KangarooVillan

I actually think the most confusing thing is that both Watkins and Ings would be looking at the World Cup.

As strange as this might sound, it sorta seems easier for either of them to get in that squad as a ST as opposed to a winger. Not even HWMNBN could get a look in on a wing in the Euros.

Will be interesting to see - but to me that says they have to play centrally in a weird kind of rotating ST and second ST arrangement. If Ollie or Ings want to play for England it won’t be off the left or right IMO. 

5 minutes ago, paul514 said:

No way is he an 8 he plays DCM and CB

His stats are pretty weird considering that - fairly poor defensive numbers considering the above, and those passing numbers are shocking.

I’m assuming the assists are from dead balls?

2 hours ago, Steero113 said:

Why have I just read 4 pages of Douglas Luiz bashing and a striker drama on the transfer thread??

@Steero113 welcome to VT, you must be new here...

2 hours ago, tomav84 said:

Long pass completion %: - we don't play that way - as shown by luiz's 200 fewer attempted long passes so not concerned about that. that's the only stat where there's a noticeable difference

why would you exclude certain shot creating actions when it's a key part of his game? it's like a striker with a clinical long shot but excluding his shots on target from outside the area!

he's not just 'good' at set pieces...he's one of the best in the world. dunno about you, but i've stopped cheering and clapping when we get a corner or dangerous free kick now...it's been pointless getting excited about for a while now. i'd personally like that to change.

the fact that he's comparatively as good and in most cases better statistically than what we have at the other aspects of his game, he's an absolute no brainer.

it's all probably moot anyway because there's no way they'll sell now

The reason the differentiation between live SCA and dead ball SCA is important, is because we have Bailey and Young now. They’re not JWP level but they’re not far off either - so I don’t see the point in getting another midfielder who is statistically similar to what we currently have just for set pieces. Especially for anything over £30 million.

There’s enough complaints on here as it stands that our mids are too one dimensional - JWP is a good player but he’s more of the same (set pieces aside).

7 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Right, had enough of this, ' time to call the firing line squad' for you lot, no madness allowed.

Tammy could out score Ings and put in better performances and people on VT would still say Ings is better because he's at Villa now.

people have there Ings Thongs on and Ings Teddy on the bed already i see ..

 

 

In my opinion it’s more a positional flexibility thing, which again Smith likes. Ings is agile and creative enough on the ball to cut in from the left, to drop deep into more of a 10 roll and dynamically swap and change with Ollie.

Tammy isn’t. Tammy is a good ST, but is a square peg in a round hole at just about everything else. That’s why he didn’t end up here, and also why he would wasn’t getting a look in at Chelsea despite them no signing Lukaku.

16 hours ago, tomav84 said:

shot creating actions per 90

Luiz = 1.49

JWP = 2.21

tackle success rate

Luiz = 29.5%

JWP = 39.2%

interceptions

Luiz = 33

JWP = 44

pressure success rate

luiz = 25.9%

JWP = 32.9%

i could go on....

Please, go on, because you’ve listed is mostly garbage.

You haven’t excluded dead ball shot creating actions (as per my original point), you’ve made a bad statistical comparison on interceptions, and you’ve literally just chosen stats where he’s slightly higher.

Shot creating actions pass live per 90:

Luiz: 1.36

JWP: 1.03

Interceptions per 90:

Luiz: 1.07

JWP: 1.16

Dribbles per 90:

Luiz: 0.78

JWP: 0.39

Dribble success %:

Luiz: 72.7

JWP: 65.2

Pass completion %:

Luiz: 84.8

JWP: 80.8

Long pass completion %:

Luiz: 74.8

JWP: 43.0

I could go on...

8 hours ago, paul514 said:

Koopmeiners 

Is Koopmeiners even a CDM? He seems more like an 8?

7 hours ago, TRO said:

for damn sure....that was as you say the crucial bit....and for Danny Ings being aware of that ,says a lot for Danny Ings.

It helps when there’s money on the table to sign an NDA!

2 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Goals scored ? Assists? Minutes played ? Can't imagine they are remotely similar?

