Villarocker

Collins to give away pen in the last minute! They are shit and we're holding on against them FFS. Walker has been the shining light today. It's just a shame that we will have to send him back to Spuds at the end of the season

That did not look like a second bookable offence but to be fair it was just as bad as Zenden's second against Sunderland. More importantly he will be banned for the Blues game so that means two of our main attacking players out for that game now. Who else feels like this is a par for the course game for Villa and we will give away another goal? I hate saying it but you can just sense it.

It was funny how they cheered for him being subbed

I wasn't one of those who liked the comments from Petrov with regards to not caring if we lost today. A good cup run against some lesser opposition will breed confidence around the club and will help with the league form IMO. We look better when we are knocking the ball around and I am sure the players will get some confidence from that.

Err im sorry mate but the majority here are blaming Houllier Fair point. I think I should have said "everyone is accusing the players of having shitty attitudes", which they are.

If Houllier gets the players he wants in this window and keeps us up then fair play to him. He will then have the summer to get rid of the rest of the troublemakers and bring in more of his own players and the future would be a lot brighter for next season and beyond. I hope that happens, I really do. The fact of the matter is, no matter what's happened to get us to this siutation, who honestly thinks that Houllier will get us out of this mess and keep us up? I mean, even if he brings in Bridge to play left back, Makoun to play CM, maybe Mbokani to play Striker and another 1 or 2 to help out in other areas, who thinks that he will keep us in this league? Those players will need time to settle no doubt. Foreign players usually take time to adjust to the Premier League so there's no guarantees they will even be better than what we already have. If he brings new players in and puts them straight into the team in place of the likes of Warnock, Cuellar, Petrov, Gabby etc, won't that alienate those players even more? If the new guys fail to do well then we will need those other experienced players to come in and get us out of the shit. These are players that he may have already pissed off and replacing them may be the straw that breaks the donkey's back. There are clearly issues with regards to how the players have reacted to him since he came here. Everyone seems to be blaming the players for having shitty attitudes and maybe we have the right to, but, what if the shitty attitude came from Houllier? What if he is the one who has the worst attitude problem? It's ok saying get rid of all the troublemakers but what if there are 10 of them? are we really going to replace 10 players with better quality players of the ball-playing type that Houllier wants? They won't be cheap and who can safely say that those new players won't find Houllier's tactics and training methods difficult to take to either!

Perhaps they think too much of themselves and/or they had too much of an easy time under MON? I agree with a lot of the things you've said John and can see your points to argue a case for Houllier. However, do you not think it would have been better for him to see what was going on and then deal with it at a more timely point in the season, namely now and in the summer? My concern is that he has done too much damage too soon and that he won't be able to get enough players in/out to make the atmosphere that much better for him to get the players on side enough to fight their way out of this. I guess our season rests in the hands of the players and their relationships with the manager. If the stories are true and the damage can't be repaired, I really feel that we could go down. They don't have clauses in their contracts so why would they be too concerned? They go down and they still get their normal salaries whilst playing against the likes of Sheff Utd, Doncaster and Coventry. If we sell them it will have to be on the cheap and other clubs will pay them what they want because of the nature of the transfer fee. The pressure is all on the management and that's what worries me. I don't neccessarily like the manager but i will always support him as long as he is here. I just think that, for the season to be saved and us not get relegated, we would be safer parting company with him. I hope he gets the players on side and turns it around, I really do. Having said that, he has no history of fighting battles at the wrong end of the table so even getting the players on side doesn't guarantee he will have the nous to get the results needed. Them's balanced sentiments, villarocker, but it is of course what players do on the pitch that's really the main issue. For me, I thought the spirit showed through against Chelsea, and it made me wonder if Sunderland was a case of the players being too afraid to do anything wrong in front of their own supporters. Boy, we're going to be biting our nails for a little while yet!! Aha nail on the head John! I was sat next to my Dad at the Sunderland game and after about 25 minutes I forecasted how the game would sort of go. I said that we would continue to play well without scoring and go in at 0-0. I said that we would come out and Sunderland would weather the storm until they nick a goal from a set piece and then spend the rest of the game withstanding our poor attempts at breaking them down. Obviously it went a little differently to that as they were the better team when they came out after the break. Also, they looked the more likely to score when they took the lead. I reckon that is down to Heskey though. Had he stayed on the pitch I still believe we would have lost as we looked scared. The writing was on the wall when Cuellar got into countless positions where he had the chance to cross but bottled it and passed it back to Downing. Then Petrov ran into the box and decided to turn back instead of taking on the shot. You could just sense the fear in them and I really don't know how we are going to get over that as the fans are after blood at the moment and that is going to pass down to the players.

