snowychap Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Part of Thatch's legacy was to con people into thinking that owning shares in the companies gave them power. It didn't and the likes of Goodwin and Hornby proved such. thats a fantastic peice of analysis Snowy, the sell off of all our assets i the 80's were a con and could oly be done when the unions were destroyed. Along with my fav of the council house sell off, it gave a false notion that private was better but in fact the only winners were those at the top or foreign companies who broughty some great assets Thank you for the praise, Ian. Your extension from my analysis was, in my view, spot on, too. I do remember posting an article about the foreign ownership issue but I also think your comments hit the nail about the disparity between rich and poor. It is not enough to make the poor slightly less poor - what the *king hell is wrong with redistribution? Okay - I expect an avalanche of responses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Weren't some of these guys murdered by fellow miners*? If so how does that make people feel? *Serious question because I'm not sure. If not how does it make you feel to ask that question? If miners committed suicide how does that make you feel to support her still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 It's obvious from certain comments that they have not lived amongst the communities that Thatcher tried and mostly succeeded in killing off and seeing what her legacy was As a born and bred brummie I didn't live round t' pit but if you have a slightly more enlightening answer to my question above I'd be interested to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Part of Thatch's legacy was to con people into thinking that owning shares in the companies gave them power. It didn't and the likes of Goodwin and Hornby proved such. thats a fantastic peice of analysis Snowy, the sell off of all our assets i the 80's were a con and could oly be done when the unions were destroyed. Along with my fav of the council house sell off, it gave a false notion that private was better but in fact the only winners were those at the top or foreign companies who broughty some great assets Thank you for the praise, Ian. Your extension from my analysis was, in my view, spot on, too. I do remember posting an article about the foreign ownership issue but I also think your comments hit the nail about the disparity between rich and poor. It is not enough to make the poor slightly less poor - what the *king hell is wrong with redistribution? Okay - I expect an avalanche of responses.... I am all for it, Brown has done a fair bit but the rich simply got richer quicker than the poor got more money the campaign to abolish inheritance tax is the perfect symbol of this the problem is snowy is that frankly the well off in general do not believe that they owe soceity anything, they get rich on the back of ;birmal people' but simply want to kee all the benfits to themselves or **** off to tax havens whilst still earning from the UK (example Phillip Green) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Genuine offer - if you still think Thatcher was right come "upt north" and we can go across to Bolsover and I will introduce you to a few people who were part of the mining community then. Discuss with them and their families to see if Thatcher was right with her policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Weren't some of these guys murdered by fellow miners*? If so how does that make people feel? *Serious question because I'm not sure. If not how does it make you feel to ask that question? Does that make any sense at all or are you avoiding the question? If miners committed suicide how does that make you feel to support her still?If you read back through the thread I actually agreed with the more flexible Ian who will occassionally answer a direct question - which still stands by the way. Did strikers murder any other miners who were just trying to feed their families? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Along with my fav of the council house sell off which is one of the best things a PM has ever done for this country foreign companies who broughty some great assets assume you are talking Nu Labour here with this line ? what was it ?? ahh yes a target of raising £36 billion from disposals by 2011 ..think the exact line from Superman was ""rationalise the use of buildings and land, and place extraneous assets on the auction block to swell the Treasury coffers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Weren't some of these guys murdered by fellow miners*? If so how does that make people feel? *Serious question because I'm not sure. If not how does it make you feel to ask that question? Does that make any sense at all or are you avoiding the question? If miners committed suicide how does that make you feel to support her still?If you read back through the thread I actually agreed with the more flexible Ian who will occassionally answer a direct question - which still stands by the way. Did strikers murder any other miners who were just trying to feed their families? I believe you are referring to the the taxi incident where I think a slab of concrete was thrown on a taxi carrying 'scabs' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Along with my fav of the council house sell off which is one of the best things a PM has ever done for this country foreign companies who broughty some great assets assume you are talking Nu Labour here with this line ? what was it ?? ahh yes a target of raising £36 billion from disposals by 2011 ..think the exact line from Superman was ""rationalise the use of buildings and land, and place extraneous assets on the auction block to swell the Treasury coffers." that line was started by Thatch who sold early all our energy and water to foreign companies but what the hell you believe it to be right because Tony you are well off, it does not concern you on how someone on min wage or above lives, so why should you care, thats how it goes I have been there, you may have in the past but I have never forgotton what it was like to balance just £36 a week which I had to pay £6 for a bus pass, he only god send was that I lived at home the basic tory philosphy never works because peopelwill always be left behind because some peopel have to clean your offices, make your sandwiches, sell you your food and these will never get paid well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 the problem is snowy is that frankly the well off in general do not believe that they owe soceity anything, they get rich on the back of ;birmal people' but simply want to kee all the benfits to themselves or **** off to tax havens whilst still earning from the UK (example Phillip Green) And by god