Goals and assists are much better, yes. But everything else is Luiz level. With Bailey and young in the lineup, I don’t see the point in getting another midfielder just like Luiz for his set piece contribution.

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'd love to see what the 100 mill does for our FFP etc, has anyone done a proper breakdown yet.

I kind of agree with you though, it's about balancing the books Vs ambition vs Not throwing too much at the squad at once and possibly disrupting it.

The other view is that, if we want to seemleassly achieve whatever the aim was, without Jack this year, we need more.

We will also be trying not to get fleeced by clubs and wasting that profit we brought in.

Wouldn't be surprised if it explodes closer to windows end though.

We don't have a back up LB do we?

I don't think we're done, but I don't see us making stupid moves either.

If we could say, finish top 8, with the current squad, and a healthy bank balance this season + New endorsement deals, new kit deal, Adidas? We are sitting pretty.

Thing is, this window might present a unique opportunity to get players in, we potentially couldn't have before.

@Czarnikjak does a pretty awesome breakdown here:

5 hours ago, brummybloke said:

Luckily, we've just acquired that exact amount.

While they don't scream major excitement, the middle needs to be solid. We have 4 attackers newly in the door add in these 2 and we have energy pressing skill power and players comfortable with the ball all over the pitch.

With the emerging youth players, mgginn,luiz,Nakamba el ghazi traore trez conner the midfield will be well stocked and could see 2 of el ghazi, mgginn, conner luiz being sold before the window shuts.

JWP stats are basically the same as Luiz, why would you sell one and buy the other for more??

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Well i'm certain Rodri probably had less last ditch stuff to do defensively, ( Blocks etc ) for obvious reasons however, Aerial duels, tackles and Clearances stand out to me.

To me this still makes Rodri a superior player, i'd be interested to see the rest of his stats.

Aside from that, you realise the quotes I posted weren't necessarily about the individual player right?

It was more to point out the myth that DMs and Holding Mids aren't a thing anymore apparently.

Yet in Citys final against Chelsea, most would agree that, his failure to play one, is what cost them tthe match.

Guess which player ran the show that day? A tiny little midfielder... who is good at everything, notably, breaking up play.

Tbh I think the blocks thing is how our game plan is designed - a lot of our players have a decent amount of blocks and it’s one thing I noticed last year, we’d be hemmed in the box and block like our lives depended on it.

I don’t think the DM is a myth - I am wary though of people using Rodri’s defensive game as an example of what we need as those articles did. Rodri is the better player, but defensively they’re similar.

RE Luiz, I don’t think he had his best season last year - we still conceded the 6th fewest goals though so we must be doing something right. Additionally, there’s some good posts on the Luiz thread about the Barkley impact on the overall team defence. I do think Smith is looking more at the overall team’s ability to press and pressure, which DM or not is the blueprint with Man City and Liverpool.

And re Kante, when he was Dougie’s age he was playing in Ligue 2 - Doug has all the tools to be a similar player and re capture his form post lockdown 19/20.

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

Salary cap is the only way to solve the lack of competition in football. Prem is richest league so can impose one to increase competition. No cap based on turnover or anything like that. A set cap for the 25 man squad

100% - directive probably needs to come from FIFA though - can’t see any league taking the initiative for fear of weakening their league and strengthening others.

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Its a lot more than just 9 games if you consider the games where Barkley was only on as a sub or was subbed off early(Brighton game due to injury). The following is the list of games I've checked which meet that criteria. I'm also ignoring games where Luiz didn't start obviously. If there's mistakes in my information below point them out please because to get this information its a bit tedious and therefore prone to  error.

v Sheffield(H)-Conceded 0 goals.

v Fulham(A)-Conceded 0 goals.

v Brighton(A)-Conceded 2 goals

v West Ham(A)-Conceded 2 goals

v Wolves(A)-Conceded 0 goals

v West Brom(A)-Conceded 0 goals

v Palace(H)-Conceded 0 goals

v Chelsea(A)-Conceded 1 goal

V United(A)-Conceded 2 goals

V Wolves(H)-Conceded 0 goals

V Newcastle(A)-Conceded 1 goals

V Tottenham(H)-Conceded 2 goals

V Liverpool(A)-Conceded 2 goals

V Man City(H)-Conceded 2 goals

V Palace(A)-Conceded 3 goals

 

That still comes out to about 1.13 goals conceded per game.

