snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Where were you yesterday? Where are you going tonight? What are you doing talking to him? How much do you earn? Who did you vote for last election? Why do you think what you think? What laws have you broken? Sorry Snowy but that is a totally different thing. The ID card would not have any sort of tracking device in it so those questions surely have no relevance The point being made is a fair one, there are various times in modern life where ID is needed and currently you have to provide it. Like anything in life there will always be a risk of forgery and if an ID card was just a piece of laminated card with a photo on it then this would be easy and simple to copy. Ian, my retort with those questions was to the poster who had 'nothing to hide'. My questions were meant to show that actually there is a point at which everyone says, "Woah, this is mine and not yours to demand". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Oops sorry - thought the reply was to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Very dramatical, but well over the top. I think you mean very dramatic. And intersting to see that you chose to answer none of the questions. Something to hide? You are always asked for id anyway. No, I'm not. I never carry ID with me. I am never asked for it. Must admit I have not read into it as not fussed, but if it stops people coming into this country and working when they are not entitled, amongst other things, I am quite happy. Furthermore, it will stop some fraud, me thinks. Well as you 'have not read into it as not fussed', I'd suggest that the opinion you propounded is self-evidently uninformed. As such, what you suggest it may or may not do is pure invention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Oops sorry - thought the reply was to me. No worries. What form of ID does one require to register to vote? Well for a start a birth certificate I think one only needs to fill out the form sent annually to households by local councils in order to be registered to vote ~(hence that kerfuffle earlier in the year about kids getting to vote - one thread on here IIRC). What form of ID does one require to join a library? Well that one surprised me I must admit, but Derbyshire libraries insisted on Photo ID before setting up a card. Acceptable versions of the ID were passport and / or drivers license Really? :shock: They must have some expensive books (or untrustworthy locals) in Derbys, then. I had to show the address bit of a bank statement (or utility bill). To get 'foreign money', I walk into my local post office (where there still is one) and present my pounds sterling and ask the nice lady or chap behind the counter to exchange it for me. Nope - you have to provide ID in any Bureau De Exchange (you know the travelex) etc when paying by card. If you pay by cash it is not needed Yes, but that's for you rich bods who get their euros/dollars/Zimbabwean agrocheques from cards. :winkold: Us in the crowd make do with the very pleasant service made available by the GPO (sorry - Post Office ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 8, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2008 You are always asked for id anyway. Do you know how Maxine Carr was found to be lying, it was from her tesco loyalty card. She was shown to have bought loads of cleaning material. Thats bad as well, I suppose. Totally sep[arate issue but similar I suppose Strange as it may seem but I am actually sitting here typing this in a T-shirt that actually has printed on it "NO I Do Not Have A Fu*King Nectar Card" The fact that people are prepared to give away the story of their lives for often less than 1% of their shopping bill totals always amazes me Do you realise how valuable that information is to the peopl that run the cards Loyalty cards are the devils work - seriously, rip them all up now, stop giving multinational companies ways of exploiting you more effectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Loyalty cards are the devils work - seriously, rip them all up now, stop giving multinational companies ways of exploiting you more effectively Two business class flights to Barbados - 10 nights paid for in hotels - damn you devil - but thank you loyalty card :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 8, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2008 but if it stops people coming into this country and working when they are not entitled, amongst other things, I am quite happy. Furthermore, it will stop some fraud, me thinks. illegal immigrants, are they really that much of a problem? Is the country totally over-run with them? Thought not thats just xenophobic nonsense. Even half the poles are going back to Poland because they can make more money there, Seriously you think illegal immigrants are coming here and stealing "our" jobs? Does it really matter? They will only be doing jobs that no one else will do anyway What fraud is it going to stop? Please, how do you come to that conclusion? Did you read the two articles I posted (one from the Times and one from the Guardian - for balance naturally) you admit you haven't read much into it, please please please do that, this has absolutely sod all to do with your fears and paranoid feelings, thats just what the Govt want you to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Money talks. A true free person need not prove anything. A true free person will not pay taxes and be totally self sufficient. No law enforcement requirement. No refuse collection. No electricity requirement. No Euro/ WHO trade dependency. We rely on the Gov't to help us. They control us. Very submissive But true....... Anyway, slightly off topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 but if it stops people coming into this country and working when they are not entitled, amongst other things, I am quite happy. Furthermore, it will stop some fraud, me thinks. If it makes it harder surely it stops some fraud, if only for a while. Illegal immigrants impact hugely on the infrastructure to this country. Over immigration also impacts on services. (Health/ benefits/ ejewcayshon etc) Immigrants who work and positively contribute are an obvious help. "They" don't steal our jobs. "They" are just less work shy than our our benefit state underclass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Can you tell me how 'illegal' immigration impacts negatively on education, benefits, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Can you tell me how 'illegal' immigration impacts negatively on education, benefits, etc.? They don't get deported. They end up staying. They get it for free. They don't work. They bring other family members over. They