Grasshopper

2 hours ago, turvontour said:

Why, what happens if we don't win?

The „ratings & reaction thread“ „Steve Bruce thread“ and the „Promotion thread“ will implode

Followed closely by the DrT Wyness & Round threads

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

2nd isn't going to happen. Playoff bet is on!!

Note

If we get promoted either automatically or via the playoffs I will be ecstatic. AND I‘ll be cheering the team on all the way

I‘ll gladly pay up on both of my bets

I‘ll also reserve the right to the opinion that we would get promotion despite Bruce not because of him. Our squad of players are much better as footballers than Bruce is a manager

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

2nd isn't going to happen. Playoff bet is on!!

@BOF

noted?

or another mod

(I believe it was BOF who verified my bet with VoZ

17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Sure why not? £10 Donation to VT? It can be put toward more storage to hold the Steve Bruce thread

yes

for clarification (  @BOF ) feel free to verify.

Bruce doesnt not get us promoted via the playoffs this season 2017/18

Definition - Finishing 1st, 2nd, 7th or lower is NOT a formular for „promotion via the playoffs“ which is what you stated.

If you want to bet for 2nd also I‘ll donate £20 against your £10 

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Argh! Grrrrr! All these people saying Steve Bruce is the best manager we have ever had. God I hate them. Bloody idiots!

Am I doing it right?

Yes. Finally

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

you do realise that

7 PTS OFF the 2ppg total 

means

7 wins on the trot to catch up

I must correct myself here

if Cardiff lose their next game they’ll have 47pts from 23

IF

they achieve that 94 pts with a better GD or above gets you 2nd

IF 

we beat SheffU and NOBODY overtakes them they’ll finish with 74pts

(we would then be on 40pts/23games - 80pts doubled)

We can also lose/Draw v SheffU ending the halfway stage 9th having to overtake 3 teams for a playoff place.

Now depending on the interpretation (or straw.....) of what M118 kindly posted.

A target for 2nd would be (94pts)

94-37= 57

25games = 57pts thats 2ppg PLUS 7 EXTRA points over a 2ppg average for those specific 7 games

7 games = 21pts

57-21=36

36 pts needed in the 18 games left

thats an average of 9wins if we go UNBEATEN

So we have to win 16 of our remaining 25 games or the equivelant higher amount should we lose a game

Now Maths really isnt my strongest point

However - Realism is

Bruce Out

A new manager has

1 - a shot at 2nd (albeit a long one)

2 - as good a shot as Bruce has for the playoffs

3 - at worst, more time to prepare us for next season

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

There's a lot of straw manning in this thread lately.

Then stop doing it

47 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Top 2 is very unlikely to happen. We'll go up via the playoffs. 

prepared to bet?

50 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Just on this since the draw against Boro we have a 9-2-2 record. Even if we somehow miraculously got the same kind of results against better teams we would have 66 points after 35 games and still not be at the 2 ppg target. Our next 13 games?

Sheff U, Brentford, Boro, Bristol, Forest, Barnsley, Sheff United, Burton, Birmingham, Fulham, PNE, Sheff Wed, QPR

The issue is the games in Feb are probably our easiest run of games. We then have to play better teams till the end of the season and still somehow make up 4 points to get to the 2ppg target. Basically, after all that nonsense, we need to go on a massive run of games winning every game and also beating the top sides. 

one for the “file to” realism log

59 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't know, but @Grasshopper ought to be able to identify him given the rather precise description we have of his computer.  

Nice counter

59 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

If you're a poster who doesn't favour sacking the manager immediately, and you have floor-length curtains, you may want to check carefully behind them this evening. 

also very good

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Would anybody though change him right now (Dec 18) - and gamble on luring a suitable replacement who can hot the ground running ?

Not to defend him - he hasn't done as well as I hoped or thought he would.

But I just can't see who we would bring in right now who would improve the current results to get us promoted. Come May the club would have greater choice in the field of candidates as replacements - changing him now would IMO result in a 'who is available' approach - and could quite feasibly result in us starting next season with a manager that wasn't anyones first choice. 

I‘m leaning towards „Anyone on VT“ could do a better job.

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Who exactly is denying this?

read the thread if you really want to know

9 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

For those questioning the 2 ppg and automatic promotion target set by Xia...

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/holte-end-hero-speaks-tony-13973634

Firmly stated by the man ultimately responsible.

Constantly denied by those sitting in front of a Monitor desperately in need of a dose of windoleen, a keyboard in need of replacing and a user who is lacking in realism

4 minutes ago, Farlz said:

Steve Agnew set to join the coaching staff apparently. Was with Bruce at Hull. 

I wonder how long it will take till the latest excuse comes out

SB „I‘m gradually getting my prefered coaching staff all in, Phelan, is someone I‘d also like on board, these changes take time, I‘m sure we‘ll be there or thereabouts once settled in“

I‘d like to see

                      SJ

    Bree Chester RDL Taylor

Snod Lansbury Onomah Hourihane Adomah

                     Hogan

1st sub would be Grealish for HL/JO

meaning

                      SJ

    Bree Chester RDL Taylor

Snod Lansbury/Onomah Hourihane Adomah

                    Grealish

                     Hogan

2nd sub would be Davis (if fit) (or even Gaby for HL/JO

meaning

                      SJ

      Bree Chester RDL Taylor

Snod Grealish Hourihane Adomah

            Hogan Davis/Gaby

We need to attack till we score and do it again and again till the 90mins is up

5 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

The thing is they have still been playing far better than we have. I thought they were brilliant against Bristol city and would of gone on to win if it wasn't for the sending off. I don't buy this we should beat them. They have been unlucky that they have been on the run they have. If they play like they have been most of the season, then we will not win. 2.1 to sheff utd.

like

I wrote in the pre-match thread that I was with Bruce for the line-up 

IF

the tactics were to attack, pass, move, carry and try to get us moving forward at their CB‘s. We would either get through on goal or have a player brought down trying to do so. I also thought Hourihane could get a goal or 2 from freekicks around their box.

