KangarooVillan

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Our season was mixed last year and of course you can pick out games where a DM was not needed, but that also depends on how the opposition plays.....we still dropped too many points against the lower teams, who want to battle.
• Our defensive record overall was much better, but tell tale signs against teams like Leeds, West Ham, Burnley and Brighton were there for all to see or dismiss, depending on the analytical interest.
• If you refer to the missing link (DM) NEEDS to be big?, you are missing the point, being made, if you think a big one is likely to give us more physical presence?, you might be right, if you think such a player needs to be just a clogger?, you would be wrong......Nakamba was relieved of the ball from behind on numerous occasions, he is sadly not the level we require and is sadly not able to start attacks, which is what we require.
• If you think half the fan base have gleaned that we was overrun in midfield and you think that had no affect of us, thats your call.....Losing your midfield has a knock on effect to other area's, its like a row of dominoes, one or two go, it all goes.
• The midfielders we have at the club, may be ok, but they are all too samey, we need contrast.....we need one or two, who have a natural tendency to defend first and attack second.....we are deploying players there with a natural tendency to attack and asking them to defend.
• Formations can be anything, its where a team starts, not necessarily where it plays, the dynamics of the game, dictate that.....getting each individual player to get a 7-8/10 would be a much better benchmark, to appraise.

In my opinion we haven't got the personnel to play with 2 in midfield, they are simply not dominant enough, so we play 3 and possibly lose a forward, which now sounds contradictory as we have Danny Ings.

• Our full backs were mullered on Saturday and they are part of the defence, so that must be looked at, if the game was not just a bad day at the office.

Looking forward to Newcastle and addressing the issues.

 

A season is always mixed - Liverpool dropped a tonne of points against teams like Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle and Fulham. Sometimes it happens - the PL is stiff competition these days. It’s a stretch to state this as evidence for an underlying issue.

In terms of big, you’ve taken my words too literally... I said a big defensive presence - that’s what you’re after right? A defensive minded player? I never said they have to be literally big.

The bit I’ve bolded though is the bit that’s incredibly frustrating. Nakamba is limited and might not be everything people want, but the idea he gets dispossessed too often is a myth.

His dispossession stats are better than Bissouma and Doucoure who people are keen on to fill that role. I’m all for people putting forward players that will improve us based on a solid rationale, but often people just want a shiny new player based on some hollow qualitative analysis and want to fix an issue with another player who’s no better at that particular component of the game.

Hence, I have no doubts that if we dropped £50 mil on Bisouma or £15 mil on Doucoure, the same people would be complaining they get dispossessed too often in 6 months time.

Again, I’ll back Smith and co in with what’s best, worth mentioning again they literally have not let us down yet.

14 hours ago, TRO said:

Its a question of ,can we sort out the issue, without spending money......i'm not sure we can.

the other thing is, i think you exaggerate how much money is required to bring in a dedicated no 6.....the first thing, is to recognise we need one....many fans do, I'm not sure Dean does.

in my humble opinion.....one good quality centre mid, with an ability to help control midfield, will transform us and get other players looking better.....this imbalance is having a knock on affect imo......A much better version of Nakamba is needed.

I think we’re talking about 2 different things here. My response was to a poster saying that we need to spend all the Grealish money ASAP - so I was talking about marquee signings.

In regards to my thoughts on a new DM, I’ll back Smith and co’s judgement on that one. 

The things that I can’t really get around in my head as to how a DM would help are:

- That midfield area has sparkled before and it was mostly the same personnel 

- Our defensive record was very good last year so we must be doing something okay

- If people think a big defensive presence is what’s lacking, although Nakamba doesn’t have the passing range we’re after, he is very good defensively and it still didn’t help on the weekend

- The goals scored on the weekend had very little to do with our defence in the middle of the park - the damage was mostly done in wide areas

I agree with you about a need to control things in the middle of the park, although I can’t help but I think we may already have that if we play a 433 and can get a combination of Sanson, McGinn, Luiz and Nakamba on the park. 