have these cases highlighted and more do it. Perpetual problem. In really simplified forms: Do illegal immigrants get hospital treatment? Do they pay? Do they get housed? Do they pay? Do their children get educated? Do they pay? If they commit crime - who pays for criminal justice/ losses? Who pays for incarceration/ drug treatment orders/ probation/ re-settlement. How many are actually deported? If these aren't detrimental? Off topic again though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 8, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2008 Loyalty cards are the devils work - seriously, rip them all up now, stop giving multinational companies ways of exploiting you more effectively Two business class flights to Barbados - 10 nights paid for in hotels - damn you devil - but thank you loyalty card :-) Are you really that cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 PMK, What a load of old crap, mate. If someone is illegal then they do not avail themselves of benefits, housing, etc. There might well be a big problem with illegal immigration but it is not in the arena of welfare but most likely the black economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 PMK, What a load of old crap, mate. If someone is illegal then they do not avail themselves of benefits, housing, etc. There might well be a big problem with illegal immigration but it is not in the arena of welfare but most likely the black economy. Disagree. PM coming! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanfromluton Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 You are always asked for id anyway. Do you know how Maxine Carr was found to be lying, it was from her tesco loyalty card. She was shown to have bought loads of cleaning material. Thats bad as well, I suppose. Totally sep[arate issue but similar I suppose Strange as it may seem but I am actually sitting here typing this in a T-shirt that actually has printed on it "NO I Do Not Have A Fu*King Nectar Card" The fact that people are prepared to give away the story of their lives for often less than 1% of their shopping bill totals always amazes me Do you realise how valuable that information is to the peopl that run the cards Loyalty cards are the devils work - seriously, rip them all up now, stop giving multinational companies ways of exploiting you more effectively I understand in a way what you are saying, but deviils work - was Maxine Carr an angel then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 8, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2008 I've voted. I've never had to show my BC to do so. I've changed lots of of money and again never had to show ID to do so (other than bank cards on occasion, where it came from my or work's bank. And that's how it should be. ID cards are just not worth the hassle - for all the civil liberities arguments, all the rest of the philosophical discussion, for me the only obstacles that commend them by default are ones put there by beaurocracy. ie. the Gov't puts obstacles there, that persuade people that "oh it's easier just to get an ID card". There's no natural reason for 'em, and no prospect of them being cost effective, or secure. They are a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanfromluton Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Very dramatical, but well over the top. I think you mean very dramatic. And intersting to see that you chose to answer none of the questions. Something to hide? You are always asked for id anyway. No, I'm not. I never carry ID with me. I am never asked for it. Must admit I have not read into it as not fussed, but if it stops people coming into this country and working when they are not entitled, amongst other things, I am quite happy. Furthermore, it will stop some fraud, me thinks. Well as you 'have not read into it as not fussed', I'd suggest that the opinion you propounded is self-evidently uninformed. As such, what you suggest it may or may not do is pure invention. Take the pi55 if you want over the internet, do you know how much emphasis it has in words rather than in person face to face? I have nothing to hide at all.As for not reading into things, I am involved in fraud issues, so even though I respect your views, I totally disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 8, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2008 Maxine Carr is irrelevant bullshit, An ID card wouldn't have stopped Ian Huntly, it wouldn't have stopped 9/11 and it wouldn't have stopped the London bombings or anytrhing else Nor would it stop any fraud nor would it stop illegal immigration in fact illegal immigrants would still get loyalty cards because arrrrghhhhhh loyalty cards are just a way of getting dumb idiots to give away their personal info really cheaply, they don't ask for a passport when you get one Think about this, did they track down Huntly and Carr because they used a tesco Loyalty Card? Nope that was good old fashioned police work Did the police use good old fashioned police work to fit up Barry George? nope and they got found out - eventually You start introducing all this biometric bollocks into our lives and the police will soon find a way to fit up people biometrically too and the thing is, people have faith in technology, its foolproof at least they question good old fashioned policework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Take the pi55 if you want over the internet, do you know how much emphasis it has in words rather than in person face to face? I'm not quite sure what you are on about here? I'm not taking the piss, I am taking you at your word (which you admit you haven't informed yourself about). If you are posting to 'call me out' on an internet forum then I suggest you are the one with the problem, me old china. As for not reading into things, I am involved in fraud issues, so even though I respect your views, I totally disagree Would you like to explain to all of us not 'involved' in fraud issues, how this will actually help to prevent fraud, then, please? On the 'not reading into things', I was just, again, taking you at your word which was: As for not reading into things as not fussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanfromluton Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Thought I'd said it before but will do so again in smaller talk Bickster, Maxine Carr was irrelevant bullshit as you quaintly say, it was only two young children that she had involvelment with. She had no involvement in your opinion? Can I ask a question, if it was your daughter, would you have no problems with Maxine saying the same thing l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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