mrjc

It's tested on a rolling three-year basis (in theory on an ongoing basis, so no real end to it). So the test for this season will be based on the actual profit for 2015/16 (Prem), 2016/17 (Champ) and an estimate that we submit in the spring for 2017/18 (Champ). In reality, we can't completely get shot of it....so the best way to 'solve' it is to (a) increase revenues or (b) reduce our costs. Sounds simple, but fundamentally that's what we need to do. (A) is only materially done by getting promotion...if we need to do (b) without promotion, we could be in a for a really painful time. Also though - Man City have taken a penalty of sorts, in that I think they had a fine and a reduced-size CL squad a couple of years ago. So they made the call to breach it, and take the penalties (risky for us I think).

Interesting point. I guess it would be reset, giving us more money and a greater allowance for FFP losses....but then that would be largely, if not all, offset by the investment we would need to make in trying to stay up, and wages which could stay with us even beyond another relegation. If that's invested well, it could be positive, if not..... On balance though, a yoyo would still definitely be favourable to staying down that whole time!

Agree it's fine if we are within the rules (I hope it's been managed that way, and suspect it has on the basis of promotion). Where it becomes less good is if we breach - which basically would mean we haven't stuck to our smaller budget and we face penalties. If we don't get promoted, we must be incredibly tight against the rules...maybe next year, maybe in the next couple of years...I just don't see how we avoid a breach unless we drastically slash our wage bill. Problem is, if we don't get promoted, how saleable are our best assets going to be...especially if buyers know we are in a position of needing to sell? So if we stay down and breach we either (a) have to asset strip the squad or (b) take a big fine / points penalty. I see what you mean and like the positivity, and actually I don't see FFP as completely a bad thing. I think it does lead to, on average, more responsible running of clubs. But I think we have gambled pretty heavily on the assumption we go up this season, and I can't see it going well if we don't.

Very fair point

I agree with a lot of this, and for a long time I too genuinely felt it would get better (looking back at last season now though, our good run seems based on much weaker foundations than I thought at the time). My view differs on the course of action from here. I don't see it that Bruce does 'need' any more time. I wouldn't have expected him to have solved all of our problems, but I would have expected a lot more progress, and genuine signs of it, than we have. That, along with our financial situation, means I just don't think we can afford, probably literally, just to accept that we see this season through. I think we need to go for what we think is our best chance of promotion. I think that is change - giving somebody else (not sure who), an okay(ish) amount of time with a decent squad that's on the fringes at the moment. It's not risk free, and absolutely no guarantee of success, and I see your point that it's not completely fair on the new guy. But in my opinion we stand a better chance that way than by sticking. I think if we stick we stay down, and things could get really grim.

A lot of people aren't still 'bashing' Bruce (I don't think)...it's more that it will take longer than our recent form, very good as it is, to convince that we have turned a corner and will be challenging for promotion. That's certainly where I am, and I think it's a fair view to take based on reason over a decent period of time (and I don't consider it overly negative). You can look at this in so many ways and build a favourable / negative / neutral view on it - most seem reasonable enough though.

Do you think it’s him doing it? I hope it is, and certainly some of it seems it must be (pics with kids, family etc). Just a little sceptical given some of the episodes we’ve seen with other players, and he seems to be on there so so much. I guess though, even if it is someone managing it, the positives you mention will hold true. And generally, absolutely agree with your sentiments

Rightly criticised for an unusually shaky start to the season (Cardiff, from highlights, looked particularly bad). But he's looked very solid again the last few games - I think the whole defence must be taking some confidence from the way we are playing further up the pitch. There must be less fear from the constant threat of giving the ball away that we had earlier in the season. In any case, he's great for our squad and I'd be happy with him in our team whichever division we're in next season

Agreed - his quality will be difficult / expensive to replace next year. I guess I'm assuming he won't be around as (a) he doesn't want to play Chelsea in the PL and (b) not sure we'll be able to afford him if we don't go up. Let's hope he leads us to promotion so we at least have the funds to replace

Shocking decision, and it reminded me of the Brsitol City game (Feb I think?) when he was so desperate to score, and then went and missed a penalty. I thought he would do the same on Saturday, so hopefully the fact he didn't will get him going a bit goals-wise. Albert (and others) looked genuinely pleased for him when he did score though. I guess they feel like us - infuriating at times, but he's a brilliant player to have in our team, and would probably not be here if he could sort that part of his game out.

Bruce, and the team, have to get credit for the results at the moment, and (from what I've read) the performance last night. In itself, I'm not worried about us being off the pace, there is in theory plenty of time to close that gap with the right form. Also, encouragingly the players seem to have more confidence a bit of swagger about them - which I don't think we've seen for a long time. I know we've got a mix of views / frustrations, but continuing our current form is absolutely the best-case scenario from here. However, the last few games haven't (and, in fairness, can't) convince me yet that we are ready to sustain this form and actually be able to close that gap. Nor should they - if the negative voices were being too judgemental after three games (10 months), then why should a positive judgement be made so soon (especially given the opposition)? Based on what we've seen over Bruce's tenure, we have to take into account the fact that there have been ups and downs, sometimes for several consecutive matches - so I still expect the same to happen again this season. So it's great to see some wins, goals, performances etc, and long may it continue....and obviously I hope I'm wrong, but for now I still don't see us as getting promoted.

Agreed, I think much of the general criticism is fair, but I have no issue with his approach to Tuesday at all. I understand the momentum argument, but agree that the players in the 'league' team should have no disruption to their own momentum, plus there's nothing to say we would have won it with a stronger team anyway. Obviously it would have been nice to have gone through, but I absolutely support prioritising our priorities.