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you make some thoughful points...but what Leicester have is balance, their approach to centre midfield is superior imo....we have no Ndidi or Kante before him, we are showing no signs of signing such a player....and they was not really expensive.

In my view, with Carney, Jacob,and his brother coming up on the rails, why did we sign Sanson...why did we not sign a No6?

We have signed Buendia and we have McGinn and Luiz all suited to futher forward....Nakamba must wonder hiw he was ever signed.

We have been signing too many midfielders too similar, giving us no balance.

Having players who are too similar in a given position or part of the pitch is a different issue to whether or not we need to go spend all the Jack money now.

I agree there’s a sameness through the middle of the park, arguably the only formation that seems to facilitate the players we have is a 433, but then that raises a whole host of questions in terms of where does Buendia, Ings and Watkins fit in - someone has to drop out.

My concern is that some on here think money will fix the issue and we need 3-4 big new signings to be competitive - I can guarantee if we do that the squad will be all at sea until the second half the season. Player cohesion and culture in the dressing room is real and vital to success.

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

Totally disagree.

What is an established culture in practical terms ? 

A marque signing imo would be very welcome. Assembling a squad of quality players is the very basic requirement - without it you haven't got a prayer.

Our fortunes picked up rapidly when NSWE invested hundreds millions in players. If they stop doing that we will decline again. It's a simple as that.

 

I literally said it - in practical terms, an established culture is the difference between Arsenal and Leicester. Look at the way Ferguson used to run his ManU teams.

Investment is a given, but the investment in marquee player after marquee player isn’t the answer. All it does is give short-sighted fans a little hot of dopamine to get them through to next week, just so they can slag off said player by the halfway point of the season.

10 hours ago, HalfTimePost said:

Koopmeiners didn't play for AZ Alkmaar yesterday. They're due to play Celtic on Wednesday and speculation building again after being left out yesterday that he's about to secure a move.

He was close to joining Atalanta earlier on in the summer but it fell through or neevr came to fruition. Think the hype died down around him as many casually assumed he'd completed his move. Would still be a good signing I think. Although not really the out and out DM we probably need.

We aren't linked so probably not coming here but interesting to see where he ends up

He’s not really a DM but actually if I think about it he’s basically JWP regen but bigger and stronger.

3 hours ago, TRO said:

They are not as good as we think they are.....but we are stuck with them for now.....don't get close enough to opponents and make their presence felt...don't win enough duels.

The flippancy

37 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

How many years do you think they would be happy to wait?

At least 2, maybe 3 if there’s a steady improvement. 

7 minutes ago, jim said:

Everything the owners Smith and the players have said.

Goals and aspirations are different to expectations.

7 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Which bit?

Owners looking for Europe - that pretty obvious based on comments by Purslow, Smith and players.

Iwners not being happy with Dean Smith if we regress - again pretty obvious.

Improving by 7 points - seems like a doable  target.      
 

No chance the owners, Purslow or Smith are thinking they’d be happy with same points or position as last year.

I haven’t seen anything to suggest the owners expect Europe this season.

I think the owners want Europe as soon as possible, but nothing to indicate that if we finish 9th or 10th Smith is in trouble.

Especially considering the changes and preparation this off-season.

20 minutes ago, ender4 said:

I think if we look like finishing 10-12th then Dean Smith will get sacked.

Im pretty certain that the owners are looking for European qualification this season, so 7th as a minimum.

That means improving by 7 (?) points from last season.

Based on??

9 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

Doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense though considering Buendia played on the right or in the middle this preseason. And has usually been on the right for every other game in his career. I believe he’s only played on the left side in approximately 10% of his games throughout his career. Between Bailey and Buendia, it will most likely be Bailey move to the left.

Was Buendia playing under Deano for the bulk of his career??

Nope.

Smith likes the inverted wingers - we had Traore on the right and Jack on the left.

Norwich played a different system - Bailey will be on the right, and unless he’s central Buendia will spend most of his time on the left.

6 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

The only player that prefers playing on the left in all those players you mention is el Ghazi and he’s crap. 

We still could do with another left sided player/attacking midfielder. 

