striker

For once TRO I think we are in agreement. Sacking Bruce would cut the head off the Turkey (trying to be seasonal) but the legs would work due to the nerve ends still being in place (Round and Wyness).

Speaking on purely a personal level, no. If he couldn't get the current squad of players promoted then I couldn't see him being successful when the vultures have swooped on Villa's better players before the start of next season.

For me it really depends on what Xia's expectations are? Promotion obviously, but if Villa are not looking like automatic promotee's and by the end of January are out of the top six would he see that as failure and hit the panic button? Or, if Villa are still in touch with the playoff places would that be good enough for Xia until the end of the season? I would hazard a guess that due to the backing Bruce received on wages to bring Terry, Whelan and Snodgrass in, the expectation was automatic promotion so it will be interesting to see how Xia reacts to Bruce if the current trend in results continue over the Christmas period?

No not with his injury record.

Not going to happen until promotion is mathematically impossible.

TRO I'd like to see Bruce giving Hayes or O'Hare a chance instead of Onomah for a start. Imo both Villa youngsters have shown more in cameos than Onomah all season. Probably Hayes due to Grealish being fit again to create more of a balance. Bruce could have also given McKirdy a chance against Derby with neither Gabby nor Hogan 100% fit. Certainly if either Hayes or McKirdy had flopped most fans wouldn't have criticised Bruce for playing them and maybe would get behind the manager more for trying to bring the youngsters through. As it is at the moment it's all a little too safe with results taking a bit of a dip. Wasn't it Bruce who said the Championship doesn't really start until the winter hits and Villa have the squad to cope. Well not a very auspicious start to the Winter League is it?

Change one of those O's to a c and I'd totally agree with you.

Very good post. If promotion isn't achieved this season then I think Bruce will probably step aside before being pushed. Will look better in front of his media buddies and he will hint at a lack of investment at crucial times as the cause for failure to reach the Premiership. Nonsense of course but that's the way it will probably play out. However while Villa are still in and around the playoff positions I wish Bruce would use the younger players coming through more. I thought Hayes looked very good when played as did O'Hare and before injury Lyden should have been given more game time instead of signing Whelan. Yes Bruce has given Davis and Green their chance but that was forced upon him. It's like Bruce is doing everything by the book. In one of his interviews he implied that he didn't want to play too many of the young guns together. Generally that's sound management right out of the text book written years ago but if you have a team full of older legs which is showing signs of fatigue then using youthful exuberance who have the ability to hold their own for a couple of games isn't a bad idea and would the results over the last few games been any worse? Bruce's management style is stuck in a time warp of yesteryear prefering to play older experienced pros coming to the end of their careers because its the safe rather than the right option and Villa are suffering because of it.

Ulloa would be ideal but how long would it take to get his match fitness back when Villa are facing the business end of the season? That's my only worry but he's a very good player.

Much rather neither of them are played. Both are awful players.

Bruce won't though. He will keep playing Whelan and Onomah. Villa have better midfielders coming through the U21s.

He wasn't good enough prior to Villa buying him. Awful, limited player and on a par with Jedinak. Stated as such when it was rumoured that Villa were interested in purchasing Whelan.

That team doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. Pretty awful in fact when you consider what other players are available. I'd set up in a totally different way with Hogan up top and Grealish in the 10 role to supply him but I can't see Bruce doing that especially away from home so it's a narrow defeat for me.

Lets try and stay on point for a moment. Previously you stated that if Bruce brought in a ball winner it would allow the likes of Hourihane to push further forward and we would see more attacking football from the team. I had my doubts on that but it was a reasonable assumption on your part so I waited and waited and waited. Still the same conservative football handing the initiative to the opposition. Even taking into consideration losing Kodjia and yes having to play an inexperienced kid who by the way in the main has been a revelation does not account for playing the same wretched football that Villa have played since the arrival of Bruce nor does losing Terry because Villa were still playing the same turgid stuff with him in the team. Other key players?? Well the only one I can think of is Jedinak who isn't by any stretch an attacking midfielder so what difference would he have made with Whelan already doing his job in the team? I think that is being fairly reasonable TRO. Maybe it's you who is being unreasonable not accepting the possibility that the main reason why Villa are playing hard on the eye football is down to the way they are being coached and instructed how to play?

But you said this previously. Last time it was a ball winner needed to allow Bruce to play more attacking football. Villa signed Whelan and.......??

If Villa don't achieve promotion this season with the resources available then Bruce should be sacked. You cannot keep rewarding failure with patience despite who is and who isn't available.

TRO you make some very good points in your posts even though I don't agree with many of them but the above is just ridiculous.