Perhaps they think too much of themselves and/or they had too much of an easy time under MON? I agree with a lot of the things you've said John and can see your points to argue a case for Houllier. However, do you not think it would have been better for him to see what was going on and then deal with it at a more timely point in the season, namely now and in the summer? My concern is that he has done too much damage too soon and that he won't be able to get enough players in/out to make the atmosphere that much better for him to get the players on side enough to fight their way out of this. I guess our season rests in the hands of the players and their relationships with the manager. If the stories are true and the damage can't be repaired, I really feel that we could go down. They don't have clauses in their contracts so why would they be too concerned? They go down and they still get their normal salaries whilst playing against the likes of Sheff Utd, Doncaster and Coventry. If we sell them it will have to be on the cheap and other clubs will pay them what they want because of the nature of the transfer fee. The pressure is all on the management and that's what worries me. I don't neccessarily like the manager but i will always support him as long as he is here. I just think that, for the season to be saved and us not get relegated, we would be safer parting company with him. I hope he gets the players on side and turns it around, I really do. Having said that, he has no history of fighting battles at the wrong end of the table so even getting the players on side doesn't guarantee he will have the nous to get the results needed.

I thought his original appointment was just about the best we could do at that time, although the health issue concerned me. I then got more concerned when I read that his preferred choices for assistant didn't want to join him. It is clear that he has had it tough. Nothing seems to have gone right for him and that makes me feel sorry for him and want to give him more time. The sympathy for him seemed to wain for me when he did what he did at Anfield. I also then look at all the reports of the bust ups with players and that makes me feel less sorry for him as well. I understand that a manager wants to do things his own way but why do people always feel the need to change things if they don't really need changing? If there were problems with players behind the scenes, why not wait until the correct time to deal with them? Like now and in the summer! We are in the bottom three and he has to take a huge amount of the blame for that. He is not totally to blame, we all know that, but he is hugely to blame IMO. The team selection for some of the games has been strange. I liked the line up against Chelsea and Sunderland but would have changed a couple of things around. I would have swapped Gabby with Downing at Chelsea. Simply because i recall Gabby's performance against Chelsea at Villa Park when we beat them last season. He moved out wide right and stopped Cole from getting forward and I thought it would have been better with him out on the right. Wednesday night i thought we would have been better with Gabby behind Heskey and Young back on the right with Downing on the left. Young is so much better out wide and Downing is a different player on the left. I would even like to see Downing playing behind a striker but not wide right. There is no doubt in my mind that Heskey was hugely to blame for the defeat. He should have scored at least once and was totally stupid for getting himself sent off. However, waiting so long to make a change was just ridiculous. Then, when he did make a change, he had Bannan and Young at centre back and all of our other defenders up front!! I guess he was hoping for a knock down to fall to one of them or for one of them to win a header etc but surely you want your quality players at the top end of the pitch, not at the back! Sorry but I found that absolutely baffling and cannot accept that as a sign of good management. I have been recently been suggesting that a new manager is the best way for our team to survive a relegation battle. I still think that would be the better option. However, if Houllier stays i will support him as I would any other manager. I just hope that Randy backs him because he clearly needs a new group of players as the ones he currently manages have issues with him. Whether or not the new players will like him is a different matter altogether as that is not guaranteed either! I just saw his press conference on tv and I must say that I admire his cockyness. He clearly thinks he is untouchable because of what he is hearing behind the scenes. I do find it mindboggling how he can say that he is "delighted" to belong to a 4 man club who are danger of losing their jobs. Then he goes on about togetherness. I would have thought that falling out with the players and upsetting people is not really doing much to aid togetherness to be honest! He really needs to be a bit more serious about the position he and Aston Villa are in because that cocky attitude is going to make him look completely stupid if he does fail to keep us up.

