barry'sboots

Ban them. We wouldn't want Warnock and Milner (hopefully Emile won't be hear next year) reminded of that nightmare.

Trent, I can see where you are coming from but I think you have failed to deal with the fact that every time Nigel played last season we looked a better team? Two Liverpool performances where he was arguably MOTM, turned us around in the Peace Cup following Stan's injury, was very good (and very disciplined in his only holding role in a 4-4-2) against Bolton plus a few other games i.e. Spurs (draw), Fulham (home win) and Blues (away win). He didn't look as good in the Spurs game but I do think Nigel and Stan are not a good pairing. I think MON actually called him his "Makalele with legs" which suggests he wanted him to use his energy/pace. I am not sure you can have a holding midfielder in the Makalele sense when you are playing 4-4-2 as he will have to join in a bit unless you are playing very attacking full backs?

I think you've misread the title. The question is not who is the best player at their peak. Celtic are my second team, due to having a Glaswegian father, and I know how good Stan was as midfielder (although not a holding midfielder) in his time at Parkhead. We have never, unfortunately, seen that player at VP as he seemed to lose a lot of energy in his last season at Celtic. Believe me I wish we had got the player that he was but we haven't and, I suspect, he will never be that player again. Again, we know that this is MON's selection but this thread is about the debate as to which one is better suited to that role over the next couple of seasons? I think the right solution is a mix as AVFC PoB alluded to earlier. If we are playing 4-4-2 against the poorer sides then Nigel's energy and drive is my preferred solution - compare the Bolton game with West Ham, Wigan, Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn etc at home last year. If we are playing better sides with a 4-4-2 Petrov's calmness and ball retention probably wins out, although, especially against sides with three in CM, he needs to either be subbed or supplemented (4-3-3) later on as he tires and we get overrun/pushed back. I am sure that this would work well and would give Stan more time to rest up between appearances and he would be fitter against the better sides.

Whereas Stan would walk into Chelski or Manure in your mind?? Well I didn't sat that. However petrov is captain of our teammand I doubt NRC will ever become captain or such a regular player for a team as good as or better than us I thought your point was that NRC would never play at a better standard. My point was neither would Stan. Your response was to then argue that Stan is our captain???? This proves nothing except for where MON's preference lies. We all know MON's preference and the debate is, I suppose, whether MON is right or wrong in our eyes.

Whereas Stan would walk into Chelski or Manure in your mind??

Plus Milner is English and the UEFA rules mean that good English players will go at a premium.

I guess we'll see next year when he's playing in this front 6: ------------- Toure -------------------------------- ----------------------------- Barry ---------------- Silva ------------- Milner --------------- Johnson ------------ Tevez/Dzeko/Adebayor ------------ I think our Jimmy will score for fun in there and will match Lampard and Gerard's totals.

Never seen you present any stats to support this argument. Be very interested if you could. If you have just point me to your post that does. I am intrigued as to where you are getting your insight as to what Nigel believes about himself. Except for Nigel can do it for 90 minutes. If you believe Stan has the same energy levels as Nigel then you truly are blinkered in this respect??

Never being one to pass up the opportunity to make a list... -Danielle Galloppa (Parma) -Gökhan Inler (Udinese) -Alberto Zapater (Genoa) -Wálter Gargano (Napoli) -Marco Donadel (Fiorentina) -Antonio Nocerino (Palermo) -Cristian Daniel Ledesma (Lazio) -Nuri Sahin (Borussia Dortmund) -Piotr Trochowski (Hamburg) -Sejad Salihovic (1899 Hoffenheim) -Zdravko Kuzmanovic (VfB Stuttgart) -Zvjezdan Misimovic (VfL Wolfsburg) -Simon Rolfes (Bayer Leverkusen) -Marco Reus (Borussia Mönchengladbach) Some of those would cost a bit of money, some would be a bargain, some would be a risk but I believe all of those could do a job and are within our reach. Piece o' piss, this manager lark. Don't know a great deal about most of these as I don't watch much foreign footie but the ones that I recognise - Trochowski and Reus and - are not, if I am correct, holding midfielders?? I suspect MON knows even less than I do though.

I think what TRO is saying is that you need balance in a team and our team, particularly in a 4-4-2, lacks someone with a bit of aggression and forward drive in the centre of the park. Invariably, the player that does this in a 4-4-2 will not be a "footballer". If you look at NRCs performances last year we looked a much stronger outfit IMO on the limited occasions that he was allowed to play than when he didn't. He was the MOTM in the two Plop games I think, participated in home win against Fulham and away win against Blues, played in the home game against Spurs and the thrashing of Bolton. I thought he played an important part in every one of the games he played??

The best illustration of this for me is the difference between Spurs before and after Palacios joined. I don't believe Palacios is any better than NRC??

Yes. Lets sign Busquets and Xavi! Saying this is fine but where are the suggestions and is this a priority for us at the minute. I would personally love to see NRC given a run alongside Jimmy or more interestingly for me alongside Jimmy and Fabian in a 3 man CM.