that is so wrong and unjust. I have to admit that I know people like that - I also know people who firmly disagree with that. There are people who think that they ought to put back into society at least as much if not more than that which they received. What is really, really horrible is when people think that 'class' or private education automatically puts people into categories on this subject. It really is frightfully disgusting when idiots categorise people and treat them awfully because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 the problem is snowy is that frankly the well off in general do not believe that they owe soceity anything, they get rich on the back of ;birmal people' but simply want to kee all the benfits to themselves or **** off to tax havens whilst still earning from the UK (example Phillip Green) And by god that is so wrong and unjust. I have to admit that I know people like that - I also know people who firmly disagree with that. There are people who think that they ought to put back into society at least as much if not more than that which they received. What is really, really horrible is when people think that 'class' or private education automatically puts people into categories on this subject. It really is frightfully disgusting when idiots categorise people and treat them awfully because of that. yes there are rich people who put back into society, there are some who may give all their wealth away (gates and buffet) but most will always want to keep and grow their moey hence the rush to to the likes of Stanford and Mahdorff offerring every attractive ROR's as a labour MP in a EDM said why not tax pensions at 90% over 700k (cheap shot at tosspot) because does any pensioner really need more than 70k a year to live on ? as for your class point then class is sometimes how you act towards fellow human beings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think though the problem is your can't generalise people There are some very wealthy people who put a lot back into society ..and society should continue to create wealthy people ....Capitalism hasn't died overnight ... it's just taking a short time out in Dubai and will be back nicely refreshed in a short while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I believe you are referring to the the taxi incident where I think a slab of concrete was thrown on a taxi carrying 'scabs' I wasn't but thanks again for furthering the conversation. So were these 'scabs' deserving of their fate then, your use of language suggest you might think so. Was it justified to murder men going to work to feed their families then or no? T'other Ian seems to be swerving this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think though the problem is your can't generalise people There are some very wealthy people who put a lot back into society ..and society should continue to create wealthy people ....Capitalism hasn't died overnight ... it's just taking a short time out in Dubai and will be back nicely refreshed in a short while and when the society creates wealthy peopel those wealthy peopel should give more than it;s fair share back and help others to grow upwards and thus increase their own wealth you knwo Tony as well as I do increasing say top level tax to 50% will not effect most wealthy peopel that much or any other methods someone on £100k a year still will get 50k a year cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 as for your class point then class is sometimes how you act towards fellow human beings That is twice in one night, excellent mate, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 I believe you are referring to the the taxi incident where I think a slab of concrete was thrown on a taxi carrying 'scabs' it was the taxi driver that died though I seem to recall ..... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I believe you are referring to the the taxi incident where I think a slab of concrete was thrown on a taxi carrying 'scabs' I wasn't but thanks again for furthering the conversation. So were these 'scabs' deserving of their fate then, your use of language suggest you might think so. Was it justified to murder men going to work to feed their families then or no? T'other Ian seems to be swerving this one... no one deserved to die but this was a chicken and egg situation if thatch ahad not allowed her dogma to dictate and be prepared to compromise it may never have got that far we can only guess at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I believe you are referring to the the taxi incident where I think a slab of concrete was thrown on a taxi carrying 'scabs' I wasn't but thanks again for furthering the conversation. So were these 'scabs' deserving of their fate then, your use of language suggest you might think so. Was it justified to murder men going to work to feed their families then or no? T'other Ian seems to be swerving this one... no one deserved to die but this was a chicken and egg situation if thatch ahad not allowed her dogma to dictate and be prepared to compromise it may never have got that far we can only guess at that Losing your job doesn't exactly jusitfy murder in my book so I'll be holding back my nominations for sainthood for the strikers, and no government forced them to commit murder did they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 as for your class point then class is sometimes how you act towards fellow human beings I apologize for the first moment because this appears to have disappeared but I think this is incredibly true. It isn't 'sometimes' though, it is standard. How one treats other people denotes the level of one's class. Buggeration to the idiotic other measures of class - there is one: the class with which one treats other people. Look after other people; think of other people; be good to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 if thatch ahad not allowed her dogma to dictate On the left there seems to be a denial that something needed to change in British industry and that the unions were by then not really suited to cooperating in change; ultimately it turned into a battle Drat mentioned Yorkshire .. I found this on a mining forum ..wondered if anyone from the Lancashire side can throw any light on this ?? In my neck of the woods in Lancashire the mining industry had virtually closed down anyway by the time of the strike so it wasn't such a big deal as it was in Yorkshire. My grandad who had not long retired from the pits took the attitude that the strike was a waste of time and Scargill was an idiot playing into Maggie's hands. The pits were going to close anyway. He thought mining was a tulip job and we were better off with the pits shut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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