That reminds me of The afore-mentioned film again - Clough without Taylor!!

Another thing I wanted to say was this; someone posted the other day that our current situation reminds him of The Damned United. I watched that film today and can see the similarities. A successful group of players who respected their manager took offence at the new regime and refused to play for him in order to get him out. All sounds pretty familiar with what's been going on, apart from the fact that successful team had recently won things!

I read somewhere today, amongst the many quotes, that Houllier believes he has the backing of Lerner "for better or for worse". This tells me he is here for the whole of this season no matter how bad it gets. I wish I knew what was going through Randy's head right now. Is he holding onto the cash just in case we go down and he then doesn't have more expensive players on the books? Is he holding onto the cash in case we narrowly avoid relegation and will then look to bring in a new manager and give him the money for new players? Is he going to give money to give Houllier the season and then give the money to re-build in the summer? Is he going to give Houllier the money to spend now and hope that the new players help keep us up? or, even worse, does he just not have the money to spend? I think this transfer window will tell us a lot about what Randy is thinking. The General said that Randy would back Houllier just like he did the previous manager, I believe this to be true. I doubt he meant to the same level of investment but I do believe that £10-£20m would have been invested in the playing side during the next two windows, as well as any cash brought in from our outgoing players. If we don't make any major signings and only get a couple of loanees in during the current window, I will believe that to suggest that Randy doesn't have total confidence in the ability of Houllier. Therefore, I would expect him to be sacked close season unless he manages to turn the season around and get that 12th place or higher finish that he believes we are capable of.

A draw would be very annoying to be honest. I would rather we have lost the Chelsea game and win against Sunderland as it would be an extra point for us. The fans just need to be patient tonight as this is a massive game for us with the position we now find ourselves in. Lose this and we go into the Blues game under real pressure, especially given the two matches that follow! If the fans stay patient and don't get on the players backs we should be ok.

I just hope that everyone gets behind the players and the manager tonight. Any negativity will make the players nervous and play into the hands of the opposition. It's going to be a tough game and we all need to be patient. If we lose this one they are going to be really nervous in the game against Blues and we definitely cannot afford to lose that one. I do think that would be the final straw for the fans and things might just go downhill rapidly if we did lose the next two.

The lad was quality today. yeah he got skinned a few times but who wouldn't playing their first senior game at left back against both Anelka and Malouda? Like I said in another thread earlier. Warnock would never have been in the position to get that block in that led to our penalty and there is no way whatsoever he would have been far post to score the equaliser at the end! i can certainly forgive Clark being skinned a few times when he plays like that.

Houllier got one thing wrong for me today and that was leaving Gabby on for too long after he signalled he wanted to come off. You could see him hobbling outside of the area when they equalised. Maybe a replacement would have made a difference, maybe not. Just think a sub should have been made sooner. The above is the only downside for me with regards to Houllier today. he got everything else spot on. Playing Cuellar at right back instead of Lichaj is something I have called for in recent weeks. It gave us more solidity and the fact that Cole was ineffective was testimony to the way Carlos played, albeit with the help of a disciplined display from Downing. Malouda moved over to the right also and gave Clark the runaround a few times but otherwise Clark was quality today. Scoring one and helped win the penalty with a blokced clearance. We just looked more solid all round. The only other thing i would have liked to see is Downing and Gabby swap sides from time to time. I recall the 2-1 victory over them at Villa Park last season where Gabby went wide right and totally nullified the threat of Ashley Cole. I reckon he would has scared the shit out of them today if he played out there. Simply because of the amount of space he would have had to work in. Well done Gerrard. Your team selection was great today. Well done for being man enough to allow Dunne back into the team. That is the type of performance he can give when fit and hopefully bygones are bygones and he can stay and get back to the way he played for us last season!

