MON wont take us any further unless he changes, just watch he will leave rather than change. You just change your mind again like you did about finishing 6th again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 It would be foolish to ignore the things happening around you and refuse to change your opinion on things because of them, i know you've read what i've put before but you seem to enjoy ignoring it as though you think you're getting one over on me. For example someone who predicts negative things every season and yet every season is shown to be wrong but refuses to ever change that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 It would be foolish to ignore the things happening around you and refuse to change your opinion on things because of them, i know you've read what i've put before but you seem to enjoy ignoring it as though you think you're getting one over on me. For example someone who predicts negative things every season and yet every season is shown to be wrong but refuses to ever change that stance. I dont change my stance, im chuffed when i'm wrong as i have been lots of times. But there will come a time BJ where you will be wrong and i'm worried how it might effect you, someone who is never ever negative about MON. To see him fail might cause you some serious problems. Of course i only joke, but i do believe that he has reached his limit. I understand why you dont believe that as the facts show otherwise however, the nagging concerns are still there for some myself included. No team has been in the top 4 (naff holy grail) without foreign flair and talent, no team from what i remember. No team has been their without a squad a squad that is used. MON is a good manager but he cannot re-invent the wheel unless he changes to incorporate the above. He is too stubborn or limited which ever to change, its why i feel he has reached his peak and only an improvement to 5th/4th and actually a real challenge for 4th (come on we were never in it with out home form) will change my mind. He wont achieve this without changing. I hope i'm wrong. Oh nicer football would be a bonus too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 It would be foolish to ignore the things happening around you and refuse to change your opinion on things because of them, i know you've read what i've put before but you seem to enjoy ignoring it as though you think you're getting one over on me. For example someone who predicts negative things every season and yet every season is shown to be wrong but refuses to ever change that stance. I dont change my stance, im chuffed when i'm wrong as i have been lots of times. But there will come a time BJ where you will be wrong and i'm worried how it might effect you, someone who is never ever negative about MON. To see him fail might cause you some serious problems. Of course i only joke, but i do believe that he has reached his limit. I understand why you dont believe that as the facts show otherwise however, the nagging concerns are still there for some myself included. No team has been in the top 4 (naff holy grail) without foreign flair and talent, no team from what i remember. No team has been their without a squad a squad that is used. MON is a good manager but he cannot re-invent the wheel unless he changes to incorporate the above. He is too stubborn or limited which ever to change, its why i feel he has reached his peak and only an improvement to 5th/4th and actually a real challenge for 4th (come on we were never in it with out home form) will change my mind. He wont achieve this without changing. I hope i'm wrong. Oh nicer football would be a bonus too That is fair enough that you believe that and you could be right but are you not willing to give MON the chance to show whether he can? He has done a lot for this club in his 4 years and I would like to see us succeed with MON as manager so until he actually shows that he cannot take us any further then I am fully behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 He has done a lot for this club in his 4 years and I would like to see us succeed with MON as manager so until he actually shows that he cannot take us any further then I am fully behind him. Agreed, i think he's done enough that he should be given the chance to fail before being written off. And Jez you make some good points that i can fully appreciate and understand about using the squad more and having more of a foreign influence in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villashrew Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I would have liked to have voted YES, but sadly opted for NO. I honestly feel that without some substantial investment into the playing squad and to move unused players on, even terminate the contracts if necessary of the deadwood ( Salifou, Osbourne et al). We all know the good that Mr Lerner has done to the infrastructure of the club, and to a greater extent the money he has made available to MON, but now we find MON transfer listing a handful of players who he brought to the club and pretty much every fan would like to keep at the club and be played more often ( Davies, L.Young, NRC). We will undoubtably take a hefty loss on the three mentioned with what is pretty much the smallest squad in the league as it is. I dont read too much into the rumours of a sell to buy policy, as Mr Lerner has always said there is money available to spend. I TRULY BELIEVE that he just doesnt trust MON to spend vast amounts wisely anymore! My major concern is who would replace him? Would a foreign manager such as Frank Rijkaard want the position, and be welcomed? I would personally love to see someone like that come in, as there european knowledge would bound to bring some gems to the club and a bit of flair/creativity that we have all been crying out for. As it stands though i feel that MON has taken us as far as he can but feel now is the wrong time to part company with the new season so nearly upon us. So i find myself completely confused! So i guess he should stay for now and give him the benefit of the doubt till the transfer window shuts. I just hope he pulls some major suprises out the bag before it shuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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