Israeli politics

[Jareth]

Falter leads a group of political activists founded in response to the 2014 Israel-Gaza offensive. It is neither antisemitic or anything other than bleeding obvious that this guy's team is the Israeli state. You'll also have noticed that the UK's antisemitism tsar John Mann has been actively in conflict with this bloke as they fight over who gets to call other people antisemitic. Who am I to draw conclusions though. 

 

 

 

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What is CAA, the group headed by campaigner in Met police antisemitism row?

Campaign Against Antisemitism, led by Gideon Falter, was set up by activists who felt existing groups were not doing enough

• Home Office considered antisemitism campaigner for counter-extremism unit

 

Who is the Campaign Against Antisemitism?

The group, which is led by Gideon Falter, was founded in response to the 2014 Israel-Gaza offensive, by a group of activists concerned about rising antisemitism and who believed some Jewish communal organisations such as the Board of Deputies were not doing enough to robustly combat antisemitism at protests and in the media.

 

Its first protest was against the Tricycle Theatre in London, which had cancelled hosting the UK Jewish film festival while it was partly funded by the Israeli embassy, though the theatre had initially offered to find alternative funding.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/apr/26/who-is-the-caa-gideon-falter-met-police-openly-jewish-antisemitism-row

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Falter leads a group of political activists founded in response to the 2014 Israel-Gaza offensive. It is neither antisemitic or anything other than bleeding obvious that this guy's team is the Israeli state. You'll also have noticed that the UK's antisemitism tsar John Mann has been actively in conflict with this bloke as they fight over who gets to call other people antisemitic. Who am I to draw conclusions though. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/apr/26/who-is-the-caa-gideon-falter-met-police-openly-jewish-antisemitism-row

Falter leads a group of political activists founded as a result of the rise in antisemitism in the UK brought about by the 2014 Israel Gaza conflict.

You see the difference between mine and yours? They campaign on AS not Israel you have to take that at face value unless you have proof otherwise and you don’t. 
Yes he clearly is “Team Israel” as you put it but that does not make what you’ve said any less anti-Semitic.

His actions that day were in support of his perceived right as a Jew to walk through a pro-Palestine March. He was wrong, he didn’t have that right. I’m completely inside with the Policeman’s actions but he wasn’t attempting to walk through that crowd with an Israeli flag, he was attempting to walk through that crowd as an obviously identifiable Jew to stoke up tension and cause conflict, no doubts about it but It was as a Jew not an Israeli or a pro-Israeli supporter

It really is simple but you don’t ever seem to get it

[Jareth]

26 minutes ago, bickster said:

Falter leads a group of political activists founded as a result of the rise in antisemitism in the UK brought about by the 2014 Israel Gaza conflict.

You see the difference between mine and yours? They campaign on AS not Israel you have to take that at face value unless you have proof otherwise and you don’t. 
Yes he clearly is “Team Israel” as you put it but that does not make what you’ve said any less anti-Semitic.

His actions that day were in support of his perceived right as a Jew to walk through a pro-Palestine March. He was wrong, he didn’t have that right. I’m completely inside with the Policeman’s actions but he wasn’t attempting to walk through that crowd with an Israeli flag, he was attempting to walk through that crowd as an obviously identifiable Jew to stoke up tension and cause conflict, no doubts about it but It was as a Jew not an Israeli or a pro-Israeli supporter

It really is simple but you don’t ever seem to get it

I think the word the policeman used was 'disingenuous' to describe Falter's actions. He was not casually on his way somewhere, he was there to provoke conflict and had been lingering for some time. It is quite a remarkable coincidence that he is also a professional, long standing political activist. I don't choose to afford him, 'his' version of events, at all. But we differ. 

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I think the word the policeman used was 'disingenuous' to describe Falter's actions. He was not casually on his way somewhere, he was there to provoke conflict and had been lingering for some time. It is quite a remarkable coincidence that he is also a professional, long standing political activist. I don't choose to afford him, 'his' version of events, at all. But we differ. 

If a group of demonstrators can't handle a Jew without Israeli flags or anything else going through their protest he's proving his point completely. Do you not get that? The guy is a provocateur but if we can't handle someone who's got different opinions to ourselves walking through our demonstrations we're moving quickly away from the freedoms a democracy affords. But I guess that is the place our society is at now. People who protest (especially if they're younger), want people cancelled, removed, censured, gagged and whatnot for not holding their opinions.

Edited April 28 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

Just now, magnkarl said:

If a group of demonstrators can't handle a Jew without Israeli flags or anything else going through their protest he's proving his point completely. Do you not get that?

They didn't meet - the police did their job - and on the back of that there was a campaign to get the head of the met sacked. 

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

They didn't meet - the police did their job - and on the back of that there was a campaign to get the head of the met sacked. 

That was the point of the provocateur though. We're at a point where the police has to step in to preserve peace rather than letting someone with differing opinions to someone else simply walk through a group of people. It's a sad state of affairs for everyone involved, not least the freedoms we have in our democracy. 

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

That was the point of the provocateur though. We're at a point where the police has to step in to preserve peace rather than letting someone with differing opinions to someone else simply walk through a group of people. It's a sad state of affairs for everyone involved, not least the freedoms we have in our democracy. 

