Remembering the Great

[JohnCresswell]

John Lerwill writes regarding the idea of a statue at VP, and puts forward his candidates.

The issue concerning the planned William McGregor statue comes up from time to time. Particularly that there’s a way to go to obtain the requisite £50,000 to have it made and installed. I am happy with the idea of a William McGregor statue; but…

As I understand it, the raison d’etre behind this particular statue is because of Mac’s great work in bringing the Football League to fruition. Not so much because of his work for the Villa (which I suspect many do not know much about) but for this one act that helps to put Aston Villa – not really William McGregor – back on the Football World Map. Don’t get me wrong, his initiative and wherewithal to move the matter forward is highly commendable, and we indeed should be honoured that Mac was first and foremost a Villan. His work associated with the Football League (he was chairman for its first four years in operation) was a marvellous contribution in its embryonic period.

But this fixation that Villa should be made more famous for this one act does not put a proper reflection on the club. There is far more reason for the football world to remember and celebrate Aston Villa.

For example: How many people realise that when George Ramsay retired in 1926, he was the most celebrated club secretary in the world of football. That he had spent 40 years in the job at the Villa and was a major reason for its rise as the greatest club of its age. Overall, he spent 60 years with the club, as he first arrived in 1876 and was the man – as player, and captain - who first directed the style of the club to its ultimate glory, before he had to retire from playing in 1880. He continued as a highly active member of the committee before being appointed the first paid secretary at the club in 1886. Even after retirement from the post as secretary, he was soon after made a vice-president and in that role continued to be a fine ambassador for the club until his death at the end of 1935.

Effectively, Aston Villa was the work of George Burrell Ramsay – he was the architect of its infrastructure. It was not until after he died – ironically at the end of the season in which he died – that the club was first relegated from the top flight.

But – and this is where William McGregor comes into focus again – GBR’s fame was brought about by the work of Mac, who had been struggling as the club’s Hon. Sec. *and* Hon. Treasurer in the year up to 1886. In that year, Mac (and this was perhaps his second great act for the club, for he earlier led a reorganisation of the Villa administration to clear out serious deadwood)

encouraged the appointment of his fellow Scot (GBR) as the club’s paid secretary/manager. It was also the time of Fred Rinder’s first appearance on the Villa committee, and what wonders the three must have worked, as within 12 months the club’s morale had been recovered and they won the FA Cup – the first Midlands side to do so. What happened after that is generally well known; how it was that Fred Rinder led another organisational revolution in 1892, following which the club quickly rose to be the top club in the world. Fred Rinder became chairman in 1898 until he was ousted in 1925.

After the departure of Rinder then Ramsay, Villa did not appear in another peace-time cup final for over 30 years, and won no other peace-time senior trophy in the same period.

So, dear Villans, what is this article about?

There were many great men in the first 50 years of the club’s history. Several of those deserve special mention, not just one; but it has to be said that there were three men in this club that were the very cradle of its existence and great development – and its great influence on the world of football. It was not one man, despite the Football League.

I have put it to leaders of supporters’ groups; I have also put it to the club – that a memorial to the three men mentioned above is not just desirable, but essential. Yes, I would agree that McGregor deserves to be standing in front of the other two – but only so long as those other two are also remembered.

However, I am a lone – and ignored – voice in the desert. But a voice that probably is the only one who has bothered to do the 1,000 hours of research that substantiates my argument.

I leave it with you. If you can see the argument I am making, please use your voice to influence others.

Thank you very much.

My Villanous Best Regards,

John Lerwill

Pro-tem Archivist at AVFC

[markeefc]

I really like the idea of a statue, but think that we could perhaps do a 'time-line' type commemoration, from the earliest days of the club including all of the greats. For me this could then be added to over future generations as new greats come along.

[gmvillan]

Throwing in an American idea here - what about an AVFC "Hall of Fame/Museum" somewhere on site - where past players, managers, and all of these greats who have created our history can be honored. Each significant contributor to our past would be inducted into such a Hall and have a permanent plaque/bust detailing their achievements and contribution to AVFC. Those such as Rinder, MacGregor and Ramsay can have pride of place at such a location. I think one, or even three statues limits the club in who can be honored...... it could easily be argued that the greatest moment in the club's history should be remembered with a statue of the architect of that team - a man who was Small Heath's manager at the time......

[ClaretMahoney]

Here Here John Lerwill! Top class article, I only hope and wish your voice is heard by AVFC and the powers that be.

As for gmvillan, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure that there is a Hall of Fame/Museum-ish place that Villa already has built. The statue idea is for Trinity Lane I believe..

[OutByEaster?]

Well said Mr Lerwill.

I'd like to see this whole project relaunched, it seems to have stalled a bit and I think it needs all of the fan groups to come together (perhaps under the stewardship of someone within the club) to make it a reality.

A tribute to these three men would indeed be a fitting and suitable sight for visitors to Villa Park.

[Becker]

Excellent article John! Would be interesting to hear the views of the person who took initiative to the statue, though.

[John]

A well reasoned suggestion John. I wonder whether a statue that would be similar to the Boulton, Watt & Murdock one that many that live or visit Birmingham will be familiar with would prove much more costly than one that recognised one rather than three of these Villa greats?

I also like GMVillan's Hall of Fame suggestion and I seem to recall the new board are looking at this sort of thing as a work in progress. We have a proud history that has not been sufficiently recognised in the past but I'm confident that this will be something that the new board will be looking at to correct in the same way that they have already acted with the 82 squad.

[ianrobo1]

guess an hall of fame/museum would have to wait for the new North Stand but John's idea is IMHO a better one of just a statue of McGregor on his own.

from my reading of the history (far far far less than John's !!!) I would say ramsey and Rinder in terms of the club itself were more important but McGregor's was a voice in terms of the league system and setting that up ....

there is another thing about the way the Trust have gone around raising money buit that is not for this thread

the three of them should be on the statue but then there is a cost point.

[OldFart]

guess an hall of fame/museum would have to wait for the new North Stand but John's idea is IMHO a better one of just a statue of McGregor on his own.

from my reading of the history (far far far less than John's !!!) I would say ramsey and Rinder in terms of the club itself were more important but McGregor's was a voice in terms of the league system and setting that up ....

I agree 100% with this.

However, I am a lone – and ignored – voice in the desert. But a voice that probably is the only one who has bothered to do the 1,000 hours of research that substantiates my argument.

And therefore yours is a voice to be respected and we should not allow it to be ignored.

[ianrobo1]

John, have you approached the trust with your thoughts ?

[John_Lerwill]

Ian - I did make the point to the Trust last year - but it did not meet with an ecstatic response.

Many thanks to all for your comments.

The 'time-line' and 'hall of fame' ideas are certainly ones that I would like to go with. I'll see what I can do within the club about these matters.

[ianrobo1]

problem with teh time line is that there would be large gaps between between 57 and 74 and other occassions may not show us in the best light

[John_Lerwill]

problem with teh time line is that there would be large gaps between between 57 and 74 and other occassions may not show us in the best light

Good point - except really that the period is 1935 to 1974! Apart from 37-38 and 56-61, there was not a lot to shout about in that 40 years period.

:cry:

[ianrobo1]

too true John .....

I guess the museum is the best option and once you have finished your work and the north stand has been rebuilt we will have a magnificent attraction

[John_Lerwill]

I guess the museum is the best option and once you have finished your work and the north stand has been rebuilt we will have a magnificent attraction

Here's hoping and praying!