 

If we're only looking at the games where Barkley didn't appear in at all and Luiz appeared in, even as a sub. its just the following. Again, if there are any mistakes please point them out.

v Sheffield(H)-Conceded 0 goals.

v Fulham(A)-Conceded 0 goals.

v West Ham(A)-Conceded 2 goals

v Wolves(A)-Conceded 0 goals

v West Brom(A)-Conceded 0 goals

v Palace(H)-Conceded 0 goals

v Chelsea(A)-Conceded 1 goal

V United(A)-Conceded 2 goals

V Wolves(H)-Conceded 0 goals

V Palace(A)-Conceded 3 goals

V Tottenham(A)-Conceded 2 goals

 

Which comes out to 0.90 goals conceded per game for 11 games so even then, I'm still disputing the figure you cited and this would be the less accurate figure for our purposes(measuring the impact of Luiz on the team's defence without Barkley)

I like the way you operate

9 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

Luiz’s stats

Rodri’s stats:

I wouldn’t exactly say Rodri is a crushing DM, they’re very similar, so what’s your point??

1 hour ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Pape Matar Sarr. He can play DCM, CM or AMC. Young, huge potential, already got lots of first team experience. Covers all bases for me.

Bit of a stretch - he’s made like 23 appearances in the first team and half of those were as a sub.

Just now, WHY said:

Doesn’t move the ball quickly enough when he receives it, he dwells on it too long. Like I said football is about opinions, if you think he’s good, then that’s your choice.

I’m sorry, but if dwells on it too long doesn’t imply he gets dispossessed too often, I don’t know what does. So did your initial comment.

I’m all for differing opinion, what I’m less in to is people just making s*** up to criticise a Villa player.

4 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said:

A question for you on here . Do you think we would have gone for him for £25 million now we have the scouting analysis in place. If he had played elsewhere the last 2 years ? 

 

And second question would you be happy he is sold based on the above ?

Nothing serious.Just based on the last weeks shenanigans can you take the emotion that' he is our player and he can get better next season ' when based purely on stats he is nowhere near our starting 11.

Based on Alavarez, most people would tear off the selling clubs arm to sign him now if he played for a different club.

People forget that without him we would have been playing Championship last year.

15 minutes ago, WHY said:

Squad player imo, he isn’t strong or athletic enough to play as a DM. He also has a horrible habit of thinking he has all the time in the world on the ball.

He gets dispossessed f*** all, but okay.

Something stinks re Anguissa - stats are good but no ones bought.

Is it attitude? He was the Fulham player that refused to play Championship right and went out on loan?

3 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

He won't be he's the 7th player I listed for 4 available slots so not like I'm saying he's playing a full season. 

Do you think everyone should be speculating about Kamada even though there's zero links between us and the player?

I don’t disagree on the practicalities with the numbers, but the way I see it is more Kamada, Ings, Watkins, Bundia, Bailey and Traore would be the core. 4 starting, 2 off the bench and JPB playing a bit part role. Ings will need to be rested semi frequently - as he was at Southampton, the rest are rotated based on form.

Zero links doesn’t mean anything after Ings IMO - additionally Kamada has all the attitude qualities we would rate - defensive contribution for an attacking player, disciplined, and fills the void of a component of Jack’s game.

In saying all that though, it’s probably why the Ings signing has me a bit confused, to play both him and Watkins youre essentially playing one out of position.

3 hours ago, MaVilla said:

i do wonder how much Kamada would cost???

I cant imagine it would be much more than 35m??

25M Euros is the quote price.

I don’t understand the hype about Cantwell at all. Decent striker of the football, but his technique and passing at times seems wild and gangly.

what’s the sales pitch?