Think you may be looking through claret and blue glasses there. Not heard that a deal for McGeady is done. Most players if are asked a question about a player are just giving an answer. This was my take on Stan. He was asked if McGeady would be a good signing and responded that he thought he would do a good job at Villa if he did come although he didn't know whether he was or not. He is not putting a shirt on him, was not imploring him to come and we are not posting on the official site that McGeady must be keen to come to Villa Park unless I have missed this.

This is the consistent response of those that prefer Stan and I just don't buy it. Bolton finished the league in 14th position ahead of Wolves, Wigan and West Ham, all of whom we failed to break down at home with MON's preferred DCM - Stan. This was, as I said, the only chance that Nigel got in a 4-4-2 with an attacking CM partner and he was very good and very disciplined (which was Jonno's question mark I believe). I accept that he is not an Alonso or Huddlestone but his short passing was consistently good, when given a chance, last year and I feel he creates a much better tempo with his drive and energy. The lesser teams will not take us on for football but they do have energy and can press us/overcrowd us, which I think negates Stan's footballing ability, forces him to look back for an outlet and allows them to get ten men behind the ball which we then struggle to break down. Nigel is much more direct and wants to drive or pass forward - doesn't always work (forward passes are obviously much more risky than sideways/backwards) but when it does it can open up these poorer sides. Against the better sides, if we are playing 4-4-2 which I wouldn't, Stan's calmness and ball retention is probably more suited, although I still think he tires after 60 and either needs to be supplemented (with a switch to 3 man CM) or subbed to give us some energy and push back.

I think you are wrong here. I have changed my mind somewhat over the last 12 months. I can now see a starting XI with Stan in it BUT only if MON recognises that he either needs to play a three man CM (at least for part of the game) or sub Stan when he tires after 60 minutes or so. But even here I think there are some games that would be better suited for NRC to start ahead of Stan. I think our back 4 should be fairly steady and not changed ad hoc but the front 6 should be much more fluid and interchangeable (starting XI and substitutions) if we are not going to burn out again and to keep the opposition guessing as we are too predictable at the minute. Did you go to the Bolton home game last year Jonno? NRC sat in front of the back 4 and Sidwell was much more advanced. The only chance that NRC had last year in competitive football in a 4-4-2 with a more attacking CM'er in front of him and he seemed to accept this role pretty well to me.

We disagree on many things but I completely agree on this. Delph is a footballer/playmaker and I don't believe he has the physique/tackling ability (at least at the minute) to be a holding CM'er. I think he is ideally suited to a three man midfield, as he demonstrated in the first 25 mins against Man U at VP.

I agree. I think that their approach is really disrespectful - even their official site is speculating on Milner's move. This is wrong. Not quite at the Barcelona level but not far off. Uefa really need to step in and stop this.

By short term I assume you mean for the first 60 minutes of a game??

NRC is a better short term option as far as I am concerned!! His energy is what we desperately need if MON is going to persist with a 4-4-2.

I think we need 5: - right back: although I would love a U-turn on Young but I can't see this. I really hope we don't go into the new season with Carlos and no cover at a minimum - right wing: I would love to see Bentley or N'Zogbia coming in to compete/rotate/offer a bench option with Ash and DJ - striker: Doyle for me. - left back cover: not sure who - CM cover: one of Dorrans/O'Hara/Prince Boateng to replace Sidwell and Gardner, particularly with Delph out until X-mas This assumes Sidwell, Heskey, Shorey, Beye, Young (?) and Davies move on with Gardner obviously having gone pre-season. Would give a net spend of circa £20m. Consistent with previous years and matching FXPro cash? If Milner goes then we would need a replacement for him and I would guess everyone's favourite would be Ireland, although I would also want Hart and Onahua (to fill the right back slot). That would give 7 new signings.

So glad we steered well clear of Hitzlesperger. One of the few Premier League players that Barry and Stan will be able to outsprint and offers little more than a decent shot, unless he has come on materially since his time at VP.

Uninspired. I was really hoping that having Nike as a kit partner would lead to something a bit more innovative - not in terms of design but in terms of the structure of the shirt etc. - similar to England's rugby jerseys but I have seen no evidence of this.

-------------------- Siegrist ------------------- [?] ---------- Clark ---------- Baker -------- [?] --------------[?] ------------- Bannan --------- Gabby ------------- Gardner ---------- Grealish ------------------- The Fonz ------------------- 6 or 7 of a future XI home grown - an interesting prospect??

I really hope Jack turns out to be the next Adam Johnson x 10 (as SCG believes) as it would be fantastic to have our own "Rooney" knocking balls in for Gabby, the Fonz and Gary Gardner to put away with Kieran Clark overseeing it all as captain. Although, as AVFC PoB says, I believe it is really difficult to call someone's future at that age. All the talent in the world still requires all the hard work, dedication and a bit of luck (injuries etc.) to ensure that a player comes through. But like the majority on this site, I am keeping everything crossed for him.

Names??