The one thing I forgot to mention was the piss poor refereeing today. We made 13 fouls and had 7 booked yet Chelsea make 20 fouls and get 2 booked? The ref's first half incompetence hindered our ability to challenge hard in the second half and was probably the reason for the Chelsea fight back. Oh, and am I the only person who thinks Essien is lucky to have not seen red today? Could have been booked for the foul on NRC that led to our pen. Should have been booked for a foul on Ash close to half time and then should have been booked again for a foul in the second half.

**** awesome display from the lads today. they made some silly mistakes at time but they showed a lot more guts and courage today than they have in a long time. Friedel didn't deserve to ship in 3 today. He was far better than that. Cuellar was outstanding for me today. He never gave Cole a sniff and Malouda switched wings for most of the game, which I think was testimony to the way Cuellar played. Man of the match for me. Collins was better but still at fault for a couple of the Chelsea opportunities, especially the penalty which was clearly his fault. Dunne was back to his best today. He was caught under the flight of the ball for drogba's goal but that apart he was everywhere. Clark was class today. He was caught out of position 3 or 4 times during the game but that was only to play from Anelka and malouda who are top draw players. He more than made up for it with his battling in the lead up to our penalty and the header to draw level at the end. Downing did a great job on the right, helping Carlos keep Malouda and Cole at bay. His delivery wasn't always the best today but he did get in a great cross for Heskey's goal. Reo-Coker gave his all today. He got stuck and tried to break up play and burst forward at every opportunity. He tired towards the end but still looked up for the battle. Petrov was just like NRC. He gave his all and played very well in the centre of midfield. The yellow cards for those two meant they were always walking a tightrope but they managed to keep their discipline and still make things difficult for Chelsea in the second half. Young played well but looked to be suffering from injury at different spells of the game. I am still not convinced he is the man to play behind the striker but he gave it everything today and did his best to drive the team forward. Finished the penalty really well. Gabby did a great job of tracking back wide left and nullifying the threat. He got injured late on and should've been replaced before chelsea scored. He ran his socks off today and looked a threat when we broke forward. Heskey was awesome for us today. He did everything you could ask from a lone striker and put himself about all afternoon. Got a deserved goal and and was close to being my man of the match. Albrighton was clumsy for their 3rd. He had an easy pass but tried to keep possession and lost out. More than made up for it with the cross for the equaliser though. Houllier made a great team selection today. He went with experience and it paid off for him big time. He made the decision to take Lichaj out and put in a more experienced defender in Cuellar who played out of his skin. Clark came in at right back and was quality. he got skinned a few times but he was up against top class opposition in his first senior game at left back. He still looked better than the previous occupant of that position and hopefully he will stay there for the remainder of the season. I also think it was a great move by the manager to bring back Dunne. He was immense for most of the game and I am glad to see that the manager let bygones be bygones and played a fit again Dunney today. The only criticism I would have of Houllier today was not replacing Gabby when he got injured prior to the leveller. He signalled that he was injured and wanted to be replaced and this should have happened earlier. I am not saying it would have prevented the goal but at least we may have had someone running back into the box to help out rather than have Gabby hobbling just outside the area! All in all a great performance today. I fancied us to get something before the game as soon as I saw the team selection. The lads put in a solid performance and one they should take a lot of heart from. The fight was there again and that's all I ask for as a fan. I would also like to say how proud I was to see Randy running down the stairs to assault Paul Faulkner when we scored. That is what we want to see from people at our club Randy - keep it up!!!!!!!

Randy's celebration was **** brilliant Deadly Doug was sat behind Faulkner and he laughed and applauded Randy when he jumped on him lol. First class support Randy, keep it up son!!