Well there's a very obvious way to settle the matter, at the next march Falter should be allowed to cross the road, from A to B, and if he gets attacked doing so then he has a point. 

[bickster]

25 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I think the word the policeman used was 'disingenuous' to describe Falter's actions. He was not casually on his way somewhere, he was there to provoke conflict and had been lingering for some time. It is quite a remarkable coincidence that he is also a professional, long standing political activist. I don't choose to afford him, 'his' version of events, at all. But we differ. 

You are the sort of person who walks blindly forward in front of a.big neon sign that says trap with an arrow pointing to the trap and just triggers the trap anyway.

What you do and many others is not tip toe round the trap and then YOU become the agent of the opinion you are in opposition to, you are literally doing their work for them. It is just so unintelligent.

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

You are the sort of person who walks blindly forward in front of a.big neon sign that says trap with an arrow pointing to the trap and just triggers the trap anyway.

What you do and many others is not tip toe round the trap and then YOU become the agent of the opinion you are in opposition to, you are literally doing their work for them. It is just so unintelligent.

Tip toeing around traps? Falter's actions were ludicrous, possibly the worst planned, worst executed trap in recent history, if recognising that is to give him the win then so be it, Falter 1 - everyone else 0. 

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, Jareth said:

They didn't meet - the police did their job - and on the back of that there was a campaign to get the head of the met sacked. 

Actually, he’d already stepped off the pavement and into the march a number of times, which is why the policeman called what he said disingenuous.

On the back of that there was a campaign to get the Chief Constable sacked, that is correct… until the full story came out and the likes of Braverman were shown up to be exactly what they were.

Also if the idea was to get he chief constable sacked then he would be an agent provocateur of the Tory Party, I doubt Israel give a shit about Mark Rowley but the Tories definitely do hence the campaign demonstrably run by them to oust him and get the current (non Peel principled) CC of Greater Manchester in position instead. 

[bickster]

Just now, Jareth said:

Tip toeing around traps? Falter's actions were ludicrous, possibly the worst planned, worst executed trap in recent history, if recognising that is to give him the win then so be it, Falter 1 - everyone else 0. 

Yes and you still fell into the trap

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Yes and you still fell into the trap

There's a shocking amount of US students falling into traps - it's almost as though they don't give a monkeys.

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

No it really doesn’t, there is no middle ground here. There’s no sort of, you can’t be sort of black or sort of French. You either are or you aren’t. Israeli provocateur implies he was undertaking his actions at the behest of the state of Israel. There is literally no evidence of this. So he should be regarded as a Jewish rights campaigner until such times as actual evidence exists

To say what Jareth says is actually giving this arsehole what he wants

mmmm, yes and no, the one drop of black blood debate isn’t really one for this thread, I’ll steer clear of that. But yes I concede that using the same security personnel (from a company set up by ex mossad people) that the Israeli politicians have used when they’ve visited the UK does not make him in any way have any connection with official Israeli politics. 

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, Jareth said:

There's a shocking amount of US students falling into traps - it's almost as though they don't give a monkeys.

Is there a point to this post? Lots of US students are as wrong as you. What is the point you’re attempting to make? 

[Jareth]

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

Is there a point to this post? Lots of US students are as wrong as you. What is the point you’re attempting to make? 

Well it's the reverse point you are making - what do people do about the current situation? Say nothing but disagree strongly, and avoid those traps you describe, or take action? The only action I take is to hurl Israeli radishes out of reach in Asda, not in an antisemitic rage but because our own government refuses to sanction them for some appaling recent behaviour. The US students obviously go stronger and possibly have jeopardised their futures. Why does anybody care? Well that's for each of us to choose. 

[bickster]

33 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Well it's the reverse point you are making - what do people do about the current situation? Say nothing but disagree strongly, and avoid those traps you describe, or take action? The only action I take is to hurl Israeli radishes out of reach in Asda, not in an antisemitic rage but because our own government refuses to sanction them for some appaling recent behaviour. The US students obviously go stronger and possibly have jeopardised their futures. Why does anybody care? Well that's for each of us to choose. 

Say what they like but stop conflating Israel with Jews. It really isn’t that hard to grasp. It’s one of the least contentious parts of the widely accepted definition of anti-semitism and it isn’t hard to do.

[magnkarl]

5 hours ago, Jareth said:

Well it's the reverse point you are making - what do people do about the current situation? Say nothing but disagree strongly, and avoid those traps you describe, or take action? The only action I take is to hurl Israeli radishes out of reach in Asda, not in an antisemitic rage but because our own government refuses to sanction them for some appaling recent behaviour. The US students obviously go stronger and possibly have jeopardised their futures. Why does anybody care? Well that's for each of us to choose. 

For starters, don't shout abuse at Jews on US campuses for being Jews. Don't intimidate them, don't use Israel as a weapon to attack a tiny minority that you've been craving to attack and blame it on Israel when those people are neither in Israel or have anything to do with the war. It's really that simple. I don't know why people struggle so much about this with Jews. Do you also go around abusing everyone who's an orthodox Christian for what Russia is doing, or everyone Shia for what Iran is doing?

Edited April 28 by magnkarl