A quite simple theory, but Bruce didnt appear to even try it.

I havent seen any stats, did we even get a freekick within shooting distance?

48 minutes ago, peterms said:

Our points total is closer to Brentford in 13th than Cardiff in 2nd position.  It feels like quite a distance off an automatic spot to me.

It's also a more challenging task than at the start of the season - catching up 10 points on Cardiff, and 6 on Bristol City and 4 on Derby, while also not being caught by the 4 teams who are within 2 points of us.  And doing that with only half the games left in which to do it.  The quality of the play in many of the games doesn't suggest that we are going to be able to make that level of improvement.  I suppose other teams might collapse like Sheff Utd have, with 4 defeats in the last 5 games, but it's pretty unlikely.

The need for an automatic spot, as we've discussed ad nauseam, is because our pretty poor record against the teams likely to be in the playoffs doesn't inspire confidence of getting promoted via that route.

It almost hurts that you have to actually explain this to someone

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

10 points is 'way off'? Don't be silly.  

At present, we're one game away from the half way point. Worst case scenario and we don't score, we'll be 6 short of the half way target. Not way off.

Currently 7 points off the 2 ppg target, again, not way off. 

It's hyperbole Jonah, plain and simple. We're not doing quite as well as expected but we're not propping up the table either. 

you do realise that

7 PTS OFF the 2ppg total 

means

7 wins on the trot to catch up

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

While I'm not happy with recent form and being 10 points behind Cardiff. From reading this site you'd think the season had already ended and we had missed promotion. 

I think you‘re being a bit HARSH there 

2 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I have to disagree, with the amount of players leaving come june, what we will be left with and less parachute payments, combine with FFP we will once again become unstable and our decline will once again begin.

We need promotion this season no matter what it takes.

yes

3 hours ago, lexicon said:

Saturday's line up was always going to be less than desirable given the injuries. I didn't agree with Onomah up front but we had a half-fit striker in Hogan and an absolute mess of a person in Gabby there. 

As for the post-match - he said that we made too many individual mistakes, which was true and also  'We didn't deserve to get beaten 2-0 but we also didn't do enough to win' - which is also true. What upset you so much about it?

I think automatic promotion is possible. It's certainly not a given but it can be done. I don't think we'll finish outside of the playoffs, at any rate. 

What you dont appear to comprehend is the simple facts that.

1 his appointment last season was the boards attempt to appoint someone who WOULD get us promoted

* note - even if is was an impossible task (playoffs) there was also a target of 10th set - which he failed (we finished 13th)

2 it was stated by Owner & CEO that the target this season was/is promotion

We are NOT in a promotion position

we ARE in a playoff position

* note we would have to beat 2 of the teams who finish 3rd-6th - we havent beaten a top 8 side yet this season

The point about injuries is 2 fold

1 injuries happen - some teams have more others less

2 reccuring injuries can be avoided by rotating the squad and not rushing back players from injuries or playing injured players - Bruce has done this

*note - a positive side-effect of rotation is that

1 players dont get complacent

2 rested players benefit the team over a whole season

3 players coming in and out helps the team become a unit regardless of who plays - if the manager sets out a style/system

the list goes on

Bruce seemingly ignores these factors, and appears prepared to let the consequences happen thus creating a ready made excuse for his shortcomings

3 hours ago, Dave J said:

Or you could take the view that now could be a productive time to make change ahead of the window?

ran out of likes

spot on

6 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I believe a large number of the squad are now fed up with the way they are being coached and how the team are being set up. I doubt they dislike Steve Bruce as he comes across as a blokey bloke, who’s a nice guy. However I don’t think they believe in his tactical style and are frustrated by how we set up. 

This is a squad that could play better than they have been. A decent manager would recognise this and let them off the leash, which would give them all a huge boost. New manager bounce bringing out some good individual performances, would let the confidence flow and we could finish the season very strongly. 

I dont deny injuries haven’t helped, but they haven’t really altered how we play. We haven’t played consistently decent attacking football over the last 15 months. And let’s not kid ourselves that other clubs don’t have injury problems. When we played Sheffield Wednesday recently they had something like 7 first team defenders missing. And I noticed a comment from a Cardiff player about looking forward to 5 first team players coming back from injury soon.

I would like to think that the board aren’t blind to our problems and have a plan B. Any decent board should always have a plan B (C, D, E...) regardless of how they are doing and who their manager is. If and when we replace the manager may well give us an insight as to how well we are run as a club under our new ambitious owner.

100% ^

6 hours ago, lexicon said:

It's funny really - last 10 games we've had 5 wins, 3 draws and 2 losses. Knives are now out for Bruce after a run of 3 games and a return of 2 points.

The team is suffering badly from injuries, which is not Bruce's fault and it does explain the form. 

It's never been pretty and it'll never be pretty but it has been pretty effective so far this season and can continue to be. 

I think criticism of him is warranted and fair but wanting him sacked is foolish at this juncture, IMO. 

With all due respect

You are completely and utterly missing the point