The ref is a total **** moron. Not a partial, slight, hint at, bit of, but a TOTAL **** MORON!!!! Come on the Villa boys. I said it earlier, we look a stronger side without so many kids in and they are playing much better. Dunne is immense today and so are the likes of NRC and Heskey. Clark has been quality at left back and Cuellar also at right back. The guys are good value for their lead and there is no luck about it. All we need is discipline now to see it through but I am sure the ref will do his best to help those cockney twinks out!

This is a much better line up today. I am happy for Cuellar to play RB to Clark to come in at LB as he cannot be any worse than Warnock has been recently. The right side of the Chelski team is nowhere near as strong as the left either so it is Cuellar who should be in for the trickier afternoon. I think it was a good decision to leave out Lichaj because he would have been up against it today. I just hope we don't play as a 4-4-2. I would like to see Gabby drop into the hole behind Heskey. MON always used to play them the other way around which was wrong in my opinion. Surely it is better to have Heskey up top trying to hold it up for Gabby to run on to? That way Gabby will be running at CB's with pace and that would scare the shit out of the likes of Terry and the new guy Bruma! Come on the Villa. I am well up for this now

This is basically my point too Paul. I liked the thought of a new scouting system and all of the nice contacts to tap up abroad so we can cherry pick some younger foreign players on the cheap. I also like the thought of building a programme whereby we move our players through from the youth team to the first team ala Barca and Arsenal. truth is, we are seeing that happen right now with the young lads that have come through and that was before Houllier came here! i guess we are looking for better quality kids to come through in 5 or 6 years time and i get that. What I don't like is the "let's do it all now" approach that Houllier seems to have taken. Such drastic changes were never going to go down well. Obviously the next generation of players will buy into that but firstly we need to get through this season without being relegated and without the players on his side it is going to be very difficult to do that IMO. His mistake as surely been making too many changes too soon. maybe he should have brought in a couple for now and then get rid of the players who he thought wouldn't be able to fit in to the new ways in the next couple of transfer windows. The other issue is the funding of new players. MON spent a hell of a lot of money on the players we have at our disposal. How much will more skillful players cost? Randy will have to splash the cash if he wants pretty free-flowing football at Villa Park in the immediate future, that's for sure. The one other thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned is, what happens if the new arrivals also decide that they don't like the style of Houllier's management? where the hell does that leave us?

Hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it hey! Right now Houllier's appointment is looking awful. Turned a top 6 team into relegation candidates with a third of a season in charge. Yet when we got him i actually thought he was the best available at that time. I will say this. If Randy, and the rest of the people running the club, knew of the player power and the troublemaking going on behind the scenes before they made their appointment, then maybe they went for Houllier because of his reputation of setting strict guidelines to follow. Maybe they knew he would introduce stricter rules such as moving local to the club, more training sessions, a more intense fitness regime etc. If so, surely they are as much to blame as Houllier for our decline this season? Did they really think that the same bunch of players would be happy with the drastic changes? I mean come on, who is going to be happy with that when they had it so comfortable before? Can you imagine going to Stephen Ireland and saying "look Stevie son. I know you have a multi-million pounds purpose built mansion in the Manchester area but I need you to stop living there and move closer to the club. Bodymoor Heath is close to the Sutton area so we could try to fix you up with a nice little property developer for you to try to replicate your mansion in the Four Oaks or Little Aston area!" It's ok changing things around but surely it is best to do it gradually, not drop a huge H-bomb on the club and get us relegated a result of it!

We desperately need Le Arse to give the chavs from SHA a ass-kicking tonight. I bet Houllier is ont he phone to Arsene Whinger right now begging him to play a full strength side and help save his job.

Seems like the reality of our league position has sunk in and it's now become all hands on deck Trent! I see this move like this. Houllier is having trouble getting the players to play ball and get on his side so he brings K-Mac back into the fold to try to win the players over due to their good relationships with K-Mac. Whether it works or not is a different matter though.