In itself, it wouldn't be enough for me. I'll happily admit if I'm wrong, but part of the problem (as I see it), is we are very capable of going on a run of winning games...but equally capable of going on a really bad run of games. I suspect if we stick with this regime, we will have both throughout the season and end up in upper-mid-table region. Which isn't good enough, even if we do win the next five games on the bounce. Admittedly, that makes it pretty difficult for me to be convinced in the short term, but that's the way I see it. Perhaps if we have three to four solid months of good results, backed up by progress in the nature of performances, recovery from bad moments and properly competing against the best sides in the division - I will be more convinced. But I don't see that happening. I'm also probably influenced by last season, when we had one strong run of results, which turned out to mean very little in the context of the wider progress we have to make, as it wasn't built on anything sustainable. I realise this comes across as pretty defeatist, and I hope I'm wrong - best scenario is that the corner has turned and we properly improve with Bruce. I just can't see it right now.

I don't like the tone of his comments before / after the game, that attitude's doing him no favours. From a football point of view, today was good and he couldn't have done much more. It (rightly) won't be enough to convince some people, but it was never going to be. I'm nowhere near convinced we will go up after today, and I certainly need to see more to consider this any kind of turning point. I also still think we are capable of going on a winning run...but also capable of going on a dire run. I expect us to do both if Bruce remains in charge. We will undoubtedly get some good results, I just don't (yet) see anything to suggest we have the plan and thinking to deliver a season's worth of success. Still, a good win is a good win, so let's enjoy it!

He must be gaining confidence and spirit from the fact we've now kept three clean sheets in a row, and had a dominant performance today. Yes, he's hugely experienced, but he's also made a big change this summer, and that would impact most people. He's come into some really poor performances and a lot of negativity, which he just won't be used to at all. So while we (rightly) expect him to be someone to help us overcome these things, it's also not unreasonable for him to have to adapt. I think he's looked decent throughout, but in the last couple of games has started to stand out - hopefully it continues. If we get more of the Terry mentality we are familiar with running through the team, that can only be a good thing.

It's tested over a rolling three seasons, so if we sack him now I think any compensation would be included. Much much tighter year is next season though, when parachute payments go right down (which would still include this season's compensation costs, if there are any). Agree though that it's hopefully not a decider - not sure I have faith that they'll have saved for the new guy though! I really think plan A was all about getting promoted this year...and I'm not sure there is a plan B or beyond

Very difficult to know. The cost of signing the two additional PL players we were apparently in for, would have presumably been as much / more than paying off Bruce and staff. That said - the financial landscape improves drastically if we are promoted - so if they think someone else is realistically likely to achieve that, and Bruce isn't, they should do it. I'm also not sure on the technicalities if you breach FFP in the year you get promoted. It's an EFL rule, not a PL rule, so don't know how it works. Given how much we spent on wages in the summer, and given we turned down initial money for Bacuna, and played hardball over the proportion of Mccormack's wages - I'd be surprised if his payoff would be the deciding factor in a decision.

Yeah that's fair. If I look back at most of the key decisions, they've seemed sound, or at least backed by some reason, at the time. Over a longer period they can be judged over whether or not they got the big decisions right, but for now I agree it's a little too soon to blame here - aside from the football, theirs is a huge job turning around an entire company.

In any 'normal' company it should absolutely be the CEO's job to make key appointments, not the Chairman's. Presumably Round reports to Wyness (again, he would in a normal company)? Maybe just where football is that bit unique

Absolutely. We should be the same with the squad - always have a potential list of the 'next' targets to be acquired, for the inevitable day we'll need them. Southampton do it very well - it's why they were able to replace Van dijk, even though they ended up keeping him. My sense (more from our transfer activity) is that we don't do that, sadly...

Maybe you're right, sadly. My worry will then become sustaining our place in the Championship, genuinely. Even if we don't breach FFP, we will have to sifnificantly cut back, thus worsening the squad (or relying on youth). Or if we do breach, we could get transfer bans and / or a points deduction. Acceptance may be the only way, but it may turn out even worse than described above.

Agreed, RdM didn't have anywhere near as much time as Bruce leading up to this state. Bruce has had two full windows, inherited a heavily invested squad (admittedly much of it badly invested) and in theory had his experience which made him a safe bet (I certainly thought that myself). So the comparisons with RdM don't really work for me. Also though, I think both deserve / deserved to lose their job, as much for the nature of the progress as the results. For both, I was willing to tolerate patchy results if you could see a plan, a bit of development, improvement etc. Neither achieved that. As for the hysteria - there's some, but in the main it's balanced views which happen to be negative. They're not without foundation though, and generally I wouldn't consider them hysterical. (Clearly no reason to make it personal though).

Good point, it's easy to get caught up with the perspective on here and think it's representative of the wider fanbase. As you say though, results (and as importantly for me, performances) simply can't go on like this. I felt the fans were turning at the weekend...so maybe not tonight, but it won't be long if this goes on.

The most worrying / delusional thing: it's only a matter of time before it turns for us. That implies we're doing everything right, just not quite getting the rub of the green. So so so far off reality!! We are sadly getting exactly what we deserve for our approach and performances at the moment

Totally agree. I've heard Redknapp say before - "good players win you matches" - an ignorance to tactics / opposition / gameplan etc. I think Bruce is the same. A couple of weeks ago (post Norwich I think) he said we signed Lansbury and Hourihane because they had the highest assists in the division. Sadly we had no plan for how to fit them into a system / link to our current players / tap into some of what maybe gave them that success. He's said a number of times that this is his biggest job - it just seems to be way too big. Plus he just looks way out of date. And that's why we're all now losing / have lost hope - it's simply not going to change under this manager.