Buendia - right footer = LW in smiths system. Same as JPB.

IDK why this is so difficult for people to understand. 

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

 

 

Really hope this does not get done.

6 hours ago, villaglint said:

Everyone talks about replacing Grealish but wont anybody spare a thought for poor Ross Barkley. I realise he didnt do much but I'd say he still needs replacing in the team/squad for next year. As it is we look like starting with either Carney or J Ramsey in that position on Saturday. That should tell everyone that we need more strength in that area for the season ahead. 

I think you’ve misunderstood the concept of replace... 

1 hour ago, allani said:

More talented players who are more used to playing international matches when they get called up every month or so to play with people they've not played with for 5 or 6 weeks.  So they will be more used to making friendships / partnerships at short notice.  Also in 19/20 we were so bereft of talent that we were relying on every signing pretty much going into the starting line up.  This season we are starting at a very different point.  So if McGinn (for example) needs to play the first 5 or 6 matches and then get subbed to bring on a new CM until they get up to speed - that isn't the worst position in the world to be in.  I'd rather that scenario than keep hold of Connor (for example) because we don't want to disrupt things (although that slightly ignores the fact that Connor wasn't here last season anyway).

That’s pretty hollow IMO - the standard in the Prem vs international is chalk and cheese - you can see players aren’t used to playing together regardless of talent.

The only exception are maybe teams like Belgium where the squad has been around for a long long time with largely the same core group. 

Additionally, it doesn’t touch on culture - what is Villa’s DNA if half the match day squad has only been there for 3 months?? The culture changes, becomes transient and undoes a lot of the work from the past 2 years. I don’t think any of us want that.

33 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

100%, I was more jabbing at media influencers helping maintain the hierarchy to the detriment of this beautiful game.

I've no idea what I was thinking at the time pushing this in this thread.

We have to use the Leics template until we crash through our higher potential ceiling.

 

Lol, my bad.

- - - - - - - - - the joke

me

what the hell happened to gifs??

14 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

It's getting ludicrous. Are people going to cry every window if we don't replace half the team because recently bought players not good enough for their liking?

I

13 hours ago, Phil Silvers said:

Sad thing is if we finished top 6 next 6 seasons in a row we wouldn't be one of the big 6. The big6 is sky's product, it's the 6 biggest companies, that's the group we need to be in. If we can and start winning g trophies, we still aren't. Leicester are doing just that and are not in the sky club yet.

I don’t think we want that do we?

I’d rather have the success and do it through sustainable player development as opposed to paying £60 million for a player to sit on the bench within 2 seasons.

16 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I agree with you. In absolute numbers, Sarr has slightly more combined progressive carries and passes. If he's not in there, its likely a mistake. Unless he's for some reason giving more weight to progressive passes over progressive carries.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how he's made the claim that Doucoure is in the >75th percentile for progressive passes + progressive carries per 90 minutes. There is no combined statistic for both that I know of on fbref. The only thing I can think of is that he just took Doucoure's percentile for both categories and averaged them out, but when I did that I still get less than 75. 

I’m glad it’s not just me...

Your second point is a good one as well - I sense some seriously dodgy stats are going on behind the scenes.

Could someone who has Twitter call this guy out??

16 hours ago, Greenfly said:

I suppose you could argue that carries don't necessarily mean the ball was being carried forward.

The ‘prog’ column is the one you want to look at - only looks at carries forward greater than x distance (I think it’s 5 yards from memory)

1 minute ago, TRO said:

lets just hope our analytics guys, have the right information.

Lol I would hope they’re doing a bit more than Venn diagrams too tbh

16 minutes ago, ejs1111 said:

didn't you see the Venn?!?

THE VENN DOESN'T LIE

I actually think this venn is lying through its teeth.

Can someone pls explain how Sarr is not in the >75th percentile for progression but Cheick is considering the below?

Venn: https://mobile.twitter.com/GoalAnalysis/status/1424786702045007880/photo/2

Would prefer Pape Sarr tbh.

We do have a habit of linking a similar player when we’re trying to shake another from the tree...