This is an excellent point and one which i'm concerned about too if promoted. I actually thought before the season started that Villa wouldn't have to conduct a complete rebuild if they found themselves in the Premiership next season and posted as such. Decent spine to the team to survive in the lower echelons of the Premiership with several additions, then push on the following season. I thought Villa would walk the Championship this season or at the very least be able secure that automatic second spot. They may still secure that second place but I have been generally shocked at the standard of football Villa are churning out at the moment which leaves me doubting that second place is attainable. Presently I feel Villa will probably nab the last play off spot and then its in the lap of the Gods whether they achieve promotion. If they do go up and play the same way, even with further additions to the squad with the same manager I'm not sure it's going to be good enough to stop Villa coming straight back down again?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in the Hogan thread. Unless Bruce chooses to change tactics (not likely but I live in hope) then any striker coming in has to be a target man who can hold the ball up to give Davis a rest. There's just no point in bringing in another striker of the same ilk as Hogan because it would be Groundhog Day.

Yeah that's fine and dandy but would they have played him in the way Bruce has? Personally I don't think so. The lack of ball control wasn't evident at Brentford either. Bruce has totally shattered Hogan's confidence by firstly asking him to play in a completely different way than at Brentford and then relegating him to a part time bench player coming on to chase hoof into channels or to play with his back to goal. That simply isn't Hogan's game. He's a nippy forward who likes to spin on the shoulder of the defender to through balls.

I'm a firm believer in buying players to suit whatever system you choose to play. I would assume most managers are. I'm not in favour of trying to fit the system to the player. It generally causes too many problems with loss of form and indeed loss of confidence which I believe is the reason why Hogan has gone from a prolific striker at Brentford to one which is struggling at the Villa. Due to being such a stark change in the player's fortunes in a short space of time, you cannot ignore the difference in what he is being asked to do under Bruce. I mean it isn't as if he had a poor touch at Brentford. As you know Brentford are a pass and move team so Hogan's touch needed to be decent to be their focal point of attack and i'm sure if Brentford took him back Hogan would flourish again in their system once he got his confidence back. I just feel in this instance Bruce has got it wrong with the signing unless he changes tactics and plays someone like Grealish, Lansbury or O'Hare in behind Hogan to give him the type of service he is used to rather than chasing long balls in the channels or trying to be the vocal point of hoof. I suppose TRO we can have another long debate about this, which, in the end, isn't going to have one poster accepting and agreeing with the other viewpoint so again i'm going to leave it at that.

Probably why Villa are now being linked with him.

Didn't Klopp inherit Benteke? Wasn't it a widely held viewpoint at the time that Klopp had Liverpool playing in such a way that it didn't suit Benteke and that's why he was eventually sold? When Benteke was at Villa the team was set up to have him as the focal point to the extent of Westwood hitting floaty corners to him because that's the way Benteke wanted them delivered hence why he was so prolific. I mean that kinda proves my point about Hogan does it not? Concerning Hodgson I can't comment because I haven't seen Palace play under him other than the widely held view that Hodgson sets his teams up to be ULTRA defensive especially in their present position.

As stated before if Bruce had Villa playing the same way as Brentford and Hogan was no better I would wholeheartedly agree with you but you can't condemn a player for his performances if he is being starved of service while being asked to play in a way which is totally alien to him. At least I can't and i'm going to leave it there as we aren't going to agree.

No I'm not assuming he was bought to be a target man. Hogan isn't and never will be a target man but Bruce has tried to play him that way and that's my point, well part of it. Hoofing it to Hogan!! Its why Hogan hasn't been a success at the Villa because he's been asked to play in way by Bruce which is totally alien to him hence my previous comparison between trying to get John Carew and Peter Withe to play like Shaw and Yorke. That's why Hogan has been struggling. Bruce not playing him in a way that he is accustomed to. The other part of my point is that if you are going to pay 12m plus for a forward in the Championship then you should damn well make sure you are going to set the team up in such a way to get the best out him playing ball to feet and through balls to let Hogan run off the shoulder of the defender. Under Bruce Villa don't play that way and probably never will so it was a very poor decision from Bruce in the first place to sign Hogan and imo Bruce deserves criticism for that. You buy the player to fit the system and not try and make the system fit the player hence why Bruce is now looking at getting another target man in to give Davis a rest. 12m too late though!! Its nothing to do with hindsight either. It's everything to do with forward planning and concerning Hogan Bruce has got it badly wrong unless he now starts to play to Hogan's strengths with Grealish, O'Hare or Landsbury played in the number 10 role and instructed to play those through balls to Hogan. If that happens on a more regular basis then I think you will see a much more effective player.